* Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
@ 2020-09-03 15:57 John MacFarlane
2020-09-03 16:06 ` Anton Shepelev
[not found] ` <m2blimyhsb.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: John MacFarlane @ 2020-09-03 15:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss
Currently in writing markdown (and commonmark) pandoc emits
Setext-style (underlined) headings for levels 1 and 2, ATX_style
(#) for the rest, unless the `--atx-headers` option is used
to force ATX.
Proposal: given that setext headings are becoming more
uncommon, and in view of the ugliness of switching heading
styles at level 3, default instead to ATX-style headings,
unless a new `--setext-headings` option is used.
Comments?
Note: in principle we could also change the default just
for commonmark/gfm output, not for default markdown.
However, this would still require adding a --setext-headings
option.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
2020-09-03 15:57 Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output John MacFarlane
@ 2020-09-03 16:06 ` Anton Shepelev
[not found] ` <20200903190619.e924ccd888daca8cef4460ea-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
[not found] ` <m2blimyhsb.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Anton Shepelev @ 2020-09-03 16:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw
John MacFarlane:
> Currently in writing markdown (and commonmark) pandoc
> emits Setext-style (underlined) headings for levels 1 and
> 2, ATX_style (#) for the rest, unless the `--atx-headers`
> option is used to force ATX.
>
> Proposal: given that setext headings are becoming more
> uncommon, and in view of the ugliness of switching heading
> styles at level 3, default instead to ATX-style headings,
> unless a new `--setext-headings` option is used.
>
> Comments?
In my opinion, *any* uniform heading style is better than the
current inconsistent behavior. I prefer the ATX header
format even though it does not support the breaking of long
heading into multiple lines.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
[not found] ` <20200903190619.e924ccd888daca8cef4460ea-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
@ 2020-09-03 16:21 ` BPJ
[not found] ` <CADAJKhAM7MbY3GExs38hrApHrSntg87X04sKbJTnSb1bWzQPGA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: BPJ @ 2020-09-03 16:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss
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Den tors 3 sep. 2020 18:07Anton Shepelev <anton.txt-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> skrev:
> John MacFarlane:
>
> > Currently in writing markdown (and commonmark) pandoc
> > emits Setext-style (underlined) headings for levels 1 and
> > 2, ATX_style (#) for the rest, unless the `--atx-headers`
> > option is used to force ATX.
> >
> > Proposal: given that setext headings are becoming more
> > uncommon, and in view of the ugliness of switching heading
> > styles at level 3, default instead to ATX-style headings,
> > unless a new `--setext-headings` option is used.
> >
> > Comments?
> In my opinion, *any* uniform heading style is better than the
> current inconsistent behavior.
I concur emphatically.
I prefer the ATX header
> format
So do I.
even though it does not support the breaking of long
> heading into multiple lines.
>
It could, if blank lines before and after were required (as I believe they
are by default in Pandoc's Markdown.) Headings should be short though!
However I have run into potentially troublesome cases when transcribing
older texts. It would be good if at least hard linebreaks worked (which I
believe is currently not the case.)
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* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
[not found] ` <CADAJKhAM7MbY3GExs38hrApHrSntg87X04sKbJTnSb1bWzQPGA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
@ 2020-09-03 16:51 ` Leonard Rosenthol
[not found] ` <CALu=v3LKDJpsEL-WoK8vre3uJAgrWrOeaRM0gy4RH1+kLm8Qkg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Leonard Rosenthol @ 2020-09-03 16:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw
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I'll also add my +1/me too to having a common style for headings. And
given a choice, ATX.
Leonarsd
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:21 PM BPJ <melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Den tors 3 sep. 2020 18:07Anton Shepelev <anton.txt-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> skrev:
>
>> John MacFarlane:
>>
>> > Currently in writing markdown (and commonmark) pandoc
>> > emits Setext-style (underlined) headings for levels 1 and
>> > 2, ATX_style (#) for the rest, unless the `--atx-headers`
>> > option is used to force ATX.
>> >
>> > Proposal: given that setext headings are becoming more
>> > uncommon, and in view of the ugliness of switching heading
>> > styles at level 3, default instead to ATX-style headings,
>> > unless a new `--setext-headings` option is used.
>> >
>> > Comments?
>
>
>> In my opinion, *any* uniform heading style is better than the
>> current inconsistent behavior.
>
>
> I concur emphatically.
>
> I prefer the ATX header
>> format
>
>
> So do I.
>
> even though it does not support the breaking of long
>> heading into multiple lines.
>>
>
> It could, if blank lines before and after were required (as I believe they
> are by default in Pandoc's Markdown.) Headings should be short though!
> However I have run into potentially troublesome cases when transcribing
> older texts. It would be good if at least hard linebreaks worked (which I
> believe is currently not the case.)
>
>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "pandoc-discuss" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/20200903190619.e924ccd888daca8cef4460ea%40gmail.com
>> .
>>
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> .
>
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* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
[not found] ` <CALu=v3LKDJpsEL-WoK8vre3uJAgrWrOeaRM0gy4RH1+kLm8Qkg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
@ 2020-09-03 17:11 ` Joseph Reagle
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Joseph Reagle @ 2020-09-03 17:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw
On 9/3/20 12:51 PM, Leonard Rosenthol wrote:
> I'll also add my +1/me too to having a common style for headings. And given a choice, ATX.
I always use ATX.
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* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
[not found] ` <m2blimyhsb.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
@ 2020-09-03 19:07 ` Dmitry Safronov
[not found] ` <3baeae13-8eca-4464-ac84-84c988f7a91do-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
2020-09-03 20:28 ` Denis Maier
1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Safronov @ 2020-09-03 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss
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I also prefer ATX headings.
On Thursday, 3 September 2020 17:57:59 UTC+2, John MacFarlane wrote:
>
>
> Currently in writing markdown (and commonmark) pandoc emits
> Setext-style (underlined) headings for levels 1 and 2, ATX_style
> (#) for the rest, unless the `--atx-headers` option is used
> to force ATX.
>
> Proposal: given that setext headings are becoming more
> uncommon, and in view of the ugliness of switching heading
> styles at level 3, default instead to ATX-style headings,
> unless a new `--setext-headings` option is used.
>
> Comments?
>
> Note: in principle we could also change the default just
> for commonmark/gfm output, not for default markdown.
> However, this would still require adding a --setext-headings
> option.
>
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* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
[not found] ` <m2blimyhsb.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2020-09-03 19:07 ` Dmitry Safronov
@ 2020-09-03 20:28 ` Denis Maier
[not found] ` <586af284-c52b-d1df-04d2-96fd2f52d8e3-cl+VPiYnx/1AfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Denis Maier @ 2020-09-03 20:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw
Am 03.09.2020 um 17:57 schrieb John MacFarlane:
> Proposal: given that setext headings are becoming more
> uncommon, and in view of the ugliness of switching heading
> styles at level 3, default instead to ATX-style headings,
> unless a new `--setext-headings` option is used.
>
> Comments?
>
Yes, please! I always use ATX-style headings. IMO, making this the
default would be the better approach.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
[not found] ` <586af284-c52b-d1df-04d2-96fd2f52d8e3-cl+VPiYnx/1AfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org>
@ 2020-09-03 20:37 ` MyriaCore
[not found] ` <d8df1ef0-7a5a-4a07-8758-909a262e6119n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: MyriaCore @ 2020-09-03 20:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss
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This is pretty sound to me, I get the sense that most markdown users tend
to prefer ATX headings.
On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 4:28:27 PM UTC-4 Denis Maier wrote:
>
>
> Am 03.09.2020 um 17:57 schrieb John MacFarlane:
> > Proposal: given that setext headings are becoming more
> > uncommon, and in view of the ugliness of switching heading
> > styles at level 3, default instead to ATX-style headings,
> > unless a new `--setext-headings` option is used.
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> Yes, please! I always use ATX-style headings. IMO, making this the
> default would be the better approach.
>
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* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
[not found] ` <d8df1ef0-7a5a-4a07-8758-909a262e6119n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
@ 2020-09-03 21:09 ` Pranesh Prakash
[not found] ` <39d45d2d-952a-4af3-8f3b-e9af667f2a49n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Pranesh Prakash @ 2020-09-03 21:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss
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I guess I'm in the minority — in that I don't always use atx-style
headings. I switch between atx-[1] and setext-style headings depending on
the context. In e-mails and in (plaintext) e-mail newsletters, I generally
use setext-style headings since those are easily understood even by those
who don't know about Markdown/atx. However, in all my other writings, I
use atx-style headings. I would support making atx-style headings the
default.
[1]: I've noticed that all Pandoc and CommonMark documentation uses "ATX",
whereas the original 2002 blog post by Aaron Swartz uses "atx" as does John
Gruber's 2004 blogpost on Markdown.
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* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
[not found] ` <39d45d2d-952a-4af3-8f3b-e9af667f2a49n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
@ 2020-09-04 6:00 ` Albert Krewinkel
2020-09-04 8:54 ` Anton Shepelev
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Albert Krewinkel @ 2020-09-04 6:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw
Pranesh Prakash writes:
> I guess I'm in the minority — in that I don't always use atx-style
> headings. I switch between atx-[1] and setext-style headings depending on
> the context. In e-mails and in (plaintext) e-mail newsletters, I generally
> use setext-style headings since those are easily understood even by those
> who don't know about Markdown/atx. However, in all my other writings, I
> use atx-style headings. I would support making atx-style headings the
> default.
I second this. Setext headers are great whenever it is likely that the
text will be read as unrendered plaintext. It's still what I prefer for
README files. But given the growing popularity of atx headers, it would
seem reasonable to make the latter the default.
--
Albert Krewinkel
GPG: 8eed e3e2 e8c5 6f18 81fe e836 388d c0b2 1f63 1124
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* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
2020-09-04 6:00 ` Albert Krewinkel
@ 2020-09-04 8:54 ` Anton Shepelev
2020-09-04 9:42 ` Anton Shepelev
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Anton Shepelev @ 2020-09-04 8:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw
Albert Krewinkel:
> Setext headers are great whenever it is likely that the
> text will be read as unrendered plaintext. It's still what
> I prefer for README files.
When I write true plain text that is not intended as the
source for a document processor, I dislike both Setex and
ATX headers. My plain-text headers are usually one of these
forms:
1. A simple numbered heading
A CENTERED UPPERCASE HEADING
unless I go for something fancy, like this from a RedCode
newsletter:
This issue covers silk step interactions with a focus on the tiny set-
ting. Warm up your emulator!
_______
THEORY \________________________________________________________________
Barkley Vowk's new warriors 7b15f4b8-..., 4b0804b3-..., and 7fe57f81-...
have set the new standard for tiny papers, taking the 1st, 2nd and 5th
places at Koenigstuhl at the moment of publication. [...]
Whenever it is not markup, one need limit oneself to a pre-
existing format.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
2020-09-04 8:54 ` Anton Shepelev
@ 2020-09-04 9:42 ` Anton Shepelev
[not found] ` <20200904124240.5d93260af90b10618677d8cb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Anton Shepelev @ 2020-09-04 9:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw
I wrote:
> Whenever it is not markup, one need limit oneself to a
> pre-existing format.
but meant "need not" instead of "need".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
[not found] ` <20200904124240.5d93260af90b10618677d8cb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
@ 2020-09-04 10:44 ` BPJ
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: BPJ @ 2020-09-04 10:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss
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Den fre 4 sep. 2020 11:43Anton Shepelev <anton.txt-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> skrev:
> I wrote:
>
> > Whenever it is not markup, one need limit oneself to a
> > pre-existing format.
>
> but meant "need not" instead of "need".
>
So I understood, but README files on GitHub are a little special: they need
to look good both when rendered as Markdown on the website and when read as
plain text by someone who has cloned the repository locally. I however
usually assume that in the latter case people will know Markdown and how it
works.
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>
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* Re: Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output
[not found] ` <3baeae13-8eca-4464-ac84-84c988f7a91do-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
@ 2020-09-04 16:09 ` John MacFarlane
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: John MacFarlane @ 2020-09-04 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dmitry Safronov, pandoc-discuss
Seems to be a landslide in favor of changing the default.
I've added an issue:
https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/issues/6662
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2020-09-03 15:57 Proposal: default to ATX-style headings in markdown output John MacFarlane
2020-09-03 16:06 ` Anton Shepelev
[not found] ` <20200903190619.e924ccd888daca8cef4460ea-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2020-09-03 16:21 ` BPJ
[not found] ` <CADAJKhAM7MbY3GExs38hrApHrSntg87X04sKbJTnSb1bWzQPGA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-09-03 16:51 ` Leonard Rosenthol
[not found] ` <CALu=v3LKDJpsEL-WoK8vre3uJAgrWrOeaRM0gy4RH1+kLm8Qkg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-09-03 17:11 ` Joseph Reagle
[not found] ` <m2blimyhsb.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2020-09-03 19:07 ` Dmitry Safronov
[not found] ` <3baeae13-8eca-4464-ac84-84c988f7a91do-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
2020-09-04 16:09 ` John MacFarlane
2020-09-03 20:28 ` Denis Maier
[not found] ` <586af284-c52b-d1df-04d2-96fd2f52d8e3-cl+VPiYnx/1AfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org>
2020-09-03 20:37 ` MyriaCore
[not found] ` <d8df1ef0-7a5a-4a07-8758-909a262e6119n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
2020-09-03 21:09 ` Pranesh Prakash
[not found] ` <39d45d2d-952a-4af3-8f3b-e9af667f2a49n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
2020-09-04 6:00 ` Albert Krewinkel
2020-09-04 8:54 ` Anton Shepelev
2020-09-04 9:42 ` Anton Shepelev
[not found] ` <20200904124240.5d93260af90b10618677d8cb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2020-09-04 10:44 ` BPJ
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