From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/27357 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "'Till Grallert' via pandoc-discuss" Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: Removing parentheses around citations in footnotes Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2020 06:49:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3a7cea0b-fbcd-45e2-9f52-5cb530d8f9d8n@googlegroups.com> References: <5fa5b126.1c69fb81.4fe42.2557SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@gmr-mx.google.com> <7274a64c-f4d4-4f71-91e3-34f23b1f9160@Spark> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_13928_1083259592.1609426145842" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24465"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: pandoc-discuss Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBDA6PPXYYMPRBY6JW77QKGQE5EY5DKA-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Thu Dec 31 15:49:10 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from mail-oi1-f183.google.com ([209.85.167.183]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kuzGI-0006Fx-Gs for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 15:49:10 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-oi1-f183.google.com with SMTP id z7sf12253680oic.21 for ; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 06:49:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=mjYP/pOallUfuYZKgc3LLWNYKJ7Xugs/eGySpB4kjrA=; b=D0N7ewJmGwaOTJqIik7SPbzA0BfC8kWYbnFtrz2n7hz51X/8LOryGT33kX6QBdMCfY LPJYrdf8eeD+vE7uV62E5OEQFVaF6AAabT4FUuFsygJ9mKuQF7kjPfrA0kSP99VlbNDD Dk6tcQtMuJsWiog/2GUO3jX5hBjC+zNiTdUNxP4BIWogiLtL/NeMadiDfOrM/ZZRZoYN gTeDzSXb1qnyLfrtbdEooK6hNHSsvdtLAEjjdXwV23sIpHx4SsQIpezUjZX1r31Uq0Ir 8F48LP3A5uET6ABjUQevvoc4fzqs6e7C7bDsCPPgw2H+EKFQbGFNlDclBSpFDaG80g7I u6wQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=mjYP/pOallUfuYZKgc3LLWNYKJ7Xugs/eGySpB4kjrA=; b=o2w3ZIpFx8dm65offbgqnSUQCPKKCynivPrYovkIUyjWTpkF6q7FgjtzORWnATpi+g KYE+YVM1GY3EpDX1qO+txehsjqKaJRcGzAcI0oVJbURkFWM29Bj9t4SntAD5T00DB/JO tP8mgZEK46dqFtUr2rPPFyLLYj5bHodqEh6p6g8pPbiA2Y6u5Gmx6wCmsOHU0MqPb6hv nvBhbhwOBHcqQZ4Ln2gxa9cjG+rKhUTwrNBzRixDhWKvRnojiYjdeIso7Ck+o9LHBWDz HoShpiZ4BzlCXswSyrC3S8k730sGdNMqAwStiJr+Iexv2WbIEuADKJb5zDhOu8Y9em5C TMCg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5329aHiZbiaoamTM9GsnyBLxS0a41Vdcz82WQXZyrLckES5h6+EU CCBcJB4NJ85TtCwJmZADlT8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzjLZnN/slbyjY4VyQNnRnRcqPkaOzxCdi7f9zLLNZZr3MsNo4D6/a8oubAB1SQvYbn71IkfA== X-Received: by 2002:aca:ac4f:: with SMTP id v76mr8133105oie.95.1609426149547; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 06:49:09 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 2002:a9d:7a8e:: with SMTP id l14ls11412775otn.1.gmail; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 06:49:07 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1d8f:: with SMTP id y15mr42424043oti.332.1609426146990; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 06:49:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: till.grallert-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org X-Original-From: Till Grallert Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.text.pandoc:27357 Archived-At: ------=_Part_13928_1083259592.1609426145842 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13929_76367080.1609426145842" ------=_Part_13929_76367080.1609426145842 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am late to the discussion and to this Google group. But since I was=20 struck by unexpected behaviour after migrating from pandoc-citeproc to=20 citeproc, I would like to share two observations. First, if, as per the=20 pandoc manual, =E2=80=9CMarkdown citations go inside square brackets and ar= e=20 separated by semicolons=E2=80=9D then recommending the following for citati= ons in=20 footnotes without parentheses is not a valid markdown citation:=20 [^note]: See @doe for xyz. Second, this all seems to be an extension of CSL without calling it such.= =20 Namely, I have to decide on the styling of a citation (i.e. whether or not= =20 to wrap the formatted output in parentheses) in my markdown source and not= =20 by applying a CSL style. I might have gotten the discussion entirely wrong, in which case I=20 apologise for bothering you.=20 On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 6:31:25 PM UTC+1 John MacFarlane wrote: > Brian Hamilton writes: > > > Thanks again, all, for making some of these changes. I just re-ran some= =20 > of the essays I=E2=80=99d been writing with the new release, and it works= like a=20 > charm. > > > > The one thing I=E2=80=99m still noticing is that the changes do not app= ly to=20 > citations in which the author has been suppressed. Thus a note like this: > > > > [^finnsources]: Finn first laid out his proposal in -@finn2016. He drew= =20 > there on some ideas already articulated in his edited volume, -@finn2014,= =20 > and has recently developed the idea more systematically in a new edited= =20 > volume called -@finn2020... > > > > comes out like this: > > > > > > > > Would it cause further difficulties to apply the same fix to=20 > author-suppressed citations? > > This is being discussed in another thread: > https://groups.google.com/g/pandoc-discuss/c/T2-J5RJmVU4/m/ZcXj1sGAAQAJ > > With -@finn2014 I think it would be reasonable to handle it in > the way you suggest, just rendering the citation without > punctuation (when it occurs in a note, in a note style). > > But we probably don't want to treat [-@finn:2014] the same way. > > And the problem is that pandoc parses -@finn:2014 and > [-@finn:2014] to nearly the same structure > > % pandoc -t native > -@finn:2014 > [Para [Cite [Citation {citationId =3D "finn:2014", citationPrefix =3D [],= =20 > citationSuffix =3D [], citationMode =3D SuppressAuthor, citationNoteNum = =3D 1,=20 > citationHash =3D 0}] [Str "@finn:2014"]]] > > % pandoc -t native > [-@finn:2014] > [Para [Cite [Citation {citationId =3D "finn:2014", citationPrefix =3D [],= =20 > citationSuffix =3D [], citationMode =3D SuppressAuthor, citationNoteNum = =3D 1,=20 > citationHash =3D 0}] [Str "[-@finn:2014]"]]] > > The only way to distinguish these is to look at the raw content > and check for a bracket (which, now that I think of it, might work). > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= pandoc-discuss/3a7cea0b-fbcd-45e2-9f52-5cb530d8f9d8n%40googlegroups.com. ------=_Part_13929_76367080.1609426145842 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am late to the discussion and to this Google group. But since I was = struck by unexpected behaviour after migrating from pandoc-citeproc to cite= proc, I would like to share two observations. First, if, as per the pandoc = manual, =E2=80=9CMarkdown citations go inside square brackets and are separ= ated by semicolons=E2=80=9D then recommending the following for citations i= n footnotes without parentheses is not a valid markdown citation:

[^note]: See @doe for xyz.

Se= cond, this all seems to be an extension of CSL without calling it such. Nam= ely, I have to decide on the styling of a citation (i.e. whether or not to = wrap the formatted output in parentheses) in my markdown source and not by = applying a CSL style.

I might have gotten the disc= ussion entirely wrong, in which case I apologise for bothering you.

On= Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 6:31:25 PM UTC+1 John MacFarlane wrote:
<= /div>
Brian Hamilton <= ;bdham...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writ= es:

> Thanks again, all, for making some of these changes. I just re-ran= some of the essays I=E2=80=99d been writing with the new release, and it w= orks like a charm.
>
> The one thing I=E2=80=99m still noticing is that the changes do=C2= =A0not=C2=A0apply to citations in which the author has been suppressed. Thu= s a note like this:
>
> [^finnsources]: Finn first laid out his proposal in -@finn2016. He= drew there on some ideas already articulated in his edited volume, -@finn2= 014, and has recently developed the idea more systematically in a new edite= d volume called -@finn2020...
>
> comes out like this:
>
>
>
> Would it cause further difficulties to apply the same fix to autho= r-suppressed citations?

This is being discussed in another thread:
https://groups.google= .com/g/pandoc-discuss/c/T2-J5RJmVU4/m/ZcXj1sGAAQAJ

With -@finn2014 I think it would be reasonable to handle it in
the way you suggest, just rendering the citation without
punctuation (when it occurs in a note, in a note style).

But we probably don't want to treat [-@finn:2014] the same way.

And the problem is that pandoc parses -@finn:2014 and
[-@finn:2014] to nearly the same structure

% pandoc -t native
-@finn:2014
[Para [Cite [Citation {citationId =3D "finn:2014", citationPr= efix =3D [], citationSuffix =3D [], citationMode =3D SuppressAuthor, citati= onNoteNum =3D 1, citationHash =3D 0}] [Str "@finn:2014"]]]

% pandoc -t native
[-@finn:2014]
[Para [Cite [Citation {citationId =3D "finn:2014", citationPr= efix =3D [], citationSuffix =3D [], citationMode =3D SuppressAuthor, citati= onNoteNum =3D 1, citationHash =3D 0}] [Str "[-@finn:2014]"]]]

The only way to distinguish these is to look at the raw content
and check for a bracket (which, now that I think of it, might work).

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pand= oc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
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