[pipe_tables] Omitting column headers not possible?

[pipe_tables] Omitting column headers not possible?

[kurt.pfeifle-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg]

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For simple_tables, grid_tables and multiline_tables it is possible to omit 
column headers. 

This is explicitly mentioned in the manpage for pandoc_markdown for the 
cases of simple_tables and and multiline_tables. It is *not* mentioned for 
grid_tables, but it still works when using this syntax:

+---------------+---------------------------+
| ![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif) |
+---------------+---------------------------+

Omitting headers does not work for pipe_tables. *(Or at least I didn’t find 
any way when varying the syntax.)*

It would be very cool, and be a very fast-to-type method to create a 
one-row-table if I could just use s.th. like…

-|-
![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif)

…and this would create a one-row, two column table. (Exact syntax needs to 
be discussed, though.)

Questions:

   1. Could the fact that omitting column headers for for grid_tables be 
   mentioned in the documentation? 
   2. Could it also be mentioned in the documentation that it doesn’t work 
   for pipe_tables? 
   3. What obstacles are there that prevent the support for header-less 
   pipe_tables? 

​

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Re: [pipe_tables] Omitting column headers not possible?

[Daniel Staal]

--As of June 19, 2015 9:51:56 AM -0700, kurt.pfeifle-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org is 
alleged to have said:

> It would be very cool, and be a very fast-to-type method to create a
> one-row-table if I could just use s.th. like…
> -|-
> ![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif)
>
> …and this would create a one-row, two column table. (Exact syntax needs
> to be discussed, though.)
>
> Questions:
>   • Could the fact that omitting column headers for for grid_tables be
> mentioned in the documentation?
>   • Could it also be mentioned in the documentation that it doesn’t
> work for pipe_tables?
>   • What obstacles are there that prevent the support for header-less
> pipe_tables?

--As for the rest, it is mine.

I think one of the largest problems with ommiting the headers in pipe 
tables would be that the syntax would then look exactly like the syntax for 
line blocks, and would therefore be ambiguous about what needs to happen.

I'm actually not even sure it'd be clear to a human what you mean.  I know 
I have trouble seeing your example as a table.

Daniel T. Staal

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Re: [pipe_tables] Omitting column headers not possible?

[kurt.pfeifle-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg]

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Am Freitag, 19. Juni 2015 19:01:56 UTC+2 schrieb Daniel Staal:

--As of June 19, 2015 9:51:56 AM -0700, kurt.p...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org 
> <javascript:> is 
> alleged to have said: 
>
> > It would be very cool, and be a very fast-to-type method to create a 
> > one-row-table if I could just use s.th. like… 
> > -|- 
> > ![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif) 
> > 
> > …and this would create a one-row, two column table. (Exact syntax needs 
> > to be discussed, though.) 
> > 
> > Questions: 
> >   • Could the fact that omitting column headers for for grid_tables be 
> > mentioned in the documentation? 
> >   • Could it also be mentioned in the documentation that it doesn’t 
> > work for pipe_tables? 
> >   • What obstacles are there that prevent the support for header-less 
> > pipe_tables? 
>
> --As for the rest, it is mine. 
>
> I think one of the largest problems with ommiting the headers in pipe 
> tables would be that the syntax would then look exactly like the syntax 
> for 
> line blocks, and would therefore be ambiguous about what needs to happen. 
>
> I'm actually not even sure it'd be clear to a human what you mean.  I know 
> I have trouble seeing your example as a table. 
>
I used the most “lazy” syntax I could come up with.

Lazy pipe tables are also not so clear to humans (on first sight) what they 
mean… What about requiring initial and concluding pipes? Like that:

| ![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif) |

​

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Re: [pipe_tables] Omitting column headers not possible?

[Wagner Macedo]

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According to http://pandoc.org/README.html#tables

"The header cannot be omitted. To simulate a headerless table, include a 
> header with blank cells."


So, instead of

|-----+-----|
| 12  | 12  |
| 123 | 123 |

write

|     |     |
|-----+-----|
| 12  | 12  |
| 123 | 123 |

I tested and worked as expected.

Em sexta-feira, 19 de junho de 2015 14:29:35 UTC-3, 
kurt.p...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org escreveu:
>
> Am Freitag, 19. Juni 2015 19:01:56 UTC+2 schrieb Daniel Staal:
>
> --As of June 19, 2015 9:51:56 AM -0700, kurt.p...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org is 
>> alleged to have said: 
>>
>> > It would be very cool, and be a very fast-to-type method to create a 
>> > one-row-table if I could just use s.th. like… 
>> > -|- 
>> > ![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif) 
>> > 
>> > …and this would create a one-row, two column table. (Exact syntax needs 
>> > to be discussed, though.) 
>> > 
>> > Questions: 
>> >   • Could the fact that omitting column headers for for grid_tables be 
>> > mentioned in the documentation? 
>> >   • Could it also be mentioned in the documentation that it doesn’t 
>> > work for pipe_tables? 
>> >   • What obstacles are there that prevent the support for header-less 
>> > pipe_tables? 
>>
>> --As for the rest, it is mine. 
>>
>> I think one of the largest problems with ommiting the headers in pipe 
>> tables would be that the syntax would then look exactly like the syntax 
>> for 
>> line blocks, and would therefore be ambiguous about what needs to happen. 
>>
>> I'm actually not even sure it'd be clear to a human what you mean.  I 
>> know 
>> I have trouble seeing your example as a table. 
>>
> I used the most “lazy” syntax I could come up with.
>
> Lazy pipe tables are also not so clear to humans (on first sight) what 
> they mean… What about requiring initial and concluding pipes? Like that:
>
> | ![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif) |
>
> ​
>

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Re: [pipe_tables] Omitting column headers not possible?

[BP Jonsson]

Den 2015-06-19 18:51, kurt.pfeifle-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org skrev:
> It would be very cool, and be a very fast-to-type method to create a
> one-row-table if I could just use s.th. like…
>
> -|-
> ![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif)
>
> …and this would create a one-row, two column table.

I just tested and adding a single pipe above those two lines does 
the trick!

     |
     -|-
     ![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif)

     <table>
     <tbody>
     <tr class="odd">
     <td align="left"><img src="rose.gif" alt="" /></td>
     <td align="left"><img src="../img_www/right.gif" alt="" /></td>
     </tr>
     </tbody>
     </table>

But personally I think it's both ugly and inscrutable,
I would at least start each of the three lines with a pipe! :-)

P.S:

Somewhat to my surprise even this works:

     |
     |-
     | This is a one-row, one-column table

     <table>
     <tbody>
     <tr class="odd">
     <td align="left">This is a one-row, one-column table</td>
     </tr>
     </tbody>
     </table>

Pandoc golf!  Who would have thought?! :-)

/bpj


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Re: [pipe_tables] Omitting column headers not possible?

[Wagner Macedo]

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Well, this could be a bug, a good bug? ;-)

--
Wagner Macedo

On 19 June 2015 at 17:44, BP Jonsson <bpj-J3H7GcXPSITLoDKTGw+V6w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Den 2015-06-19 18:51, kurt.pfeifle-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org skrev:
>
>> It would be very cool, and be a very fast-to-type method to create a
>> one-row-table if I could just use s.th. like…
>>
>> -|-
>> ![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif)
>>
>> …and this would create a one-row, two column table.
>>
>
> I just tested and adding a single pipe above those two lines does the
> trick!
>
>     |
>     -|-
>     ![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif)
>
>     <table>
>     <tbody>
>     <tr class="odd">
>     <td align="left"><img src="rose.gif" alt="" /></td>
>     <td align="left"><img src="../img_www/right.gif" alt="" /></td>
>     </tr>
>     </tbody>
>     </table>
>
> But personally I think it's both ugly and inscrutable,
> I would at least start each of the three lines with a pipe! :-)
>
> P.S:
>
> Somewhat to my surprise even this works:
>
>     |
>     |-
>     | This is a one-row, one-column table
>
>     <table>
>     <tbody>
>     <tr class="odd">
>     <td align="left">This is a one-row, one-column table</td>
>     </tr>
>     </tbody>
>     </table>
>
> Pandoc golf!  Who would have thought?! :-)
>
> /bpj
>
>
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Re: [pipe_tables] Omitting column headers not possible?

[Daniel Staal]

--As of June 19, 2015 7:24:48 PM -0300, Wagner Macedo is alleged to have 
said:

> Well, this could be a bug, a good bug? ;-)

--As for the rest, it is mine.

Not really a bug: It's just a pipe table with an empty header line, as far 
as I see.  The only 'bug' would be that there isn't a '<th></th>' in there, 
and even that would be debatable.

Daniel T. Staal

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Re: [pipe_tables] Omitting column headers not possible?

[kurt.pfeifle-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg]

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Thanks, Wagner -- that's a "good enough" method for me...  I had tried that 
even before, and it didn't work then. Probably I had some slight difference 
in syntax which I cannot remember now. 

I had read the manpage paragraphs about pipe_tables, a few times even, but 
didn't see this. Right now I tried to find the quoted sentence by running 
`man ~/.cabal/share/man5/pandoc_markdown.5` (because I have cabal-installed 
1.14.04), but this gives a manpage dated January 2013. Looks like I have to 
go online in the future in order to get the current documentation...

Thanks again.


Am Freitag, 19. Juni 2015 21:35:58 UTC+2 schrieb Wagner Macedo:
>
> According to http://pandoc.org/README.html#tables
>
> "The header cannot be omitted. To simulate a headerless table, include a 
>> header with blank cells."
>
>
> So, instead of
>
> |-----+-----|
> | 12  | 12  |
> | 123 | 123 |
>
> write
>
> |     |     |
> |-----+-----|
> | 12  | 12  |
> | 123 | 123 |
>
> I tested and worked as expected.
>
> Em sexta-feira, 19 de junho de 2015 14:29:35 UTC-3, 
> kurt.p...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org escreveu:
>>
>> Am Freitag, 19. Juni 2015 19:01:56 UTC+2 schrieb Daniel Staal:
>>
>> --As of June 19, 2015 9:51:56 AM -0700, kurt.p...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org is 
>>> alleged to have said: 
>>>
>>> > It would be very cool, and be a very fast-to-type method to create a 
>>> > one-row-table if I could just use s.th. like… 
>>> > -|- 
>>> > ![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif) 
>>> > 
>>> > …and this would create a one-row, two column table. (Exact syntax 
>>> needs 
>>> > to be discussed, though.) 
>>> > 
>>> > Questions: 
>>> >   • Could the fact that omitting column headers for for grid_tables be 
>>> > mentioned in the documentation? 
>>> >   • Could it also be mentioned in the documentation that it doesn’t 
>>> > work for pipe_tables? 
>>> >   • What obstacles are there that prevent the support for header-less 
>>> > pipe_tables? 
>>>
>>> --As for the rest, it is mine. 
>>>
>>> I think one of the largest problems with ommiting the headers in pipe 
>>> tables would be that the syntax would then look exactly like the syntax 
>>> for 
>>> line blocks, and would therefore be ambiguous about what needs to 
>>> happen. 
>>>
>>> I'm actually not even sure it'd be clear to a human what you mean.  I 
>>> know 
>>> I have trouble seeing your example as a table. 
>>>
>> I used the most “lazy” syntax I could come up with.
>>
>> Lazy pipe tables are also not so clear to humans (on first sight) what 
>> they mean… What about requiring initial and concluding pipes? Like that:
>>
>> | ![](rose.gif) | ![](../img_www/right.gif) |
>>
>> ​
>>
>

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Re: [pipe_tables] Omitting column headers not possible?

[Wagner Macedo]

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I think worths noting that the pipe table behavior was different in
versions < 1.14.
According to http://pandoc.org/releases.html#behavior-changes, on version
1.14, the pipe tables behavior changed:

Disallow headerless pipe tables (#1996), to conform to GFM and PHP Markdown
> Extra. Note: If you have been using headerless pipe tables, this change may
> cause existing tables to break.
>

--
Wagner Macedo

On 19 June 2015 at 19:56, <kurt.pfeifle-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Thanks, Wagner -- that's a "good enough" method for me...  I had tried
> that even before, and it didn't work then. Probably I had some slight
> difference in syntax which I cannot remember now.
>
> I had read the manpage paragraphs about pipe_tables, a few times even, but
> didn't see this. Right now I tried to find the quoted sentence by running
> `man ~/.cabal/share/man5/pandoc_markdown.5` (because I have cabal-installed
> 1.14.04), but this gives a manpage dated January 2013. Looks like I have to
> go online in the future in order to get the current documentation...
>
> Thanks again.
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/4938bd61-5131-4fb9-b0b8-7281acce521a%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/4938bd61-5131-4fb9-b0b8-7281acce521a%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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Re: [pipe_tables] Omitting column headers not possible?

[BP Jonsson]

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Indeed I thought I remembered that headerless pipe tables had worked. This
explains. However it seems that (1) a single pipe is an acceptable header
line, and (2) an empty header line is ignored in output, which makes this
change acceptable to me. I wonder if the old behavior really broke anything
for anyone, other than them having to be mindful which data they fed to
which program -- but you should be mindful of that always anyway.
Den 20 jun 2015 01:29 skrev "Wagner Macedo" <wagnerluis1982-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:

> I think worths noting that the pipe table behavior was different in
> versions < 1.14.
> According to http://pandoc.org/releases.html#behavior-changes, on version
> 1.14, the pipe tables behavior changed:
>
> Disallow headerless pipe tables (#1996), to conform to GFM and PHP
>> Markdown Extra. Note: If you have been using headerless pipe tables, this
>> change may cause existing tables to break.
>>
>
> --
> Wagner Macedo
>
> On 19 June 2015 at 19:56, <kurt.pfeifle-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Wagner -- that's a "good enough" method for me...  I had tried
>> that even before, and it didn't work then. Probably I had some slight
>> difference in syntax which I cannot remember now.
>>
>> I had read the manpage paragraphs about pipe_tables, a few times even,
>> but didn't see this. Right now I tried to find the quoted sentence by
>> running `man ~/.cabal/share/man5/pandoc_markdown.5` (because I have
>> cabal-installed 1.14.04), but this gives a manpage dated January 2013.
>> Looks like I have to go online in the future in order to get the current
>> documentation...
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/4938bd61-5131-4fb9-b0b8-7281acce521a%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/4938bd61-5131-4fb9-b0b8-7281acce521a%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
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Re: Omitting column headers not possible?

[John MacFarlane]

+++ kurt.pfeifle-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org [Jun 19 15 15:56 ]:
>   but didn't see this. Right now I tried to find the quoted sentence by
>   running `man ~/.cabal/share/man5/pandoc_markdown.5` (because I have
>   cabal-installed 1.14.04), but this gives a manpage dated January 2013.
>   Looks like I have to go online in the future in order to get the
>   current documentation...

Cabal doesn't provide a nice automatic way to install man
pages.  In some prior versions of pandoc I hacked something
into Setup.hs to install man pages, but I took it out again,
for reasons I can't really recall.   I should revisit this.