From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/12121 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John MacFarlane Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: Reference.docx and default Word styles Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 09:26:42 -0800 Message-ID: <20150224172642.GA31959@dhcp-128-32-252-20.lips.berkeley.edu> References: <10d80cbd-5bdb-4937-811c-24af52aaadf3@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1424798833 26812 80.91.229.3 (24 Feb 2015 17:27:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 17:27:13 +0000 (UTC) To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBCJZJHG45QDBBYPIWKTQKGQEZSSB5II-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Tue Feb 24 18:27:02 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-ie0-f188.google.com ([209.85.223.188]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YQJG6-0005a0-E2 for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:26:58 +0100 Original-Received: by iecar1 with SMTP id ar1sf7501349iec.1 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 09:26:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=from:date:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=r7A+a7xJTMNcqHOMY55dgGnKCDPgoiXWj8d3wuFi/vY=; b=DEIaDX8EMH1A7nOcv8I6mnoYH6HiDKCodnENyJ5hvS0N5aHXFcQCOpDH6n4tFNut/n 5EKAiOPW6c0qgN24NPRF6VPWovr1SPjYZJABazza9OZ+dnr6ii/pfB/H0Hfht/rk5dbI AqJQD4pvSRQllSgAZzNxg3vLfVC/MgKNavwLRn6c5p7RPq9YQToZAXCTo2DXzBsIQAzj DlvKcTZRoZnrq/EbwjlZYP8ZAwjyyJdiS6fedjvAK7WOjJS+GDhSKHkFL627/VsEXTeh FTzqmLgeyQiBNoTWB57vavJUV4kgWM5M+TroelwO/Lq4UR0NRt9BoqaUo0kUrqh2Vnzq AiJg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:date:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to :user-agent:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=r7A+a7xJTMNcqHOMY55dgGnKCDPgoiXWj8d3wuFi/vY=; b=Ua+KykToI2I59Sjcsc5zdmRCW/C3fe/lLIzkf8A4StW+6XIr/gWinKx+IvQwKP8H3i nER3s8W4fnbSJCdwPbDQ05bPqyH//9fC5r9m2lwxCpZV2DQdVc5yxXhQ4QkNpcQBzzl3 skzrLMr0FP3ObtwqlcHJKyFsHwiBIkpMGnKKhX6IY6gZA3ZcEsl5WcHatQbUdpQgQXLB WyP0GFD61396vtnrGpMC1hDdRocpe0bPiM7k2eqKQ+sTqC3F03Akj511X0YuSXQY1As0 qHzC8Fubxrm/qSBLsr7okVBV3g6BerBJlonkE08xSVTkKEvixt0AHvUmhm/OLm52c/Sk hq X-Received: by 10.140.100.230 with SMTP id s93mr201907qge.1.1424798817719; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 09:26:57 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 10.140.101.111 with SMTP id t102ls1040636qge.62.gmail; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 09:26:57 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.236.228.163 with SMTP id f33mr17843294yhq.29.1424798817310; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 09:26:57 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from mail-pa0-f45.google.com (mail-pa0-f45.google.com. 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[74.82.3.134]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ua7sm39902148pab.37.2015.02.24.09.26.54 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 24 Feb 2015 09:26:54 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by johnmacfarlane.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 139B3A31F; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 12:26:43 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://johnmacfarlane.net/jgm.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Original-Sender: jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org designates 209.85.220.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.pandoc:12121 Archived-At: As you point out, #2 may break some existing reference.docx setups. (That is, people may have a reference.docx that modifies the styles pandoc currently uses; if pandoc changes these, a new custom reference.docx would be needed.) Still, I think this isn't sufficient reason to avoid #2. One further reservation. See commit https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/commit/3fca434737f0eee706c02fba6a2a2629338a1065 which explains (sort of) why we use FootnoteRef instead of FootnoteReference and Hyperlink instead of Link. See also https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/commit/caed0df4a7ed5b2ec0cc2b15cc99e359987982e4 for further amplification. I can't recall all the details here, just that when I used the Word style names, Word would sometimes mess things up when the reference.docx was saved. I agree that it would be best to use the standard Word styles if possible, but I wanted to call your attention to this problem I had earlier. John +++ Matthew Pickering [Feb 24 15 02:36 ]: >Ok -- to clarify you are talking about modifying the docx writer to produce >an output which word better understands? I don't think that there will be >many who object to these changes as the reference.docx has been the issue >of quite a few bug reports. It would be even better if that with these >changes, it is possible for a user to use any file with these default >styles defined for reasonable results. Which if I'm understanding correctly >would be an unintended but nice consequence. > >So for the record, I think 2 is the best solution. > >On Monday, February 23, 2015 at 10:14:27 PM UTC, Nikolay Yakimov wrote: >> >> Hi. I'm working on https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/pull/1968, and I've got >> some questions. >> >> Some styles in reference.docx are marked as custom, some are not. Some of >> those not marked custom are recognized by Word as built-in. Some are not, >> however. Word automatically marks those as custom, but this introduces >> unnecessary ambiguity. Furthermore, some styles not recognized by Word as >> built-in actually duplicate built-in styles, and could be renamed to >> reflect that. >> >> Here is a list of styles I'm most concerned about: >> Nameambiguoustypecan be replaced byAuthoryesp?Abstractyesp?Compactyesp?Image >> Captionyespcaption?Block QuoteyespIntense Quote, Block Text, QuoteTable >> Captionyespcaption?Definition Termyesp?Definitionyesp?FirstParagraphyesp? >> LinknocHyperlinkFootnote Refnocfootnote reference >> >> these are either ambiguous (again, meaning that they are neither custom, >> nor Word defaults), duplicate default Word styles, or both. >> >> So the question is, what should be done with them? I've got the following >> options: >> >> 1. Update reference.docx to define ambiguous styles as custom. Do >> nothing more. This is a quick-and-dirty solution. >> 2. Replace styles in reference with word-recognized ones as best I >> can, set those I can't as custom. This is a longer path, but leading to >> hopefully better user experience. >> 3. Do nothing at all, and hope for the best. This will likely lead to >> 'surprises' in the future, and not the pleasant kind, I fear. >> >> First two options require significant updates to reference.docx though, >> and option 2 is not strictly backwards-compatible with pandoc-created docx >> (although it'll likely be a couple of styles, not much more). >> >> >> So, what are your thoughts on this matter? >> > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/d71ce0fa-d002-474a-8e6e-b97500b27352%40googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.