Re: controlling smart typography with org or markdown

[John MacFarlane <jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org>]

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I'm not sure what's going on with org (2), but I can illuminate the other 
mysteries.

1)  It's not a typo.  markdown_strict is the name of the format (really 
shorthand for markdown with certain extension settings).

3) Why the reverse effect with `-t markdown-smart`?

Think of it this way.  You're writing markdown for consumption by a 
markdown processor which does not have "smart" support.  How, then, should 
we render Str "\8211"?  Not as "--", because the target processor doesn't 
support smart quotes; it will interpret "--" as two dashes.  Instead, as a 
unicode en-dash.

Another way to think of it is this:  'pandoc -f markdown+smart -t 
markdown+smart' should be ideally be an identity, at least up to the 
semantics.  (There might be changes in indentation, bullet markers, and 
things like that, but we'd hope that the source and target would correspond 
to the same AST.)  So, if '-f markdown+smart' changes "--" to "\8211", then 
"-t markdown+smart" had better change "\8211" back to "--".

4) Hopefully it makes more sense now in light of the above.  I don't really 
understand how you're using "smart markdown" here.  The way we use it, 
"smart markdown" is a markdown dialect in which "--" gets parsed as Str 
"\8211", and Str "\8211" gets rendered as "--".  That is, a dialect in 
which the markdown string "--" *means* Str "\8211".



On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 12:41:00 PM UTC-7 Simon Michael wrote:

> G'day all!
>
> As someone documenting command line software, I never want `smart` 
> typography. Still, Pandoc lets me control it, right ? In the end, yes.. 
> but I must share some notes. Perhaps I'm getting confused between 
> readers and writers ? Any comments welcome.
>
>
> 1. A small correction
> ---------------------
>
> > https://pandoc.org/MANUAL.html#extensions: "For example, --from 
> markdown_strict+footnotes is..."
>
> The underscore is a typo I think.
>
>
> 2. With the org reader, smart can not be disabled
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> > https://pandoc.org/MANUAL.html#extension-smart: "Interpret straight 
> quotes as curly quotes, --- as em-dashes, -- as en-dashes, and ... as 
> ellipses. "
>
> This suggests smart is disabled by default for org (reader, or so I think):
>
> $ pandoc --version
> pandoc 2.14.2
> Compiled with pandoc-types 1.22, texmath 0.12.3.1, skylighting 0.11,
> citeproc 0.5, ipynb 0.1.0.1
> ...
> $ pandoc --list-extensions=org
> -ascii_identifiers
> +auto_identifiers
> +citations
> -east_asian_line_breaks
> -gfm_auto_identifiers
> -smart
>
> But this shows it enabled by default:
>
> $ echo '--version' | pandoc -f org -t native
> [Para [Str "\8211version"]]
>
> And enabling/disabling the extension has no effect:
>
> $ echo '--version' | pandoc -f org-smart -t native
> [Para [Str "\8211version"]]
> $ echo '--version' | pandoc -f org+smart -t native
> [Para [Str "\8211version"]]
>
>
> 3. With the markdown writer, smart is selected oppositely
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Since I am converting to markdown, maybe I could control it there. I was 
> already disabling smart in the markdown writer I thought, but it was not 
> working:
>
> $ echo '--version' | pandoc -f org -t markdown-smart
> –version
>
> Then I found this:
>
> > "Note: If you are writing Markdown, then the smart extension has the 
> reverse effect: what would have been curly quotes comes out straight."
>
> Which indeed achieves my goal:
>
> $ echo '--version' | pandoc -f org -t markdown+smart
> --version
>
> But.. why the reverse effect ? There must be a reason, but I found this 
> non-intuitive.
>
>
> 4. More
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> So it seems I have been *enabling* smart in my markdown web docs (with 
> -t markdown-smart) for years. But I haven't been seeing smart 
> quotes/dashes; apparently they were still being suppressed by other 
> means. I investigated:
>
> With the markdown reader, smart is enabled by default, and disabled with 
> -smart as one would expect (unlike the markdown writer):
>
> $ echo '--version' | pandoc -f markdown -t native
> [Para [Str "\8211version"]]
> $ echo '--version' | pandoc -f markdown-smart -t native
> [Para [Str "--version"]]
>
> Here are the combinations of the markdown reader and markdown writer, as 
> I understand them.
>
> A. from smart markdown to non-smart markdown:
>
> $ echo '--version' | pandoc -f markdown -t markdown
> --version
>
> B. from smart markdown to smart markdown:
>
> $ echo '--version' | pandoc -f markdown -t markdown-smart
> –version
>
> C. from non-smart markdown to non-smart markdown (why the backslash ?):
>
> $ echo '--version' | pandoc -f markdown-smart -t markdown
> \--version
>
> D. from non-smart markdown to smart markdown (why no en-dash here ?)
>
> $ echo '--version' | pandoc -f markdown-smart -t markdown-smart
> --version
>
>
> And now I must go for a lie down.
>
>

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