From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/16746 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Sergio Correia Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: RFC: Designing Logo of Pandoc Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:14:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <144500db-fdc8-44fe-99b9-6dab9f85b41a@googlegroups.com> References: <87d1fjbhng.fsf@espresso.zeitkraut.de> <8f9805be-9ec0-4808-8e82-efecf8f0b813@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_358_1359198095.1484864079917" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1484864088 12630 195.159.176.226 (19 Jan 2017 22:14:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 22:14:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: albert+pandoc-9EawChwDxG8hFhg+JK9F0w@public.gmane.org To: pandoc-discuss Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBCOYT6WP5QGRBUPUQTCAKGQEM54V4UI-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 23:14:42 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-oi0-f63.google.com ([209.85.218.63]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cUKya-0002IE-DD for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 23:14:36 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-oi0-f63.google.com with SMTP id u143sf19699025oif.1 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:14:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=VZ65592AXeuFp7Qd3+hEkll1eUUKmTgz1qkMmCQM8x0=; b=PP5fVBcS0vgVlDE8C8m0keZtpX7DaU0+//+oxUIqXSozJNd0R22XEcPWmamqSHpmEl F9r1oLK+fgQZrz7U1DxgBcByCVh6YARzF5ZqxIKu6gHdssI3L7N8E9XcCx8/4dZ/eeH1 3q4GyZwSGaF8KwYc0uD6RNRSQBlTq1zfTakL40vJl2pCtXOh0ttTKIyj8uL7+yHiOqZF /b4fpf0mGOQKaCVrgYEUWJPDMKF2BrLgaRNakTJioXxGSrbv2MbYt5hyTW/uEPaB5b7x ID0KaA+FImBrh6UqIhngIz/8o42+c1Mrkgw2vXNeCBDTJnUkzcLR/QtpaZ2KE73ai5Sd NFEw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=VZ65592AXeuFp7Qd3+hEkll1eUUKmTgz1qkMmCQM8x0=; b=Jw2zG8h/v/NrcuxqK/iK/4iSfv4kx3/D4+cry/oxphanFhW/kxxIV2EwAl06WxahKT 02hcbdbh9VC1JyTxlq2EpIY4RErzjz9YNJ0iQ26SdZ1HmAJ5hJswbpB8aRnHK+35Kg68 Gu605QAJQ8irGHT2j0niwtmt1wV0YaxdrBZxCfguK+K6SBZGpcFT1tDbPQYuX6cMu8fP hHRFS6YZp/UJ+9jX6YyNDdvrgOoxKJgufUCqjD8E7VXWPrXn1QvBbuAeZmtwP/RCSeKZ E8iknevyA5qAdczITqTZ8DcDcFgGtnL4MBtUnhbSRBj6rMI52fiFcEDkznTSjlpbGmvo FYkg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=VZ65592AXeuFp7Qd3+hEkll1eUUKmTgz1qkMmCQM8x0=; b=acV4iylgmVzS0KiHmvniIIROalUE3uWmuBlGzgxmRVttg7DwOJT7X66Tmt298CJ48a QeYWaNByrG8b7x9qj5bnMnqu7HjVa+gt34v4dB0UnjTChpch01cNTxazpeU1aqbYd5QA iXxJdZ0sj+kcitfIkF6V1bU/LYl+m/ZEQle+GtJm9zlLxdft5lzyO81oCBO3OXC7mnzK svMBUW8ETqemcXd8fuM2C1/Nb3ZQH5JVa2e3g9grTBralskei7N1z/V/3XZBMn75caZP LqDnWWf7WO1QhSm/FoxnNJttXRAbe0ia7CE9j5Tc8YcnVslgODmpry29Z9guDG6Q1uuS ChlA== Original-Sender: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJZWQBB1IJPaWWkeOOgXkKbn+38QdUITrlzyRHkBM6J3+3/oBkUpgpdbo6N3D7bVg== X-Received: by 10.157.52.34 with SMTP id v31mr1289331otb.9.1484864081312; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:14:41 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 10.157.45.3 with SMTP id v3ls1066054ota.44.gmail; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:14:40 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.157.36.193 with SMTP id z59mr1295136ota.1.1484864080824; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:14:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8f9805be-9ec0-4808-8e82-efecf8f0b813-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> X-Original-Sender: sergio.correia-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.pandoc:16746 Archived-At: ------=_Part_358_1359198095.1484864079917 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_359_1583082252.1484864079918" ------=_Part_359_1583082252.1484864079918 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The octagon looks cool but it might be hard to recall what was it about=20 (e.g. if you have that as an icon in your desktop). BP: I like your design but the two lower documents make me turn my neck=20 every time I see them. I think it would be better if the three documents=20 appear standing up (maybe stacked). I would also prefer if the arrows and= =20 the \all symbol to be mutually exclusive. Either works. I'm also not a=20 designer, and I doubt there are many designers around here, which is a=20 problem :) On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 2:09:26 PM UTC-5, Kolen Cheung wrote: > > (I included the image below so one need not to click into it. But let me= =20 > know if it troubles you and I will use links next time.) > <#8f9805be-9ec0-4808-8e82-efecf8f0b813-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org_>More on the=20 > rmarkdown =E2=80=9Clogo=E2=80=9D=20 > =20 > -=20 > =20 > are you sure it is a logo? Because when I go to their website=20 > , it is nowhere to be seen. And a search= =20 > on =E2=80=9Crmarkdown=E2=80=9D logo on Google Image=20 > =20 > only have this on a few results. Would it just be an illustration (say= =20 > people showing on presentations) on what rmarkdown is? > -=20 > =20 > What I said earlier does not mean that the image [image: PNG] would be= =20 > a good logo design (it might very well not be a logo): it is too busy,= and=20 > would get lost when viewed in small scale/far away. > -=20 > =20 > The image above and the octagon concept I had earlier on is basically= =20 > the same concept. I think this is also a good illustration that when= =20 > viewing any of the concepts here, we should think of the abstract form= of=20 > it, rather than sticking to the actual manifestation of the original= =20 > concept. (e.g. in pop songs, the demo and the final product sounds rea= lly=20 > different, but whoever is screening the demos will need to look pass i= ts=20 > current form and visualize the potentials in the concept) > =20 > <#8f9805be-9ec0-4808-8e82-efecf8f0b813-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org_>Judging criteria= ?=20 > > I think this last point above cannot be stressed enough especially if=20 > there would be some sort of poll. The judging criteria should not be bias= ed=20 > towards how finished the concepts was, but focus on the potential it has= =20 > (because none of them are finished products). So it might be beneficial t= o=20 > have 2 polls where the 1st one is for selecting candidates for refinement= .=20 > The would be the main difficulties of a poll, and personally I think it= =20 > would be easier that the first screening is done by @jgm alone (let say= =20 > @jgm gave us the 3 concepts he likes most, and as a community we push the= =20 > design of all 3 concepts, and then poll for 1). > <#8f9805be-9ec0-4808-8e82-efecf8f0b813-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org_>Another idea=20 > > Another idea is from the diagram in Pandoc - About pandoc=20 > : [image: diagram] (which is =E2=80=9Cfractal-ish=E2= =80=9D). When I=20 > was a newbies in pandoc, every time I visited pandoc.org I was fascinated= =20 > by that diagram. That diagram points from formats to formats (so not havi= ng=20 > a central =E2=80=9CAST=E2=80=9D element). This sparks a concept that invo= lves something=20 > like (just Google search results) [image: this] or [image: this] on an=20 > octagon (I might draw one when I have time. Others can use this idea too)= . > > And I hope this last paragraphs shows that I=E2=80=99m impartial to havin= g a=20 > central =E2=80=9CAST=E2=80=9D or not. But I think a key to creative proce= sses is not to ban=20 > ideas too early. It is like one=E2=80=99s drawing a mind map. When you=E2= =80=99re=20 > brain-storming, a certain path might seem a dead-end. But if you cross ou= t=20 > that path too early, you might have eliminated a solution prematurely. On= e=20 > would just ignored that path, until you brainstorm something worth pursui= ng=20 > there. And in the end, how good is a design if it isn=E2=80=99t impressiv= e enough=20 > for people to ask the philosophy behind it? > > On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 12:47:49 AM UTC-8, Sergio Correia wrote: > > Personally, I wouldn't use a logo chosen without the approval of John;=20 >> would feel a bit rude tbh. That said, we can vote on proposals and pick = our=20 >> favorites, in order to frame the discussion. >> >> >> About the logo: >> >> >> - We should pick a logo that denotes *what* pandoc does, not *how *it= =20 >> does it. Users (rightly) don't care that pandoc builds an abstract sy= ntax=20 >> tree, so that should not be in the logo. (This is also what BP stated= in=20 >> his Dec16 post) >> - At its core, pandoc converts documents. It converts *.md* into *.ht= ml=20 >> and so on*. A quick google image search tells us that *the* canonical= =20 >> icon for conversion is the circle arrow symbol (kinda like the recycl= ing=20 >> arrow). example:=20 >> http://cracksfree.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/avs-document-convert= er_98327.jpg >> - For documents, any stack would do:=20 >> http://images.clipartpanda.com/document-clipart-082004-green-grunge-c= lipart-icon-business-document4.png >> >> It's also interesting to see how the rmarkdown folks look at this: >> >> http://rmarkdown.rstudio.com/images/RMarkdownOutputFormats.png >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 3:03:55 AM UTC-5, Albert Krewinkel wrot= e: >>> >>> =E8=97=A4=E5=8E=9F=E7=94=B1=E6=9D=A5 writes:=20 >>> >>> > Then, as some people say, we need commitment of logo in this group=20 >>> (not only in=20 >>> > this thread).=20 >>> >=20 >>> > I like the idea to release the final logo in the release date of=20 >>> Pandoc 2.0.=20 >>> > Because meaning (like a story or literature) is important to be=20 >>> impressively=20 >>> > remembered for people.=20 >>> >>> It seems clear to me that jgm is the only person who can choose an=20 >>> official pandoc logo.=20 >>> >>> However, we, as an community, can still vote on a logo. It won't be=20 >>> official pandoc logo, but the community logo which can be used to brand= =20 >>> projects build with or around pandoc. Of course that logo could be=20 >>> changed as soon as an official logo is chosen.=20 >>> >>> My suggestion would be to wait a little while longer before doing any= =20 >>> voting, e.g. until the first of March.=20 >>> >> =E2=80=8B > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= pandoc-discuss/144500db-fdc8-44fe-99b9-6dab9f85b41a%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_359_1583082252.1484864079918 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The octagon looks cool but it might be hard to recall what= was it about (e.g. if you have that as an icon in your desktop).

<= /div>
BP: I like your design but the two lower documents make me turn m= y neck every time I see them. I think it would be better if the three docum= ents appear standing up (maybe stacked). I would also prefer if the arrows = and the \all symbol to be mutually exclusive. Either works. I'm also no= t a designer, and I doubt there are many designers around here, which is a = problem :)

On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 2:09:26 PM UTC-5, Kolen = Cheung wrote:
=

(I included the image be= low so one need not to click into it. But let me know if it troubles you an= d I will use links next time.)

More on the rmarkdown =E2=80=9Clogo=E2=80= =9D

  • are you sure it is a logo? Because when I go to = their = website, it is nowhere to be seen. And a search on =E2=80=9Crmarkdown=E2=80=9D logo on Google Image only have this o= n a few results. Would it just be an illustration (say people showing on pr= esentations) on what rmarkdown is?

  • What I said earlier does not mean that the image= 3D"PNG" would be a good logo design (it mig= ht very well not be a logo): it is too busy, and would get lost when viewed= in small scale/far away.

  • The image above and the octagon concept I had ea= rlier on is basically the same concept. I think this is also a good illustr= ation that when viewing any of the concepts here, we should think of the ab= stract form of it, rather than sticking to the actual manifestation of the = original concept. (e.g. in pop songs, the demo and the final product sounds= really different, but whoever is screening the demos will need to look pas= s its current form and visualize the potentials in the concept)

Judging criteria?

I think this last point above c= annot be stressed enough especially if there would be some sort of poll. Th= e judging criteria should not be biased towards how finished the concepts w= as, but focus on the potential it has (because none of them are finished pr= oducts). So it might be beneficial to have 2 polls where the 1st one is for= selecting candidates for refinement. The would be the main difficulties of= a poll, and personally I think it would be easier that the first screening= is done by @jgm alone (let say @jgm gave us the 3 concepts he likes most, = and as a community we push the design of all 3 concepts, and then poll for = 1).

Another idea

Another idea is from the diagra= m in Pandoc - About pandoc: = 3D"diagram" (whi= ch is =E2=80=9Cfractal-ish=E2=80=9D). When I was a newbies in pandoc, every= time I visited pandoc.org I was fa= scinated by that diagram. That diagram points from formats to formats (so n= ot having a central =E2=80=9CAST=E2=80=9D element). This sparks a concept t= hat involves something like (just Google search results) 3D"this" or 3D"this" on an octagon (I = might draw one when I have time. Others can use this idea too).

And I hope this last paragraphs= shows that I=E2=80=99m impartial to having a central =E2=80=9CAST=E2=80=9D= or not. But I think a key to creative processes is not to ban ideas too ea= rly. It is like one=E2=80=99s drawing a mind map. When you=E2=80=99re brain= -storming, a certain path might seem a dead-end. But if you cross out that = path too early, you might have eliminated a solution prematurely. One would= just ignored that path, until you brainstorm something worth pursuing ther= e. And in the end, how good is a design if it isn=E2=80=99t impressive enou= gh for people to ask the philosophy behind it?

On Thursday, January 19, 2017 a= t 12:47:49 AM UTC-8, Sergio Correia wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't use a = logo chosen without the approval of John; would feel a bit rude tbh. That s= aid, we can vote on proposals and pick our favorites, in order to frame the= discussion.


About the logo:
It's also interesting to see how the rmarkdown folks= look at this:

http:/= /rmarkdown.rstudio.com/images/RMarkdownOutputFormats.png
<= /div>





On Thursday,= January 19, 2017 at 3:03:55 AM UTC-5, Albert Krewinkel wrote:
=E8=97=A4=E5=8E=9F=E7=94=B1=E6=9D=A5 <sky.y...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Then, as some people say, we need commitment of logo in this group= (not only in
> this thread).=20
>
> I like the idea to release the final logo in the release date of P= andoc 2.0.
> Because meaning (like a story or literature) is important to be im= pressively
> remembered for people.=20

It seems clear to me that jgm is the only person who can choose an
official pandoc logo.

However, we, as an community, can still vote on a logo. It won't be
official pandoc logo, but the community logo which can be used to brand
projects build with or around pandoc. =C2=A0Of course that logo could b= e
changed as soon as an official logo is chosen.

My suggestion would be to wait a little while longer before doing any
voting, e.g. until the first of March.

=E2=80=8B

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;pandoc-discuss" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pand= oc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/= msgid/pandoc-discuss/144500db-fdc8-44fe-99b9-6dab9f85b41a%40googlegroups.co= m.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
------=_Part_359_1583082252.1484864079918-- ------=_Part_358_1359198095.1484864079917--