From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/371 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John MacFarlane Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: citeproc updates Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 10:02:33 -0800 Message-ID: <20101108180233.GA17344@protagoras.phil.berkeley.edu> References: <20101027132010.GB6998@eeepc.istitutocolli.org> <4CD1F297.2020609@trizeps.ch> <20101104073606.GA17293@protagoras.phil.berkeley.edu> <20101104114801.GF10392@eeepc.unitn.it> <20101104160627.GE25944@protagoras.phil.berkeley.edu> <1df2d027-9220-45b1-8126-1b0965bd7836@w38g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4CD7BDD0.1040408@trizeps.ch> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1289239511 30498 80.91.229.12 (8 Nov 2010 18:05:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 18:05:11 +0000 (UTC) To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncCO38oIeaEBDG9-DmBBoENAj4FA-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Mon Nov 08 19:05:06 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-pw0-f58.google.com ([209.85.160.58]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PFW5X-0006Cs-Kz for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org; 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contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Original-Sender: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Disposition: inline Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.pandoc:371 Archived-At: +++ Nathan Gass [Nov 08 10 10:07 ]: > On 05.11.10 01:41, Frank Bennett wrote: > >Hi, all. I'm a colleague of Andrea and Bruce on the CSL/citeproc side > >(as the author of citeproc-js), and am just now joining the > >discussion. > > > >On Nov 5, 1:06 am, John MacFarlane wrote: > > > >>(In fact, I'm still somewhat attached to my proposal to make pandoc figure out > >>automatically when to use a textual citation and when not ... does anybody > >>else like that idea?) > > > >I can offer a further use case for "textual citations" that might be > >relevant. > > > >A common citation style in China is purely numeric, using numbers for > >all references, including "textual citations". As a base example, > >suppose a text is set as follows in an author-date style: > > > > Jones (2000) says that water is wet, which has been confirmed by > >others. (Smith 1999) > > > >In the pure numeric style, this would be rendered like this (^ > >signifying superscript -- note that the "ordinary" type of reference > >is superscripted, while the "author-only" type of reference is not): > > > > Reference [1] establishes that water is wet, a finding that has been > >refined by others.^[2]^ > > > > Bibliography > > [1] John Jones, "Wetness of Water" (2000). > > [2] Samuel Smith, "Dampness of Water" (1999). > > > >In a note style, the same text would be rendered something like this: > > > > Jones^1^ establishes that water is wet, a finding that has been > >refined by others.^2^ > > > > Footnotes > > 1. "Wetness of Water" (2000). > > 2. Samuel Smith, "Dampness of Water" (1999). > > Is it possible to solve the Chinese style completely, meaning we can > generate the correct text to include in any case? The reason I ask > this, is that it changes the game a bit. > > For English, German and many other languages you can't solve textual > citations for all cases, so our support should be mostly guided by > the common case, and not strive to be the most flexible solution > (there will always be some special textual citations which have to > be written by hand). > > If the common Chinese style does not suffer from the problems of > textual citations in for example English, and can be completely > solved, then we have a strong argument for a flexible solution > handling the Chinese style in all cases. If I understood the earlier exchange with Frank and Andrea properly, we should be able to handle the Chinese style. The CSL will tell citeproc to format an "author-only" citation (now, "AuthorInText") as "Reference [n]" rather than as the author's name. John