Re: bib problems

Re: bib problems

[Robert Blackstone]

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:10 PM,  Mojca Miklavec
<mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> Send ntg-context mailing list submissions to
>
> I have a tiny feature request.
>
> I would like to have a separate "bibliography" for, say, list of
> figures. Basically all I ask for is the ability to have a separate
> "named" bibliography as opposed to a single list.

I too would be very happy with the possibility to produce a
Bibliography with various sections. In my case separate sections would
be needed for Manuscript Sources and Early printed versions, where the
data concern mostly Libraries or Museums and things like catalogue
numbers and shelf marks, and for Music (with Composer instead of
Author and the possibility to indicate the whereabouts of manuscripts
or early prints, and/or the name of the copyist).
Incidentally, there must be many others with similar wishes, for in
the past few years I have seen this topic several times on this list.

Best regards,
Robert Blackstone
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Re: bib problems

[Matija Šuklje]

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Dne sreda 8. decembra 2010 ob 10:08:19 je Robert Blackstone napisal(a):
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:10 PM,  Mojca Miklavec
> 
> <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Send ntg-context mailing list submissions to
> > 
> > I have a tiny feature request.
> > 
> > I would like to have a separate "bibliography" for, say, list of
> > figures. Basically all I ask for is the ability to have a separate
> > "named" bibliography as opposed to a single list.
> 
> I too would be very happy with the possibility to produce a
> Bibliography with various sections.

+1 on that.

I would need to separate it by type of medium — monographies, articles, links 
etc.


Cheers,
Matija

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Re: bib problems

[Thomas Schmitz]

On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 11:47:09 +0100
  Matija Šuklje <matija@suklje.name> wrote:
> Dne sreda 8. decembra 2010 ob 10:08:19 je Robert 
>Blackstone napisal(a):
>> On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:10 PM,  Mojca Miklavec
>> 
>> <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

>> > I have a tiny feature request.
>> > 
>> > I would like to have a separate "bibliography" for, 
>>say, list of
>> > figures. Basically all I ask for is the ability to 
>>have a separate
>> > "named" bibliography as opposed to a single list.
>> 
>> I too would be very happy with the possibility to 
>>produce a
>> Bibliography with various sections.
> 
> +1 on that.
> 
> I would need to separate it by type of medium — 
>monographies, articles, links 
> etc.
> 
This is not a bug report, so I won't include it in my test 
files, but just to comment on this: for a project I'm 
doing with ConTeXt, I will need to the ability to have a 
bibliography with several sections. I've discussed this 
with Hans, and he will write code to support filtering by 
keywords. We haven't yet discussed the interface etc., but 
this is something that will come in the spring at the very 
latest. Mojca, this is not the same as your original 
suggestion, but this looks like it would take care of the 
two "+1" messages, right?

Thomas
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Re: bib problems

[Robert Blackstone]

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:00 PM,  <thomas.schmitz@uni-bonn.de> wrote:

> I've begun summarizing the bibliography problems. Could you all see if your particular problem is mentioned here? If I missed something, please send your test files to the list or to me, please use the sample.bib which is now included in the minimals, and please make the test cases as short as possible.

Hi,
I have another problem: the ELECTRONIC publication, hh2010, never gets
returned or printed, even with \placepublications[criterium=all].
I noted however that ConTeXt somehow is aware of this item since it
leaves an open space where this item should have been.
This is my test file, identical to that of example 1 except for the
addition of \cite[hh2010].

\setuppublications[state=start,refcommand=authoryear]
\setupbibtex[database=sample]

\starttext
\section{Test}
This \cite[hh2010a]

and that \cite[Eijkhout1991]

and also this one \cite[hh2010].

\section{References}
\placepublications[criterium=all]
\stoptext

Best regards,
Robert Blackstone
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bib problems

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

All,

I've begun summarizing the bibliography problems. Could you all see if your particular problem is mentioned here? If I missed something, please send your test files to the list or to me, please use the sample.bib which is now included in the minimals, and please make the test cases as short as possible. 

Hans and Taco, one general remark: one thing that is confusing is that the key/value pair "criterium=XXX" is present for the \setuppublications and for the \setuppublicationlist and for the \placepublications command, yet seems to do slightly different things in each. Maybe that's a place where the interface should be changed? 

Here's what I have so far:

% Example 1, posted in a slightly different form by "Curiouslearn" on
% 2010-11-25: Hagen 2010c is not quoted and should not be in the list of
% references. On 2010-11-26, Mathieu Boespflug made a further observation on
% the original testfile which I can't reproduce because it's too complex. Can
% you show the effect by modifying this simple case?

\setuppublications[state=start,refcommand=authoryear]
\setupbibtex[database=sample]

\starttext
\section{Test}
This \cite[hh2010a]

and that \cite[Eijkhout1991]

\section{References}
\placepublications[criterium=all]
\stoptext 

% Example 2: a spurious entry [4] in the list of references.

\setuppublications[state=start,alternative=num]
\setupbibtex[database=sample]

\starttext
\section{Test}
This \cite[hh2010a]

and that \cite[Eijkhout1991]

\section{References}
\placepublications[criterium=all]
\stoptext 

% Example 3, posted by Mojca on 2010-11-29: horizontal spacing of list of
% references is insufficient

\setuppublications
    [alternative=num]

\setuppublicationlayout[web]{%
    {\sc url}: \inserturl{}{}{}%
}

\dorecurse{1200}{\startpublication[k=a\recurselevel,t=web]
\biburl{http://pragma-ade.nl}\stoppublication}

\starttext
\placepublications[criterium=all]
\stoptext 

% Example 4, posted by Charles Doherty on 2010-10-20: no references are typeset

\setuppublications[criterium=all,numbering=no]

\setupbibtex[database=sample,sort=author]

\starttext

\section{References}

\placepublications

\stoptext 

Please add further short examples; I will aggregate and send everything to Hans.


Thomas
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Re: bib problems

[Mojca Miklavec]

I have a tiny feature request.

I would like to have a separate "bibliography" for, say, list of
figures. Basically all I ask for is the ability to have a separate
"named" bibliography as opposed to a single list.

But maybe I need to elaborate a bit more before sending request. It
makes no sense to implement it in the wrong and unstatisfactory way.

... Just to mention it before I forget.

Mojca
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Re: bib problems

[Hans Hagen]

On 7-12-2010 3:26, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> I have a tiny feature request.
>
> I would like to have a separate "bibliography" for, say, list of
> figures. Basically all I ask for is the ability to have a separate
> "named" bibliography as opposed to a single list.

no big deal in mkiv i guess

> But maybe I need to elaborate a bit more before sending request. It
> makes no sense to implement it in the wrong and unstatisfactory way.
>
> .... Just to mention it before I forget.

so how would that look at the input end? an extra key?

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Re: bib problems

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 16:01, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> On 7-12-2010 3:26, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>
>> I have a tiny feature request.
>>
>> I would like to have a separate "bibliography" for, say, list of
>> figures. Basically all I ask for is the ability to have a separate
>> "named" bibliography as opposed to a single list.
>
> no big deal in mkiv i guess
>
>> But maybe I need to elaborate a bit more before sending request. It
>> makes no sense to implement it in the wrong and unstatisfactory way.
>>
>> .... Just to mention it before I forget.
>
> so how would that look at the input end? an extra key?

I should think about it a bit. But just a few possibilities ... At the
moment I use:
    \startpublication
      [k=xy,
       t=xy]
      ....
    \stoppublication

Options are:

1.)
\startpublicationlist[images] or \startpublications[images] or ...
    \startpublication[k=xy,t=xy]
      ....
    \stoppublication
...
\stoppublicationlist

2.)
    \startpublication[k=xy,t=xy,list=images]
      ....
    \stoppublication

3.)
    \startpublication[images][k=xy,t=xy]
      ....
    \stoppublication

And then
    \placepublications[list=images]

Then \cite would work in exactly the same way (one would not need to
provide any extra key to cite itself).

But one would need to think of a proper model to number the
references. That is: it would have to be configurable to be able to
either number images with roman instead of arabic numerals (or with a,
b, c, ...), or to prepend something, like [img1], [img2], [img3]
instead of [1], [2], [3]. Or simply let the user do "in
\cite{figure}[xy]", or to number images with numbers bigger than other
references. For example:

Books:
[1]
[2]
[3]
Articles:
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7]
Images:
[8]
[9]

or

Books:
[1]
[2]
[3]
Articles:
[a1]
[a2]
[a3]
[a3]
Images:
[i1]
[i2]

or any other user-configurable option for numbering ...

However, having a properly designed model is better than having some
ad-hoc solution that turns out not flexible enough or clumsy to use
and buggy later on ...

And yes, something that would allow splitting references across
sections could just as well be used for this. It just needs to be
designed properly ... (But section-based bibliography could work
without any extra key, right?)

And no, please don't count it as bug report. I just mentioned it
because Hans wanted to have "a big bunch of everything at a single
place".

I suggest to reopen the topic and create exact specification before
the actual implementation.

Mojca
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Re: bib problems

[Thomas Schmitz]

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 14:18:20 +0100
  Mojca Miklavec <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> I should think about it a bit. But just a few 
>possibilities ... At the
> moment I use:
>    \startpublication
>      [k=xy,
>       t=xy]
>      ....
>    \stoppublication
> 
> Options are:

When we think from the bibtex side, it would boil down to 
processing the "keyword=" key (which is already there in 
the bibtex specification). You could then order your 
"publications" with terms such as "keyword=image" 
"keyword=article" etc.

> 
> 1.)
> \startpublicationlist[images] or 
>\startpublications[images] or ...
>    \startpublication[k=xy,t=xy]
>      ....
>    \stoppublication
> ...
> \stoppublicationlist
> 
> 2.)
>    \startpublication[k=xy,t=xy,list=images]
>      ....
>    \stoppublication
> 
> 3.)
>    \startpublication[images][k=xy,t=xy]
>      ....
>    \stoppublication
> 
> And then
>    \placepublications[list=images]
> 
> Then \cite would work in exactly the same way (one would 
>not need to
> provide any extra key to cite itself).
> 
> But one would need to think of a proper model to number 
>the
> references. That is: it would have to be configurable to 
>be able to
> either number images with roman instead of arabic 
>numerals (or with a,
> b, c, ...), or to prepend something, like [img1], 
>[img2], [img3]
> instead of [1], [2], [3]. Or simply let the user do "in
> \cite{figure}[xy]", or to number images with numbers 
>bigger than other
> references. For example:
> 
> Books:
> [1]
> [2]
> [3]
> Articles:
> [4]
> [5]
> [6]
> [7]
> Images:
> [8]
> [9]
> 
> or
> 
> Books:
> [1]
> [2]
> [3]
> Articles:
> [a1]
> [a2]
> [a3]
> [a3]
> Images:
> [i1]
> [i2]
> 
> or any other user-configurable option for numbering ...
> 
> However, having a properly designed model is better than 
>having some
> ad-hoc solution that turns out not flexible enough or 
>clumsy to use
> and buggy later on ...

One syntax would be

\placepublications[filter=image,prefix={img.},option=continue,numberconversion=romannumbers]

> 
> And yes, something that would allow splitting references 
>across
> sections could just as well be used for this. It just 
>needs to be
> designed properly ... (But section-based bibliography 
>could work
> without any extra key, right?)
> 
> And no, please don't count it as bug report. I just 
>mentioned it
> because Hans wanted to have "a big bunch of everything 
>at a single
> place".
> 
> I suggest to reopen the topic and create exact 
>specification before
> the actual implementation.

Yes, we can discuss it (on or off list) when it will be 
implemented.

Thomas
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Re: bib problems

[Florian Wobbe]

On Dec 7, 2010, at 15:26 , Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> I have a tiny feature request.
> 
> I would like to have a separate "bibliography" for, say, list of
> figures. Basically all I ask for is the ability to have a separate
> "named" bibliography as opposed to a single list.

Hi,

I would also like to support the ability to put an arbitrary number of reference lists in different locations inside one document. I once had a report that had individual reference lists at the end of several sections.

I'm not sure about the best way of implementing this. E.g. how do I select which publications are in which list. One could define a special key as suggested by Hans, or select by existing BibTeX keys like author, year, publisher etc. Another possibility would be to put all references which are in a specific bib-file in one list (when you have multiple bib-files).

Also, as a feature request/bug report I repeat an earlier message:

In BibTeX databases ranges of numbers are usually listed with a single dash (e.g. 3-7) for compatibility reasons. Therefore the standard BibTeX styles convert a single dash in page numbers or range of numbers to a double dash (3--7). It would be great to have this functionality for \volume \issue \pages in context as well.

Thanks!
Florian

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bib problems

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

Hi all,

the last days have brought a couple of bug reports on bibliographies in ConTeXt. I will try and create a number of examples so Hans can test and debug. In order to facilitate the creation of minimal examples for all users, we have a couple of suggestions:

1. There is now a dedicated page for bibliography support on the wiki; unsurprisingly, it's at http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Bibliographies. For the time being, this page is just a skeleton; you are all invited to contribute.

2. The page contains a link to a sample bib file. This file will be part of the main distribution (and hence of the minimals) under context/tex/texmf-context/bibtex/bib/sample.bib. I will send this file to Hans. At the same time, it is meant as a bibliography for ConTeXt related publications. So if you build minimal examples, please try with this file first. If the error you are reporting is triggered by a certain publication type which is not yet represented in the sample file, please modify the file on your disk, but *remember to add these modifications to the file on the wiki* (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/sample_bib) and drop me a line! If you want to add further ConTeXt related publications, feel free to do so! I will send Hans and Mojca updated versions of this file which I'll pick 
 up on the wiki.

3. As you know, priority in development is given to mkiv. The bib module for mkii was written by Taco, and as far as I understood him, it is quite unlikely that he will have the time to do extensive work on it.

Later today, I will try and coordinate the bug reports I can still find in an example. Please add your reports as well.

All best

Thomas
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