License terms for pandoc's default templates

License terms for pandoc's default templates

['Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss]

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Hi,

I'd like to ask for clarification on the license terms for pandoc's default 
template files.
According to the COPYRIGHT file, pandoc's templates can be licensed under 
either the GPL version 2 (or any later version) or the 3-clause BSD license.
Taking these licenses literally, I've come to the conclusion that we *might* 
be required to include a copyright notice and the license text (of our 
choice) in the documents generated from these templates (and/or in the 
accompanying materials).
This would not be a problem per se, pandoc is a great and immensely useful 
tool, and we want to make sure we are using it in accordance with its 
license terms.
However, while I suppose you *could* interpret the license terms that way, 
I'm not so sure that was the intent.

For example from the 3-clause BSD license:

> 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, 
this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
> 
> 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright 
notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the 
documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.

I guess it boils down to whether the generated documents are considered 
"redistributions" of the templates.
I may be way off (not a lawyer), but perhaps others have also wondered 
about this, and it might even be worth adding some clarifying wording to 
the COPYRIGHT file.


Regards,
Julian Reich

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Re: License terms for pandoc's default templates

[John MacFarlane]

These are issues that go beyond my legal knowledge. I don't think the generated documents
would count as redistributions of the templates.  They are derivative works, certainly, which is
relevant to the GPL license but maybe not BSD?

What I can say is that I certainly never intended a requirement that documents generated
using these templates contain a copyright or license notice.


> On Jul 19, 2023, at 5:14 PM, 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss <pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'd like to ask for clarification on the license terms for pandoc's default template files.
> According to the COPYRIGHT file, pandoc's templates can be licensed under either the GPL version 2 (or any later version) or the 3-clause BSD license.
> Taking these licenses literally, I've come to the conclusion that we might be required to include a copyright notice and the license text (of our choice) in the documents generated from these templates (and/or in the accompanying materials).
> This would not be a problem per se, pandoc is a great and immensely useful tool, and we want to make sure we are using it in accordance with its license terms.
> However, while I suppose you could interpret the license terms that way, I'm not so sure that was the intent.
> 
> For example from the 3-clause BSD license:
> 
> > 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
> > 
> > 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
> 
> I guess it boils down to whether the generated documents are considered "redistributions" of the templates.
> I may be way off (not a lawyer), but perhaps others have also wondered about this, and it might even be worth adding some clarifying wording to the COPYRIGHT file.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Julian Reich
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
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Re: License terms for pandoc's default templates

['Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss]

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Hi,

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:36:49 AM UTC+2 John MacFarlane wrote:

What I can say is that I certainly never intended a requirement that 
documents generated 
using these templates contain a copyright or license notice. 


Thank you for your prompt response and clarification.
The more I think about it: if we consider the template to be a program 
itself, and the generated document to be the output of that program, it 
seems rather far-fetched that the license of the program should extend to 
its output.
Then again, these are just my personal rationalizations, still not a lawyer.


Regards,
Julian Reich

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Re: License terms for pandoc's default templates

[Bastien DUMONT]

For the mere pleasure of discussing theoretical legal aspects, here is a Q&A that clarifies the issue (especially the first paragraph): https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WMS

Le Monday 24 July 2023 à 02:05:36AM, 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:36:49 AM UTC+2 John MacFarlane wrote:
> 
>     What I can say is that I certainly never intended a requirement that
>     documents generated
>     using these templates contain a copyright or license notice.
> 
> 
> Thank you for your prompt response and clarification.
> The more I think about it: if we consider the template to be a program itself,
> and the generated document to be the output of that program, it seems rather
> far-fetched that the license of the program should extend to its output.
> Then again, these are just my personal rationalizations, still not a lawyer.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Julian Reich
> 
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
> to [1]pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> To view this discussion on the web visit [2]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> pandoc-discuss/81877b75-2b0b-4813-a073-b93f79909a28n%40googlegroups.com.
> 
> References:
> 
> [1] mailto:pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> [2] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/81877b75-2b0b-4813-a073-b93f79909a28n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

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Re: License terms for pandoc's default templates

[Daniel Littlewood]

I suspect that the pandoc templates are not sufficiently novel to be protected.
In particular, see https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLOutput (quoted
below, my emphasis)

> ... the only way you have a say in the use of the output is if *substantial
> parts of the output* are copied (more or less) from text in your program

Having at least looked at the HTML template, I don't think it would qualify as
a "creative work" at all. You could add a clarification to the LICENSE that
it's pandoc's position that output documents are not copyrightable, or you
could explicitly license them as Public Domain / some Permissive license. But I
doubt that it's necessary - it's intuitively obvious that the output of pandoc
should inherit the license of its input.

All the best,
Dan

On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 10:28 AM Bastien DUMONT
<bastien.dumont-VwIFZPTo/vqsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> For the mere pleasure of discussing theoretical legal aspects, here is a Q&A that clarifies the issue (especially the first paragraph): https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WMS
>
> Le Monday 24 July 2023 à 02:05:36AM, 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss a écrit :
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:36:49 AM UTC+2 John MacFarlane wrote:
> >
> >     What I can say is that I certainly never intended a requirement that
> >     documents generated
> >     using these templates contain a copyright or license notice.
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your prompt response and clarification.
> > The more I think about it: if we consider the template to be a program itself,
> > and the generated document to be the output of that program, it seems rather
> > far-fetched that the license of the program should extend to its output.
> > Then again, these are just my personal rationalizations, still not a lawyer.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Julian Reich
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "pandoc-discuss" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
> > to [1]pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> > To view this discussion on the web visit [2]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> > pandoc-discuss/81877b75-2b0b-4813-a073-b93f79909a28n%40googlegroups.com.
> >
> > References:
> >
> > [1] mailto:pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> > [2] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/81877b75-2b0b-4813-a073-b93f79909a28n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>
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