Re: Specifying location of bibliography in document

["Pablo Rodríguez" <oinos-S0/GAf8tV78@public.gmane.org>]

On 08/31/2015 09:29 PM, Daniel Staal wrote:
> --As of August 31, 2015 8:12:10 PM +0200, Pablo Rodríguez is alleged to 
> have said:
> 
>> On 08/31/2015 10:57 AM, BP Jonsson wrote:
>>> While I share your (Pablo's) irritation over the {X,HT}ML syntax for
>>> divs and spans every bit I think it is important not to confuse that
>>> issue with the any questions about the uses of divs or spans, which are
>>> orthogonal.
>>
>> Many thanks for your reply, BPJ.
>>
>> Sorry, but I gave up trying to explain pandoc (or Markdown) to anyone. I
>> was writing a manual in Spanish, but I’m afraid Markdown is too
>> complicated to explain to people with no background in text tagging.
>>
>> Probably I’m wrong in expecting that pandoc could replace word
>> proccessing programs for average users.
> 
> Probably true.  There are Markdown editors that aim for that market, but 
> pandoc isn't an editor.  It's a converter.  The editors give you a nice 
> WYSWYG interface, or at least something close, and give easy shortcuts to 
> common markup.

Many thanks for your reply, Daniel.

The problem with visual editors is that users many not know what they
are actually doing.

In that case, I think there is no gain in using pandoc.

>>> In principle we could use any markup to signal "the
>>> references go here", but the idea that that markup should be independent
>>> both of any particular place in the document and of the header (if any!)
>>> used for the references section is a sound one, and the marked div
>>> solution is a good one, semantically speaking.
>>
>> I didn’t eman that the the solution was wrong semantically speaking.
>>
>> My point is that this would be harder to understand for average people.
>> Since we already have section divisions, using them to implement
>> bibliographies placing would be easier to be understood by a new user.
> 
> Except the only actual section divisions we have are divs.  Headers don't 
> create new sections.  (Well, there is an option to make them create such, 
> but semantically and under normal use I've often seen headers within a 
> section; sub-sections, or just breaking up the flow of the text.)  They 
> often are placed at the start of new sections, but not always.

It may be my own approach to sections and their titles. Being able to
wrap a section with title and contents into a division is essential to
format chapters (or other sections) such as copyright, dedication,
epigraph and colophon pages as different from other chapters.

>> Extra paragraphs could be added as explained. And hidding a title should
>> be an easy task.
> 
> Yes, but it'd be confusing, and inconsistent.  ;)  This 'visible' marker 
> (which makes things *more* visible) in one case would now hide the text 
> instead.  Depending on what the text was, basically.  Which will eventually 
> surprise someone.
> 
> (And note that with the above mentioned option to make headers 
> automatically create divs, you could still use your version of the markup.)

My comments don’t make sense now, because the implemented solution
allows to add text both before and after the bibliography. I hadn’t
thought of that possibility.

My comment now is to avoid using XML syntax, since it is harder for
newcomers.

>> The problem I see with Markdown (and I’m afraid CommonMark doesn’t
>> solve it) is that markup is inconsistent for ordinary people.
>>
>> The simplest rule: paragraphs are formed by consecutive non-empty lines.
>> Only a blank line builds a new paragraph. Well, and what happens with
>> titles?
> 
> I honestly think you're over-thinking this.

It may be. My fundamental mistake may be be trying to make sense of
Markdown as lightweight markup.

> Titles aren't paragraphs; they are a single line of text.  *Don't* try to 
> explain them in terms of paragraphs.  Simply say that a titles are a single 
> line of text marked up in one of the ways that denotes a title.

It was only a minor issue. But do you really think that there is a need
to limit titles to a single line? In other words, does this exception
make sense?

I’m not trying to change it (mainly because of backwards compatibility),
but I don’t see any reason to handle titles as block elements in a
different way from paragraphs (in regard to this rule).


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/55E5E686.10900%40web.de.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.