From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/16431 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: BP Jonsson Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: RFC: Designing Logo of Pandoc Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2016 00:55:00 +0100 Message-ID: <29dbdf52-294b-b6a9-b598-ea742b5d4afb@gmail.com> References: <3298337b-6214-4927-bca7-d33ccddca3fa@googlegroups.com> <87shpywqjj.fsf@fastmail.fm> <20161208125813.GA93986@Administrateurs-iMac-3.local> <49debf77-8594-487e-8c82-d92be13e9092@googlegroups.com> <92065ba0-cba5-2b43-92ae-1cf42e2618bd@gmail.com> <844cf7bd-c9f1-49e0-a1fd-81a827c9c667@googlegroups.com> <121f2a53-ddfe-46af-96b4-a03dcdbe80da@googlegroups.com> <20161209105407.GB96950@Administrateurs-iMac-3.local> <4f2fea29-9e58-a79a-0c49-1612844d5fa1@gmail.com> <5bba1098-d1c9-9d7e-0fbb-3914abd93364@gmail.com> <87zijzpfw0.fsf@espresso.zeitkraut.de> <8f87b3f6-41d0-47d7-a6fe-117892a30c46@googlegroups.com> <30f01b4c-8b2c-481a-96f9-dfd0ba37e71a@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1481846111 6793 195.159.176.226 (15 Dec 2016 23:55:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 23:55:11 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1 To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBDIY76M674FRBW62ZTBAKGQEBKG5YEI-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Fri Dec 16 00:55:07 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-qk0-f184.google.com ([209.85.220.184]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cHfrb-0000k7-Gz for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 00:55:03 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-qk0-f184.google.com with SMTP id t184sf18722338qkd.0 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:55:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=7VwG1t8XUKFhA+TsAUCzLIvS5NFaFTnmA9paSRLeoHA=; b=fZMSdg5DvJc+URdlS0jt1uPSxt+el1cEp/HKjVh+JAHNMxLzQ64cBqFgERVAiGvw9/ mK18OIEYIX0ZVo4v4NdV3UTNeqA5wJvIIfaxannCL21ngwQzTocDiGBgVZpV2d2KM93C HlFFccS+bTJsggTF+3XBFkgsUX9w5OC+a9Empuqq3hgqVWeBzSAVtfO3PPnSDZ6bGdga 2RJwhKtEKrbfVemhHO8FL1m3JnhfUgIq52V1DdrOfN6uIWZLUzKkRD0ng7cWa4u+nrCw UIv5EaOfLe9mGoWH3sOx3tQ0RIm/lTwb5bJqnIEgkx9MxhsCWPnOysEBUX+lmIciID8R NYiw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=7VwG1t8XUKFhA+TsAUCzLIvS5NFaFTnmA9paSRLeoHA=; b=gBEsbD8SJRUush3bqjSWDYwoYXjWh8oxqkYFT2xhIEi27yZ+KQ2nQnx1aLwag3v1Af WxK2jeKq5XoGkJx5TtxMReNnIljlzVhpJp0DPtUbR+IHD0zGo8snkY1/eeoWLScMK2sW 0v8nO5Yw2F6EcWmmWaEkFpQ4N0p9fTsVwOQ4KIoTJ299jeIwOq4m+8UvAG7PCZOfS5XT BeB+th5zS0RFYyUBgPJYGyQUfLx9M+WuhZP7C1h7VomkAY505jBhMu2CwKjoIOdND91n ws/SqXBozxllUH2ahhj1kRtL3DE8PEfuWcW80uIbMh21aBUxETjPDdRrOi2znlb Original-Sender: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJkL70wHl+R1tR6F/buRnzWZyUucPRMP4YlFcN9f71dvMnU+yoJgFiNslhcw06h6A== X-Received: by 10.157.20.197 with SMTP id r5mr23340otr.9.1481846107823; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:55:07 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 10.157.5.103 with SMTP id 94ls7473913otw.35.gmail; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:55:07 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.157.35.50 with SMTP id j47mr111033otb.4.1481846107342; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:55:07 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from manu6.manufrog.com (manu6.manufrog.com. [138.128.164.242]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e18si318075vke.0.2016.12.15.15.55.06 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:55:07 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: softfail (google.com: domain of transitioning bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org does not designate 138.128.164.242 as permitted sender) client-ip=138.128.164.242; Original-Received: from [178.249.150.152] (port=58944 helo=[192.168.1.248]) by manu6.manufrog.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cHfrb-003xLF-Jq for pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 00:55:03 +0100 In-Reply-To: <30f01b4c-8b2c-481a-96f9-dfd0ba37e71a-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - manu6.manufrog.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - googlegroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - gmail.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: manu6.manufrog.com: authenticated_id: bpj-J3H7GcXPSITLoDKTGw+V6w@public.gmane.org X-Authenticated-Sender: manu6.manufrog.com: bpj-J3H7GcXPSITLoDKTGw+V6w@public.gmane.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Original-Sender: bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=softfail (google.com: domain of transitioning bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org does not designate 138.128.164.242 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org; dmarc=fail (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.pandoc:16431 Archived-At: You may see the =E2=88=80 in the middle as representing the =E2=88=80ST aro= und=20 which the conversion between different input and output formats=20 revolves! :-) /bpj Den 2016-12-15 kl. 01:40, skrev Kolen Cheung: > > > On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 8:45:41 AM UTC-8, BP wrote: > > To a normal user (I.e. you aren=E2=80=99t a Pandoc contributor or filter = author) > the AST is an implementation detail which you don=E2=80=99t interact with= . The > normal user experience is pandoc -f markdown -t html`, i.e. you input a > document in one markup format and get (a file) in anotheir markup format > (possibly zipped together with sundry other files) as output, without any > intermediate file or files. There is no point in creating a false > impression that there always must be an intermediate file. In fact that m= ay > scare off potential normal users. To them the thing which sets pandoc apa= rt > from other light markup processors is that it supports conversion back an= d > forth between multiple markup formats, and the logo should emphasize that= . > The logo needs to be intelligible and meaningful to the less geeky users > which hopefully are in majority. > > /bpj > > It certainly is another possible perspective. So let me illustrate more o= n > my perspective: > > 1. > > There are countless examples of expectation from end-users (including > me) that originated from the misunderstanding of what pandoc is and wh= at > pandoc does. Rather than trying not to =E2=80=9Cscare off potential no= rmal users=E2=80=9D > (which is unlikely to happen from a logo alone, since they won=E2=80= =99t understand > the nuance in it at first sight), may be we should set the expectation > right as early as possible, so that they won=E2=80=99t be disappointed= later on, > and will not waste time to use pandoc for the wrong task. > 2. > > The logo having arrows pointing to a common element representing AST > will not make a real difference on first sight. But it would be a grea= t > =E2=80=9Centry point=E2=80=9D to talk about the philosophy behind pand= oc. Having a 2nd > layer of sophistication means intelligible and meaningful to me. (i.e.= at > first sight you get something, but there=E2=80=99s a deeper story behi= nd it.) > - To further illustrate on this point, at first glance, pandoc seems > very similar to some other tool, e.g. MultiMarkdown. But as one pus= hes the > tools further, they will realize pandoc is much deeper than what it= seems > like at first glance. So, if the logo can have layers of meaning, i= t > represents pandoc better. > > I don=E2=80=99t mean it has to be done this way. I mean if there=E2=80=99= s arrows, arrows > pointing to a common element is more correct and deeper, and doesn=E2=80= =99t really > scare off people (may actually attract the right people), and is a path > worth explore. But if no design makes this looks good and natural, we nee= d > not to force it. > =E2=80=8B > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= pandoc-discuss/29dbdf52-294b-b6a9-b598-ea742b5d4afb%40gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.