Re: Citeproc is bringing a question mark inside quotes?

[gnpan <g.panayotou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>]

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sorry, meant jgm (or John)

On Saturday, 26 June 2021 at 09:18:47 UTC+3 gnpan wrote:

> This problem was introduced with citeproc, which applies the style to the 
> whole document, not just citations - it didn't occur with older versions of 
> pandoc that used pandoc-citeproc. According to Jim 
> <https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/issues/7005#issuecomment-754179054>, it 
> would be tricky to fix this without causing problems with note citations. 
>
> On Saturday, 26 June 2021 at 00:25:14 UTC+3 amph...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org wrote:
>
>> On 6/25/2021 13:47, gnpan wrote: 
>> > This is a csl locale issue, US is default. You can try --metadata 
>> > lang=en-GB as suggested here 
>> > <https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/issues/7005> or add a zero-width-space 
>> as 
>> > mentioned here 
>> > <
>> https://groups.google.com/g/pandoc-discuss/c/NiFPVF9TeCg/m/9pHluL3iAgAJ>. 
>>
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Friday, 25 June 2021 at 14:38:07 UTC+3 William Lupton wrote: 
>> > 
>> > Hello, 
>> > 
>> > It seems that adding --citeproc causes a question mark to be brought 
>> > within quotes, which I didn't expect. I tried escaping it but this 
>> > didn't make any difference. Putting a space before it avoids the 
>> > behaviour... but I don't want a space! 
>> > 
>> > Thanks, 
>> > William 
>> > 
>> > % pandoc -v 
>> > pandoc 2.14.0.3 
>> > 
>> > % cat question.md 
>> > '-'? 
>> > 
>> > % pandoc question.md 
>> > <p>‘-’?</p> 
>> > 
>> > % pandoc --citeproc question.md 
>> > <p>‘-?’</p> 
>> > 
>>
>>
>> US practice is to put commas and stops inside the quotation marks of a 
>> quotation and larger punctuation (?!;:) outside, except in the case that 
>> the large punctuation is part of the quoted material (“Who, me?”). So, 
>> US practice supports both. 
>> Similarly, British (or UK, or GB) practice places marks in a default 
>> position (outside) but allows them inside based on the semantic content. 
>> If CSL US locale processing is mangling this by moving both large and 
>> small marks in every case, then CSL processing is creating some new 
>> standard. I would suggest that if the proper position cannot be 
>> programmatically determined it should default to what the writer writes. 
>> Quotation marks are used for other things than quotations. Indeed, 
>> the use in citation processing is such another use. Again the writer 
>> must be trusted to place punctuation properly in context. A.J. Liebling 
>> wrote ‘Do You Belong in Journalism?’ in 1960; did he write it in his 
>> regular column ‘The Wayward Press’? 
>> The behavior identified here takes place outside of citation 
>> processing. The OP is rightly surprised that it results in changes 
>> beyond that scope. 
>>
>> -- 
>> Rik 
>>
>>

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