Fountain support

Fountain support

[Alex]

Hi,

There is a Markdownish syntax called Fountain (formerly SPMD) for
writing screenplays:
http://fountain.io/

I would love to see Pandoc support this (admittedly fledgling) syntax.

(I should really get an account on github, but that will mean setting
myself up for actually learning how to use git, rather than, you know,
writing.)

Alex

Re: Fountain support

[Phil Soundczek]

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push

I'am also very interested in this feature and could create an issue on 
github.

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Re: Fountain support

[vixsomnis]

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I'd also love to see Pandoc support for fountain. I'm going to be 
reformatting and revising a folder full of .docx scenes into the fountain 
format (for compatibility reasons and so I can write with vim), so I'll 
need a high quality exporter eventually.

I don't know Haskell (and it'll take me a while to learn if need be). Is 
there anyone else who'd like to convert from this format?

On Thursday, February 16, 2012 at 12:45:35 PM UTC-5, Alex wrote:
>
> Hi, 
>
> There is a Markdownish syntax called Fountain (formerly SPMD) for 
> writing screenplays: 
> http://fountain.io/ 
>
> I would love to see Pandoc support this (admittedly fledgling) syntax. 
>
> (I should really get an account on github, but that will mean setting 
> myself up for actually learning how to use git, rather than, you know, 
> writing.) 
>
> Alex

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Re: Fountain support

[daniel]

Looking at it, I'm not sure how well it would work with Pandoc.  Not 
that it doesn't look like an interesting, worthwhile, and 
well-thought-out format.  However, it doesn't map to the same structure 
as other Pandoc formats: There's no real 'heading', 'paragraph', 
'emphasis', etc.  The internal document structure is completely 
different than what Pandoc models, which would make it hard to do a good 
conversion.  (That's not to say someone couldn't do a 'working' 
conversion: declare that scene changes are one level of heading, 
character names are another, etc.  But the end result after a Pandoc 
conversion wouldn't look much like a screen play any more.)

If you're looking for converters, I'd take a look at the apps on the 
Fountain website, personally.

Daniel T. Staal

On 2015-06-22 20:09, vixsomnis wrote:
> I'd also love to see Pandoc support for fountain. I'm going to be
> reformatting and revising a folder full of .docx scenes into the
> fountain format (for compatibility reasons and so I can write with
> vim), so I'll need a high quality exporter eventually.
> 
> I don't know Haskell (and it'll take me a while to learn if need be).
> Is there anyone else who'd like to convert from this format?
> 
> On Thursday, February 16, 2012 at 12:45:35 PM UTC-5, Alex wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> There is a Markdownish syntax called Fountain (formerly SPMD) for
>> writing screenplays:
>> http://fountain.io/ [1]
>> 
>> I would love to see Pandoc support this (admittedly fledgling)
>> syntax.
>> 
>> (I should really get an account on github, but that will mean
>> setting
>> myself up for actually learning how to use git, rather than, you
>> know,
>> writing.)
>> 
>> Alex
> 
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> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffountain.io%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEngodn5DWO8lJ5NIYf75F72SodNA
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Re: Fountain support

[Christian Demsar]

I may have misunderstood Pandoc's native format. In any case, I'll look
closer at the other apps, as I really only need to be able to export,
not so much convert back and forth.

-- 
vs

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015, at 10:01 PM, daniel wrote:
> 
> Looking at it, I'm not sure how well it would work with Pandoc.  Not 
> that it doesn't look like an interesting, worthwhile, and 
> well-thought-out format.  However, it doesn't map to the same structure 
> as other Pandoc formats: There's no real 'heading', 'paragraph', 
> 'emphasis', etc.  The internal document structure is completely 
> different than what Pandoc models, which would make it hard to do a good 
> conversion.  (That's not to say someone couldn't do a 'working' 
> conversion: declare that scene changes are one level of heading, 
> character names are another, etc.  But the end result after a Pandoc 
> conversion wouldn't look much like a screen play any more.)
> 
> If you're looking for converters, I'd take a look at the apps on the 
> Fountain website, personally.
> 
> Daniel T. Staal

Re: Fountain support

[daniel]

On 2015-06-22 22:09, Christian Demsar wrote:
> I may have misunderstood Pandoc's native format. In any case, I'll look
> closer at the other apps, as I really only need to be able to export,
> not so much convert back and forth.

It's not so much the format (Pandoc's native Markdown variant is plain 
text as well), it's the document model.  Pandoc 'thinks' in terms of 
headings, paragraphs, emphasis, tables, etc.  Fountain 'thinks' in terms 
of scene changes, actions, character dialog, etc.  Pandoc converts from 
one format to another by mapping things to it's internal document model 
and then writing them back out: it knows that 'this is what a paragraph 
looks like' in each of it's formats.  But Fountain doesn't *have* 
paragraphs.  Or headings.  Or emphasis.   So it would be hard to get 
Pandoc to understand what is being meant - it doesn't have the same 
concepts.

Other Markdown converters might be easier to adapt, as they might not be 
quite as tightly tied to a document model as Pandoc.  For Pandoc, it's 
usually a strength: Most documents people write can be modeled into the 
standard 'headings, paragraphs and tables' model that Pandoc uses, so it 
makes it easy to write converters to and from different formats that use 
the same document model.  On the other hand, there is this problem that 
the model also acts as a limit to what is easy to do.

(Of course, I'm not a Pandoc developer - I'm just a user who has done 
other programming, so I see a possible problem.)

In the end, you are wanting something to look right - so that humans can 
see what document model you are using and understand it.  At least one 
of the apps they list exports to PDF, so I assume they've worked on the 
aesthetics of the conversion.

Daniel T. Staal

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Re: Fountain support

[Bartleby]

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On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 9:56:41 PM UTC-5, daniel wrote:
>
> On 2015-06-22 22:09, Christian Demsar wrote: 
> > I may have misunderstood Pandoc's native format. In any case, I'll look 
> > closer at the other apps, as I really only need to be able to export, 
> > not so much convert back and forth. 
>
> It's not so much the format (Pandoc's native Markdown variant is plain 
> text as well), it's the document model.  Pandoc 'thinks' in terms of 
> headings, paragraphs, emphasis, tables, etc.  Fountain 'thinks' in terms 
> of scene changes, actions, character dialog, etc.  Pandoc converts from 
> one format to another by mapping things to it's internal document model 
> and then writing them back out: it knows that 'this is what a paragraph 
> looks like' in each of it's formats.  But Fountain doesn't *have* 
> paragraphs.  Or headings.  Or emphasis.   So it would be hard to get 
> Pandoc to understand what is being meant - it doesn't have the same 
> concepts. 
>
> Other Markdown converters might be easier to adapt, as they might not be 
> quite as tightly tied to a document model as Pandoc.  For Pandoc, it's 
> usually a strength: Most documents people write can be modeled into the 
> standard 'headings, paragraphs and tables' model that Pandoc uses, so it 
> makes it easy to write converters to and from different formats that use 
> the same document model.  On the other hand, there is this problem that 
> the model also acts as a limit to what is easy to do. 
>
> (Of course, I'm not a Pandoc developer - I'm just a user who has done 
> other programming, so I see a possible problem.) 
>
> In the end, you are wanting something to look right - so that humans can 
> see what document model you are using and understand it.  At least one 
> of the apps they list exports to PDF, so I assume they've worked on the 
> aesthetics of the conversion. 
>
> Daniel T. Staal 
>
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> This email copyright the author.  Unless otherwise noted, you 
> are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use 
> the contents for non-commercial purposes.  This copyright will 
> expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, 
> whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of 
> local copyright law. 
> --------------------------------------------------------------- 
>

This won't help with the docx conversion, but I use Textplay (Ruby)

https://github.com/olivertaylor/Textplay

You must install Prince to make the PDF

The more I learn about Pandoc, I agree with Daniel, it's an entirely 
different document model. I think a stand-alone converter like Textplay 
makes more sense for screenplays. 

If you are on Mac, there is Marked 2

http://marked2app.com/  (about $10) nice viewer too. It handles fountain 
and exports to pdf.

 Anything works better than Highland.  

http://quoteunquoteapps.com/highland/

Which started out looking like a promising conversion program, but the app 
makers decided to make a toy text editor to go with it. Plus NO COMMAND 
LINE INTERFACE, so you are trapped inside the toy GUI for everything.

Rick Dooling
 

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Re: Fountain support

[Bartleby]

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On Thursday, February 16, 2012 at 11:45:35 AM UTC-6, Alex wrote:
>
> Hi, 
>
> There is a Markdownish syntax called Fountain (formerly SPMD) for 
> writing screenplays: 
> http://fountain.io/ 
>
> I would love to see Pandoc support this (admittedly fledgling) syntax. 
>
> (I should really get an account on github, but that will mean setting 
> myself up for actually learning how to use git, rather than, you know, 
> writing.) 
>
> Alex


If all you want is one-man version control on your local machine, git is 
pretty easy to learn. 
Even adding Github is not that big a deal if it's just you. I think when it 
gets complex is when you try to contribute to other projects. That's hard. 
But for just one or two writers collaborating it's quite nice. 

Rick Dooling 

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Re: Fountain support

[John MacFarlane]

Thinking more about this:  I don't see why there couldn't be
a pandoc *reader* for Fountain.  This would just convert the
Fountain categories into appropriate presentational forms.

The utility would be that you could use pandoc to render a
Fountain script into docx, or whatever.

Re: Fountain support

[Rick Dooling]

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Your brain is a lot bigger than mine, John. But I wonder if the docx 
capability would be worth the labor.

There are quirks dealing with page breaks in the middle of dialogue and 
dual dialogue and the like. 

Also in terms of the industry, Fountain and its various conversion programs 
are great for making a screenplay PDF you can show to others and edit with 
your favorite text editor and so on, but ultimately if you sell the 
screenplay or put it in production you are going to end up in Final Draft 
or Movie Magic Screenwriter, both of which have industry-wide production 
features. The blue draft, the pink draft, the green draft. The concept of 
LOCKED pages and such. So except for people wanting to convert old 
screenplays written in doc or docx, I doubt there would be much call for, 
say, going from Fountain to Word. But others may have a different opinion. 

That's why most of the conversion programs focus on converting Markdown to 
pdf or Markdown to FDX (Final Draft's XML).

Rick

On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 11:42:41 AM UTC-5, John MacFarlane wrote:
>
> Thinking more about this:  I don't see why there couldn't be 
> a pandoc *reader* for Fountain.  This would just convert the 
> Fountain categories into appropriate presentational forms. 
>
> The utility would be that you could use pandoc to render a 
> Fountain script into docx, or whatever. 
>
>

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Re: Fountain support

[John MacFarlane]

I see.  Well, I won't pursue it further then.

Re: Fountain support

[vixsomnis]

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The reason why I actually started looking for a markdown format like 
fountain was because I am a programmer and I know git. I'm only using a 
single branch and I'm the only contributor to commit changes, but git could 
scale well for collaborative writing also (except that it's hard to use for 
non-techies).

I agree that pandoc's internal document model doesn't fit the screenplay. 
Pandoc seems to work semantically (every section has a meaning), but it's 
only effective if that semantic language is present in the format. 
Screenplays are another beast entirely.

That doesn't mean it's not possible to convert between different formats, 
though. It would just have to be a different tool. Afaict, the only piece 
of pandoc that isn't hot-swappable is the middle part (the 
internal/semantic/generic model), but that's the one that would need 
changing.

On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-4, Rick Dooling wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 16, 2012 at 11:45:35 AM UTC-6, Alex wrote:
>>
>> Hi, 
>>
>> There is a Markdownish syntax called Fountain (formerly SPMD) for 
>> writing screenplays: 
>> http://fountain.io/ 
>>
>> I would love to see Pandoc support this (admittedly fledgling) syntax. 
>>
>> (I should really get an account on github, but that will mean setting 
>> myself up for actually learning how to use git, rather than, you know, 
>> writing.) 
>>
>> Alex
>
>
> If all you want is one-man version control on your local machine, git is 
> pretty easy to learn. 
> Even adding Github is not that big a deal if it's just you. I think when 
> it gets complex is when you try to contribute to other projects. That's 
> hard. But for just one or two writers collaborating it's quite nice. 
>
> Rick Dooling 
>

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Re: Fountain support

[Dylan Kinnett]

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I wonder if the LaTeX package, "Stage" would be of any use?
http://ctan.math.utah.edu/ctan/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/stage/stage-documentation.pdf

Both Fountain and this package have a clear sense of the different 
component parts of the script. If only there were a bridge between them.

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