From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/29189 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "'Jan' via pandoc-discuss" Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: issue with "see also" of same and different author Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 11:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <56afe475-1c44-4a9d-9b48-8f6f30608030n@googlegroups.com> References: Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_8134_322191704.1630951221542" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19329"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: pandoc-discuss Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBDE3PAE53QFRBNVO3GEQMGQEIGSQMRQ-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Mon Sep 06 20:00:25 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from mail-oo1-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mNIuu-0004oq-Ma for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 20:00:24 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-oo1-f61.google.com with SMTP id p188-20020a4a2fc50000b029028b072e133dsf4482283oop.19 for ; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 11:00:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20210112; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=t6uXxaRSlJVgE8XHucX+JYEBof1mhi32T22uVR4vwZY=; b=f/423D6fEIQ3ACVSAl7VxcY27XERqJ8BEfdprlxL3B+g0YaV78rN3ALSxYGi2doLTq to/gNiPt8jHzM1Z7fb7Vagk8PRm77KVGqSKp7ikcQTrMgP+fWtpvgfU51et8ioskLn88 5fEw4dx4reYC/DRRa2bITzqQc+pQaO2kUBe8spYs1zVPBOMO6ZcdaAAa99hmqowx1OSr ro4hqwLjrBmeYz2giGL6ZOSBMROkUxwuPyaYc4hebb5LFaCDUvK9qtmCsGj8kPUEvEsN BGNfZEo8fsLzIgYCfMxuQk9O7f3mzcSuta2o1RRsAghhYUaZ1kzHqyffbdCJSfwqAF5t TQow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=t6uXxaRSlJVgE8XHucX+JYEBof1mhi32T22uVR4vwZY=; b=OsR37LImmse3HFZXAs3ueCg1TsA7tpPCdCL4mzkXOmSUxZFMNOVcVjISVz5lqmEqeo CXkZQ9/wQTLproSkZcqDq6KcZP2FX7W4eAh0+z9vHynFHJuG6Gm6A1ahoQUeaPQT7F7i z69i1h1OcCKBsrg1z9P20+Rt+S+QgkJcCoDMnRld9kARg2QXXpCm4FPnFPnU3eEghMnL 4fMnDJgM9m9dlZe65KhqFlhHRXV5tnWTc3Qwmoo4WFogfmzT7IwYKhKhGjDn7jszVIkk SQqlnw+JmKpzDG7xUd0rZVz9GSyZM+ENprQ+4INGXN5eElTp2u1CC7F9pS5J/6uI+7OA kpkw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530uGYCFXCOLuktfof3XUqUsbc3+Z+dJ9Og+WJBEdwAQmWR3MRAh 920F91DLdPkskr/2lBDRefE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy42myZsoAi5bf311c6hLm9z590bxtR9HK3XZnSPaW+euVb8jin/Pyjib0mHnsikplr/VJHog== X-Received: by 2002:a4a:a98c:: with SMTP id w12mr14743930oom.29.1630951223678; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 11:00:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 2002:a9d:62c9:: with SMTP id z9ls1909375otk.6.gmail; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 11:00:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:1b48:: with SMTP id l66mr11877258otl.261.1630951222133; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 11:00:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: jdhauck-g/b1ySJe57IN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org X-Original-From: Jan Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.text.pandoc:29189 Archived-At: ------=_Part_8134_322191704.1630951221542 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8135_461859073.1630951221542" ------=_Part_8135_461859073.1630951221542 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks so much for looking into this. I was thinking about another possibility: Is there perhaps a way to disable sorting, but keep the collapsing? So that in cases where in a string of citations the same author appears with multiple consecutive citations, the repeated author names are omitted, but if they appear in a string of citations but not consecutively, they are kept? Does that make sense? On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 9:37:00 AM UTC-7 John MacFarlane wrote: > > As I noted on the issue, citeproc already does include code > blocking sorting that rearranges prefixes, but this seems not > to work in the case where there is also collapsing (of citations > by same author). I have to look into why. Disabling collapsing > in your style could thus be one workaround, though it would mean > that you didn't get collapsing elsewhere. > > > > "'Jan' via pandoc-discuss" > writes: > > > Thanks so much, John, I opened an issue on github. > > > > In the meanwhile, as a workaround, is there a way to disable sorting for > > CMS? > > > > On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 10:28:39 PM UTC-7 John MacFarlane > wrote: > > > >> > >> The issue won't arise if you use a style that doesn't sort > >> citations, obviously, but that may not be an option here. > >> > >> I have a vague memory that this issue has come up before > >> in pandoc-citeproc or in CSL, and that there was some solution. > >> > >> Yes: https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-citeproc/issues/292 > >> > >> Here is the fix I implemented in pandoc-citeproc: > >> > >> > >> > https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-citeproc/commit/31b463a939d4878d4c83c318976b66d723e70bf5 > >> > >> It's not in the CSL spec, so maybe it's not appropriate to > >> modify citeproc to behave this way, but it sure is tempting. > >> So if you feel like putting up a bug report on jgm/citeproc > >> with links to the URLs mentioned above, please go ahead. > >> > >> > >> "'Jan' via pandoc-discuss" > >> writes: > >> > >> > Hi all, > >> > > >> > I have a quick question. > >> > I'm processing for Chicago Manual of style author date format. > >> > pandoc -t docx --csl=.pandoc/csl/chicago-author-date.csl > >> > > >> > I'm using the following syntax > >> > [@Heller:2007i, 10; see also @Gal:1987; @Heller:1989]. > >> > > >> > for a citation that I want to render as > >> > (Heller 2007, 10; see also Gal 1987; Heller 1989) > >> > > >> > what it does, it gives me: > >> > (Heller 2007, 10, 1989; see also Gal 1987) > >> > > >> > So it moves the Heller 1989 up front to join the first citation of > the > >> same > >> > author and then, obviously deletes the author last name. > >> > Is there any way to prevent that (only for this citation)? > >> > As the other Heller citation should come after the "see also". > >> > > >> > Help much appreciated! > >> > > >> > all best > >> > > >> > Jan > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send > >> an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > >> > To view this discussion on the web visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/a4c90db8-d468-42c5-b7ac-2162ddc70492n%40googlegroups.com > >> . > >> > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/e721f4fa-f560-4ffc-a9a7-2749db068bc6n%40googlegroups.com > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/56afe475-1c44-4a9d-9b48-8f6f30608030n%40googlegroups.com. ------=_Part_8135_461859073.1630951221542 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks so much for looking into this.

I was t= hinking about another possibility:  Is there perhaps a way to disable = sorting, but keep the collapsing? 
So that in cases where in = a string of citations the same author appears with multiple consecutive cit= ations, the repeated author names are omitted, but if they appear in a stri= ng of citations but not consecutively, they are kept?   Does that= make sense? 



<= div>


On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 9:37:00 AM UTC-7 Jo= hn MacFarlane wrote:

As I noted on the issue, citeproc already does include code
blocking sorting that rearranges prefixes, but this seems not
to work in the case where there is also collapsing (of citations
by same author). I have to look into why. Disabling collapsing
in your style could thus be one workaround, though it would mean
that you didn't get collapsing elsewhere.



"'Jan' via pandoc-discuss" <pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
writes:

> Thanks so much, John, I opened an issue on github.=20
>
> In the meanwhile, as a workaround, is there a way to disable sorti= ng for=20
> CMS? =20
>
> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 10:28:39 PM UTC-7 John MacFarlan= e wrote:
>
>>
>> The issue won't arise if you use a style that doesn't = sort
>> citations, obviously, but that may not be an option here.
>>
>> I have a vague memory that this issue has come up before
>> in pandoc-citeproc or in CSL, and that there was some solution= .
>>
>> Yes: https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-citeproc/issues/292
>>
>> Here is the fix I implemented in pandoc-citeproc:
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-citeproc/commit/31b463a939d= 4878d4c83c318976b66d723e70bf5
>>
>> It's not in the CSL spec, so maybe it's not appropriat= e to
>> modify citeproc to behave this way, but it sure is tempting.
>> So if you feel like putting up a bug report on jgm/citeproc
>> with links to the URLs mentioned above, please go ahead.
>>
>>
>> "'Jan' via pandoc-discuss" <pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
>> writes:
>>
>> > Hi all,=20
>> >
>> > I have a quick question.=20
>> > I'm processing for Chicago Manual of style author dat= e format.=20
>> > pandoc -t docx --csl=3D.pandoc/csl/chicago-author-date.cs= l=20
>> >
>> > I'm using the following syntax=20
>> > [@Heller:2007i, 10; see also @Gal:1987; @Heller:1989].=20
>> >
>> > for a citation that I want to render as
>> > (Heller 2007, 10; see also Gal 1987; Heller 1989)=20
>> >
>> > what it does, it gives me:=20
>> > (Heller 2007, 10, 1989; see also Gal 1987)=20
>> >
>> > So it moves the Heller 1989 up front to join the first ci= tation of the=20
>> same=20
>> > author and then, obviously deletes the author last name.= =20
>> > Is there any way to prevent that (only for this citation)= ?=20
>> > As the other Heller citation should come after the "= see also".
>> >
>> > Help much appreciated!
>> >
>> > all best
>> >
>> > Jan
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --=20
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to t= he Google=20
>> Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails = from it, send=20
>> an email to pandoc-= discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit=20
>> https://groups.go= ogle.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/a4c90db8-d468-42c5-b7ac-2162ddc70492n%40goo= glegroups.com
>> .
>>
>
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, = send an email to pandoc-discus..= .@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/e721= f4fa-f560-4ffc-a9a7-2749db068bc6n%40googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;pandoc-discuss" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pand= oc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d= /msgid/pandoc-discuss/56afe475-1c44-4a9d-9b48-8f6f30608030n%40googlegroups.= com.
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