Re: Formatting of "ibid" in v2.11.x

[Joshua <joshua.kerr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>]

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Thanks for such a helpful, prompt reply. I've loved pandoc for a long time, 
but I had no idea the support was this good. You have a superb project here.

After consulting the style guides, it looks like pandoc is keeping with the 
times and I am not. I'm still a bit confused about your response to the 
second issue, though. Suppose I type:
Blah.^[@AugustineCityGod2008, 72.] Blah.^[Compare to the competing claim in 
@AugustineCityGod2008, 46.]

This then renders:
[1] Augustine, *City of God*, 72.
[2] Compare to the rather different claim in Augustine, ibid, 46.

Whereas the behavior I intend:
[1] Augustine, *City of God*, 72.
[2] Compare to the rather different claim in ibid, 46.

This is the behavior I achieved before upgrading pandoc, but I do not 
understand the directives I need to give in order to achieve it now. Or 
maybe I simply cannot.

Many thanks once again,
Joshua

On Wednesday, November 11, 2020 at 10:01:25 AM UTC-8 John MacFarlane wrote:

> Joshua <joshu...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:
>
> > (This is a followup to "Removing parentheses around citations in
> > footnotes": *thank you so much* for the fix there. The behavior I'm
> > noticing now is different enough that I thought it worth a separate 
> thread.)
> >
> > There seems to be an issue with "ibid." I'm using
> > chicago-note-bibliography-with-ibid.csl and a dummy file as an example.
> > Here's what I get with v2.11.1.1:
> > [1] Dodds, *Euripedes*; see also Augustine, *The City of God*.
> > [2] Augustine, *The City of God*, 72.
> > [3] Augustine, ibid, 46.
> > Note that there are two problems here: (1) it repeats the source in note 
> 2
> > instead of using "ibid",
>
> It's not clear that's a problem. Indeed, we made a change to get
> just this behavior. See
>
>
> https://github.com/jgm/citeproc/commit/5aafa0e58ce37d56677bf88f52c4e6591e867703
> https://github.com/jgm/pandoc#6813
> https://github.com/citation-style-language/documentation#121
>
> According to the spec, ibid is supposed to be triggered only when
> the cited item (a) immediately follows another cite to the same
> source within the same citation or (b) the previous citation
> "consists of a single cite referencing the same item."
>
> In this case there is some ambiguity about whether (b) is
> satisfied -- technically, it is, because the previous citation
> is just "Augustine, The City of God." However, that in-text
> citation occurs in a note with another citation, such that the
> whole thing is indistinguishable from a note citation containing
> the two items. So we treat the item as not a "single cite" in
> this case.
>
> > and (2) it repeats the author in note 3.
>
> That's because (I assume) you've used an author-in-text citation
> form, which always prints the author. Note the difference
> between
>
> blah blah [@augustine:city].
>
> and
>
> blah blah^[@augustine:city].
>
> IN the first case you have a normal citation, and the author name
> will be suppressed. In the second case, you have a footnote with
> an author-in-text citation.
>
> We need this behavior because you might say
> "@augustine:city says blah" in the main text, and we'd want
> to get "Augustine(1) says blah" with a note "(1) Ibid."
> This structure (author name + note with "ibid") gets transformed
> to "Augustine, ibid." when it is found within a note.
>
>

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