Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Joseph Reagle]

On 04/14/2014 03:17 PM, Rintze Zelle wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Joseph Reagle <joseph.2011-T1oY19WcHSwdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> First, is there a way to *not* get the bibliography? (The notes are
>> sufficient.)
> 
> With Zotero and its word processor plugins, you always have to
> explicitly add the bibliography to the document (the CSL specification
> also doesn't require the bibliography to be rendered). Doesn't pandoc
> rely on a biblatex command to place the bibliography, or at least
> provide an option to suppress it?

I do not believe so. In the past I've had to edit the CSL myself, but
perhaps John could comment on this as an option since I know there was
some discussion of a more explicit "insert bib" type command...?

Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[John MacFarlane]

My understanding is that you can modify the CSL style to tell it not to
include a bibliography.  Whether the bibliography appears at all is a
feature of the style, just as much as how it is formatted.  A CSL expert
would have to comment further.

+++ Joseph Reagle [Apr 14 14 16:51 ]:
>On 04/14/2014 03:17 PM, Rintze Zelle wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Joseph Reagle <joseph.2011-T1oY19WcHSwdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>> First, is there a way to *not* get the bibliography? (The notes are
>>> sufficient.)
>>
>> With Zotero and its word processor plugins, you always have to
>> explicitly add the bibliography to the document (the CSL specification
>> also doesn't require the bibliography to be rendered). Doesn't pandoc
>> rely on a biblatex command to place the bibliography, or at least
>> provide an option to suppress it?
>
>I do not believe so. In the past I've had to edit the CSL myself, but
>perhaps John could comment on this as an option since I know there was
>some discussion of a more explicit "insert bib" type command...?
>
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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Joseph Reagle]

On 04/14/2014 08:44 PM, John MacFarlane wrote:
> My understanding is that you can modify the CSL style to tell it not to
> include a bibliography.  Whether the bibliography appears at all is a
> feature of the style, just as much as how it is formatted.  A CSL expert
> would have to comment further.

Elsewhere Sebastian Karcher wrote:

> not in the native CSL style - we assume that implementations allow
> users to insert a bibliography or not. But It's trivial to remove in
> the CSL style, of course, simply by deleting everthing between
> <bibliography>and </bibliography>

So it sounds like some clients permit this. If pandoc ever specifies a
way to say "insert bib here" perhaps this could be an option.

Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Rintze Zelle]

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On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 8:01:46 AM UTC-4, Joseph wrote:
>
> On 04/14/2014 08:44 PM, John MacFarlane wrote: 
> > My understanding is that you can modify the CSL style to tell it not to 
> > include a bibliography.  Whether the bibliography appears at all is a 
> > feature of the style, just as much as how it is formatted.  A CSL expert 
> > would have to comment further. 
>

For most styles, a bibliography is mandatory. E.g. citations in numeric and 
author-date styles contain very little data, and rely heavily on the 
bibliography to give the full details of the referenced items. However, 
bibliographies can be optional for note styles. At some point we had some 
Chicago Manual of Style note styles that only different in whether they had 
a bibliography defined. Since Zotero relies on explicit insertion of a 
bibliography, the CSL style variant without a bibliography was deemed 
redundant and removed from the style repository. I'd like to keep it that 
way, since having more styles makes the repository harder to maintain. 
See https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/10878/styles-for-inclusion-in-20-final/?Focus=52220#Comment_52220 
for the relevant discussion.

Rintze


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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Joseph Reagle]

On 04/15/2014 11:37 AM, Rintze Zelle wrote:
> they had a bibliography defined. Since Zotero relies on explicit 
> insertion of a bibliography, the CSL style variant without a 
> bibliography was deemed redundant and removed from the style
> repository. I'd like to keep it that way, since having more styles
> makes the repository harder to maintain. See
> https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/10878/styles-for-inclusion-in-20-final/?Focus=52220#Comment_52220
> for the relevant discussion.

Thank you for the explanation. I'll note that for folks that are using
an app that doesn't provide for this (like pandoc, presently) that means
the individual user has to maintain these no-bib style sheets
individually, which is even worse...

Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Rintze Zelle]

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On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 11:53:33 AM UTC-4, Joseph wrote:
>
> On 04/15/2014 11:37 AM, Rintze Zelle wrote: 
> > they had a bibliography defined. Since Zotero relies on explicit 
> > insertion of a bibliography, the CSL style variant without a 
> > bibliography was deemed redundant and removed from the style 
> > repository. I'd like to keep it that way, since having more styles 
> > makes the repository harder to maintain. See 
> > 
> https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/10878/styles-for-inclusion-in-20-final/?Focus=52220#Comment_52220 
> > for the relevant discussion. 
>
> Thank you for the explanation. I'll note that for folks that are using 
> an app that doesn't provide for this (like pandoc, presently) that means 
> the individual user has to maintain these no-bib style sheets 
> individually, which is even worse... 
>

I realize that. If there really isn't a way to suppress a bibliography in 
pandoc, we could revisit our position. That said, we already have 10 CMoS 
variants ( https://zotero.org/styles?q=chicago%2016th ), and having even 
more is also confusing to users, especially if the with-bib and without-bib 
versions behave the same for users of Zotero, Mendeley, and the like, with 
the exception that the no-bib version won't be able to generate a 
bibliography.

Rintze
 

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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Jesse Rosenthal]

Rintze Zelle <rintze.zelle-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 11:53:33 AM UTC-4, Joseph wrote:
>
> I realize that. If there really isn't a way to suppress a bibliography in 
> pandoc, we could revisit our position. 

Just to mention that I posted a filter to do this a week back (on
4/7/14, I believe), and have an open pull-request to allow
pandoc-citeproc to do this based on metadata. Not sure if the pull
request fits in with John's plans for pandoc-citeproc. But in either
case, I find having a bibliography I can supress with metadata without
changing the CSL is a lot handier than switching around similar
patched-up CSLs each time.

Best,
Jesse

Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[John MacFarlane]

+++ Jesse Rosenthal [Apr 15 14 12:32 ]:
>
>
>Rintze Zelle <rintze.zelle-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:
>
>> On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 11:53:33 AM UTC-4, Joseph wrote:
>>
>> I realize that. If there really isn't a way to suppress a bibliography in
>> pandoc, we could revisit our position.
>
>Just to mention that I posted a filter to do this a week back (on
>4/7/14, I believe), and have an open pull-request to allow
>pandoc-citeproc to do this based on metadata. Not sure if the pull
>request fits in with John's plans for pandoc-citeproc. But in either
>case, I find having a bibliography I can supress with metadata without
>changing the CSL is a lot handier than switching around similar
>patched-up CSLs each time.

I haven't had a chance to review the pull request yet, but it does sound
like a simple solution to the problem....

John

Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Scot Mcphee]

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How does Mendeley, or Zotero for that matter (only slightly familiar with
Zotero), care if I have a bibliography in my document or not? It's the
source of the bibliographic information, not the thing that contains the
bibliography. It's a fail at the domain level to insist on Bibliographies
in CSL when it's optional. There are journals that require note-style
inserts of references and no Bibliography. That's the reality that the
tools have to conform to. Unless there is some piece of the picture that I
don't follow properly.

regards
Scot.



*Scot Mcphee. *
*Computer programmer. Classics PhD.*
p +61 412 957414
e scot.mcphee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
w http://autonomous.org/



On 16 April 2014 02:19, Rintze Zelle <rintze.zelle-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 11:53:33 AM UTC-4, Joseph wrote:
>>
>> On 04/15/2014 11:37 AM, Rintze Zelle wrote:
>> > they had a bibliography defined. Since Zotero relies on explicit
>> > insertion of a bibliography, the CSL style variant without a
>> > bibliography was deemed redundant and removed from the style
>> > repository. I'd like to keep it that way, since having more styles
>> > makes the repository harder to maintain. See
>> > https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/10878/styles-for-
>> inclusion-in-20-final/?Focus=52220#Comment_52220
>> > for the relevant discussion.
>>
>> Thank you for the explanation. I'll note that for folks that are using
>> an app that doesn't provide for this (like pandoc, presently) that means
>> the individual user has to maintain these no-bib style sheets
>> individually, which is even worse...
>>
>
> I realize that. If there really isn't a way to suppress a bibliography in
> pandoc, we could revisit our position. That said, we already have 10 CMoS
> variants ( https://zotero.org/styles?q=chicago%2016th ), and having even
> more is also confusing to users, especially if the with-bib and without-bib
> versions behave the same for users of Zotero, Mendeley, and the like, with
> the exception that the no-bib version won't be able to generate a
> bibliography.
>
> Rintze
>
>
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>
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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Rintze Zelle]

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(sorry, but I don't really understand your point in the first three 
sentences)

Just to explain how this works in Zotero and Mendeley. Since word processor 
documents aren't very structured, Zotero and Mendeley both rely on the user 
to indicate *where* to insert the bibliography. As long as the user doesn't 
indicate the bibliography location in the document, there is no 
bibliography, even if the user already inserted citations in the document. 
Does that make sense?

Rintze

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:45:42 PM UTC-4, Scot Mcphee wrote:
>
> How does Mendeley, or Zotero for that matter (only slightly familiar with 
> Zotero), care if I have a bibliography in my document or not? It's the 
> source of the bibliographic information, not the thing that contains the 
> bibliography. It's a fail at the domain level to insist on Bibliographies 
> in CSL when it's optional. There are journals that require note-style 
> inserts of references and no Bibliography. That's the reality that the 
> tools have to conform to. Unless there is some piece of the picture that I 
> don't follow properly.
>
> regards
> Scot.
>
>
>
> *Scot Mcphee. *
> *Computer programmer. Classics PhD.*
> p +61 412 957414
> e scot.mcphee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org <javascript:>
> w http://autonomous.org/
>
>
>
> On 16 April 2014 02:19, Rintze Zelle <rintze...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org <javascript:>>wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 11:53:33 AM UTC-4, Joseph wrote:
>>>
>>> On 04/15/2014 11:37 AM, Rintze Zelle wrote: 
>>> > they had a bibliography defined. Since Zotero relies on explicit 
>>> > insertion of a bibliography, the CSL style variant without a 
>>> > bibliography was deemed redundant and removed from the style 
>>> > repository. I'd like to keep it that way, since having more styles 
>>> > makes the repository harder to maintain. See 
>>> > https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/10878/styles-for-
>>> inclusion-in-20-final/?Focus=52220#Comment_52220 
>>> > for the relevant discussion. 
>>>
>>> Thank you for the explanation. I'll note that for folks that are using 
>>> an app that doesn't provide for this (like pandoc, presently) that means 
>>> the individual user has to maintain these no-bib style sheets 
>>> individually, which is even worse... 
>>>
>>
>> I realize that. If there really isn't a way to suppress a bibliography in 
>> pandoc, we could revisit our position. That said, we already have 10 CMoS 
>> variants ( https://zotero.org/styles?q=chicago%2016th ), and having even 
>> more is also confusing to users, especially if the with-bib and without-bib 
>> versions behave the same for users of Zotero, Mendeley, and the like, with 
>> the exception that the no-bib version won't be able to generate a 
>> bibliography.
>>
>> Rintze
>>  
>>
>> -- 
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>> .
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/f1d9b9ef-4801-4d45-9a4c-e45f92c7c8a8%40googlegroups.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/f1d9b9ef-4801-4d45-9a4c-e45f92c7c8a8%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>

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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Scot Mcphee]

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No it makes no sense. Zotero and Mendeley and Papers don’t care about my document, just as Bibdesk doesn’t. They don’ even know it exists and happily fulfil all their functional requirements without it. That’s because Zotero and Mendeley and Papers themselves don’t have anything to do with inserting bibliography into documents. They may ship with additional components that enable this to occur, but this isn’t a core function of the tool itself, and one that is not used by all their users.

That is my material point.


--
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Computer Programmer, Classics PhD.
p +61 412 957414
e scot.mcphee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
http://autonomous.org/

From: Rintze Zelle rintze.zelle-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
Reply: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
Date: 17 April 2014 at 00:56:45  
To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
Subject:  Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)  

(sorry, but I don't really understand your point in the first three sentences)

Just to explain how this works in Zotero and Mendeley. Since word processor documents aren't very structured, Zotero and Mendeley both rely on the user to indicate *where* to insert the bibliography. As long as the user doesn't indicate the bibliography location in the document, there is no bibliography, even if the user already inserted citations in the document. Does that make sense?

Rintze

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:45:42 PM UTC-4, Scot Mcphee wrote:
How does Mendeley, or Zotero for that matter (only slightly familiar with Zotero), care if I have a bibliography in my document or not? It's the source of the bibliographic information, not the thing that contains the bibliography. It's a fail at the domain level to insist on Bibliographies in CSL when it's optional. There are journals that require note-style inserts of references and no Bibliography. That's the reality that the tools have to conform to. Unless there is some piece of the picture that I don't follow properly.

regards
Scot.



Scot Mcphee. 
Computer programmer. Classics PhD.
p +61 412 957414
e scot.mcphee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
w http://autonomous.org/



On 16 April 2014 02:19, Rintze Zelle <rintze...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 11:53:33 AM UTC-4, Joseph wrote:
On 04/15/2014 11:37 AM, Rintze Zelle wrote:
> they had a bibliography defined. Since Zotero relies on explicit
> insertion of a bibliography, the CSL style variant without a
> bibliography was deemed redundant and removed from the style
> repository. I'd like to keep it that way, since having more styles
> makes the repository harder to maintain. See
> https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/10878/styles-for-inclusion-in-20-final/?Focus=52220#Comment_52220
> for the relevant discussion.

Thank you for the explanation. I'll note that for folks that are using
an app that doesn't provide for this (like pandoc, presently) that means
the individual user has to maintain these no-bib style sheets
individually, which is even worse...

I realize that. If there really isn't a way to suppress a bibliography in pandoc, we could revisit our position. That said, we already have 10 CMoS variants ( https://zotero.org/styles?q=chicago%2016th ), and having even more is also confusing to users, especially if the with-bib and without-bib versions behave the same for users of Zotero, Mendeley, and the like, with the exception that the no-bib version won't be able to generate a bibliography.

Rintze
 
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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Rintze Zelle]

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Sorry, but you completely lost me here. Are you trying to say to CSL design 
shouldn't depend on how things work in Zotero/Mendeley/Papers, because 
these programs don't ship with word processor plugins?

Rintze

On Friday, April 18, 2014 9:04:57 AM UTC-4, Scot Mcphee wrote:
>
> No it makes no sense. Zotero and Mendeley and Papers don’t care about my 
> document, just as Bibdesk doesn’t. They don’ even know it exists and 
> happily fulfil all their functional requirements without it. That’s because 
> Zotero and Mendeley and Papers themselves don’t have anything to do with 
> *inserting* bibliography into documents. They may ship with *additional*components that enable this to occur, but this isn’t a core function of the 
> tool itself, and one that is not used by all their users.
>
> *That* is my material point.
>

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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Scot Mcphee]

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I’m saying that CSL design exactly the opposite: that there should be no-bib versions of note style CSLs, because those things are needed, and not every tool that uses them relies on tricks to “suppress” the unwanted bibliography. And the claim this feature (no-bib CSL) isn’t needed because Zotero and Mendeley (or whatever) don’t need it is a broken design process.

Scot

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From: Rintze Zelle rintze.zelle-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
Reply: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
Date: 19 April 2014 at 06:16:26  
To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
Subject:  Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)  

Sorry, but you completely lost me here. Are you trying to say to CSL design shouldn't depend on how things work in Zotero/Mendeley/Papers, because these programs don't ship with word processor plugins?

Rintze

On Friday, April 18, 2014 9:04:57 AM UTC-4, Scot Mcphee wrote:
No it makes no sense. Zotero and Mendeley and Papers don’t care about my document, just as Bibdesk doesn’t. They don’ even know it exists and happily fulfil all their functional requirements without it. That’s because Zotero and Mendeley and Papers themselves don’t have anything to do with inserting bibliography into documents. They may ship with additional components that enable this to occur, but this isn’t a core function of the tool itself, and one that is not used by all their users.

That is my material point.
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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Rintze Zelle]

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Well, for now I would like to keep non-bibliography variants of CSL styles 
out of our repository. Let's first wait and see whether 
https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-citeproc/pull/40 gets accepted.

I'm curious though about the scope of this problem. Which CSL styles did 
the people in this thread run into problems with? Just 
chicago-author-date.csl? And does the problem affect all pandoc input 
formats (i.e., do none of them rely on clues within the document on whether 
to insert a bibliography?)? One option would be to just ship 
pandoc-citeproc with a bibliography and a no-bibliography variant of 
chicago-author-date.csl.

Rintze

On Friday, April 18, 2014 5:50:05 PM UTC-4, Scot Mcphee wrote:
>
> I’m saying that CSL design exactly the opposite: that there should be 
> no-bib versions of note style CSLs, because those things are needed, and 
> not every tool that uses them relies on tricks to “suppress” the unwanted 
> bibliography. And the claim this feature (no-bib CSL) isn’t needed because 
> Zotero and Mendeley (or whatever) don’t need it is a broken design process.
>

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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Jesse Rosenthal]

Rintze Zelle <rintze.zelle-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> I'm curious though about the scope of this problem. Which CSL styles did 
> the people in this thread run into problems with? Just 
> chicago-author-date.csl? And does the problem affect all pandoc input 
> formats (i.e., do none of them rely on clues within the document on whether 
> to insert a bibliography?)? One option would be to just ship 
> pandoc-citeproc with a bibliography and a no-bibliography variant of 
> chicago-author-date.csl.

Author of the proposed patch you mentioned here. I'd be opposed to
shipping bib and no-bib versions. It would set a precedent of people
needing to double their bibs, and it would confuse a correct
bibliographic style with "what I want for this stage of drafting."

Markdown and LaTeX are, I think, the only formats that pass info to
pandoc-citeproc (the LaTeX reader read biblatex citations, I
*think*). But once it's been read in, there's no control, since the
citations are generated in the AST before the output is written.

My previous proposed solution still puts the references at the end, so
it doesn't offer some control as some might desire.

One other possible solution, though would be to rely on the id of a
section header, instead of relying on metadata. So, in other words, when
you put in

~~~{.markdown}

Bibliography {#ref-section}
============
~~~

(or whatever), that section would then be filled in with bibliographic
information. If no such header were there, there wouldn't be a reference
section. This would take care of the issues of having control over the
inclusion, the placement, and the title. I still think metadata looks a
bit neater, especially in its markdown form, but I could see the
benefits of this approach as well (especially when it comes to
controlling the location in the document).

Best,
Jesse

Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Joseph]

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Does anyone remember where this stands? Do we have to edit and maintain 
no-bib CSLs (because fullnote is sufficient) or does pandoc now have the 
ability for suppressing or placing the bibliography---or the notes?
 

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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Sergio Correia]

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I might be missing something, but why can't we just use a filter to delete 
or move the references? After all we are already calling citeproc as a 
filter so one more filter does no harm.



On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 10:26:20 AM UTC-5, Joseph wrote:
>
>  
> Does anyone remember where this stands? Do we have to edit and maintain 
> no-bib CSLs (because fullnote is sufficient) or does pandoc now have the 
> ability for suppressing or placing the bibliography---or the notes?
>  
>

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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[John MacFarlane]

You can add

suppress-bibliography: true

to your metadata.  As for placing the bibliography, yes,
you can place it where you like by inserting

<div id="refs"></div>

See the pandoc-citeproc man page!

+++ Joseph [Dec 14 16 07:26 ]:
>
>   Does anyone remember where this stands? Do we have to edit and maintain
>   no-bib CSLs (because fullnote is sufficient) or does pandoc now have
>   the ability for suppressing or placing the bibliography---or the notes?
>
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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[John Muccigrosso]

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On Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 4:21:53 AM UTC-5, John MacFarlane wrote:
>
> You can add 
>
> suppress-bibliography: true 
>
> to your metadata.  As for placing the bibliography, yes, 
> you can place it where you like by inserting 
>
> <div id="refs"></div> 
>

Speaking of this, it would be great if just the presence of the "refs" id 
were enough to cause the bibliography to be written. For example, one could 
put in a header of any level and have the bib follow it. This would keep 
everything in markdown, among other things.

### Silly title for my bib section {id="refs"}

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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[John MacFarlane]

There's already an issue for this:
https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-citeproc/issues/210
Oh, I see it was your issue!  Well, it's definitely
"on the list"; I agree it is a good feature.

+++ John Muccigrosso [Dec 15 16 08:34 ]:
>   On Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 4:21:53 AM UTC-5, John MacFarlane
>   wrote:
>
>     You can add
>     suppress-bibliography: true
>     to your metadata.  As for placing the bibliography, yes,
>     you can place it where you like by inserting
>     <div id="refs"></div>
>
>   Speaking of this, it would be great if just the presence of the "refs"
>   id were enough to cause the bibliography to be written. For example,
>   one could put in a header of any level and have the bib follow it. This
>   would keep everything in markdown, among other things.
>   ### Silly title for my bib section {id="refs"}
>
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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[John Muccigrosso]

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On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 1:17:38 AM UTC-7, John MacFarlane wrote:
>
> There's already an issue for this: 
> https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-citeproc/issues/210 
> Oh, I see it was your issue!  Well, it's definitely 
> "on the list"; I agree it is a good feature. 


:-) 

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Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Joseph Reagle]

On 12/15/16 4:21 AM, John MacFarlane wrote:
> suppress-bibliography: true
> <div id="refs"></div>

Great, very useful, and it's good to know there is a pandoc-citeproc man page.