Math whitespace commands and docx output

Math whitespace commands and docx output

[Thomas J. Duck]

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Hi there,

Pandoc seems to ignore math whitespace commands when the output format is 
docx (as viewed with LibreOffice 5.2.3.3).  For example, the \qquad in the 
following equation is ignored:

$$ y = mx + b \qquad (1) $$

It works for LaTeX and html output.

This is a simple example: Whitespace is used for many purposes in writing 
equations.

Is this a bug, or am I missing something?  Is there a workaround?

Thanks,
Tom

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Re: Math whitespace commands and docx output

[John MacFarlane]

You can see how pandoc handles whitespace here (using the
texmath executable from texmath):

% echo "\\qquad" | texmath -t omml
<m:oMathPara>
  <m:oMathParaPr>
    <m:jc m:val="center" />
  </m:oMathParaPr>
  <m:oMath>
    <m:r>
      <m:t>  </m:t>
    </m:r>
  </m:oMath>
</m:oMathPara>

It uses a "text" node with an appropriate combination of unicode
whitespaces.  I don't know if there's a better way to do this,
but I can say that the results look fine in Word, so this may be
a LibreOffice issue.


+++ Thomas J. Duck [Nov 24 16 07:52 ]:
>   Hi there,
>   Pandoc seems to ignore math whitespace commands when the output format
>   is docx (as viewed with LibreOffice 5.2.3.3).  For example, the \qquad
>   in the following equation is ignored:
>   $$ y = mx + b \qquad (1) $$
>   It works for LaTeX and html output.
>   This is a simple example: Whitespace is used for many purposes in
>   writing equations.
>   Is this a bug, or am I missing something?  Is there a workaround?
>   Thanks,
>   Tom
>
>   --
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>
>References
>
>   1. mailto:pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
>   2. mailto:pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
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>   4. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

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Re: Math whitespace commands and docx output

[Denis José Navas Vega]

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I made some tests that I wish to share with the group.

This is the ecuation in docx as readed by LibreOffice: 

    {y =m x +b  none  none  \( 1  \)}

You can observe that LibreOffice can't interprete the quad spaces and 
translates 
it as 'none'.

The same equation generated by Pandoc from markdown to odt, lacks the 
space. 
If made directly with the LibreOffice suite, its equation editor provides a 
tilde 
'~' character with provides a 'large space' according to LibreOffice 
MathGuide. 
It is necessary to use four tildes to equal the space of an quad as viewed 
in 
MS Office. For a qquad are necesary 8 tildes ('~~~~~~~~') to represent that 
space. Thats is explained in the following text:


    From Math-guide (pag 38):

    Space at the end of a formula

    The grave accent ` inserts a small additional space into the formula; 
the 
    tilde ~ inserts a larger one. In the basic installation, these symbols 
are 
    ignored when they occur at the end of a formula. However, when working 
with
    running text, it may be necessary to include spacing at the end of 
formulas 
    as well. This customization is only available when you are working with 
a 
    Math document, and not when you are embedding a Math object.

The next code is an export of LibreOffice Math as MathML 1.01, of the 
equation written in LibreOffice:

    ~~~
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

    <math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" display="block">
     <semantics>
      <mrow>
       <mrow>
        <mi>y</mi>
        <mo stretchy="false">=</mo>
        <mi>m</mi>
       </mrow>
       <mrow>
        <mi>x</mi>
        <mo stretchy="false">+</mo>
        <mi>b</mi>
       </mrow>
       <mspace width="16em"/>
       <mo stretchy="false">(</mo>
       <mn>1</mn>
       <mo stretchy="false">)</mo>
      </mrow>
      <annotation encoding="StarMath 5.0">{y = m x + b ~~~~~~~~ \(  1  
\)}</annotation>
     </semantics>
    </math>
    ~~~

I verified with 
[Wolfram Research](http://www.mathmlcentral.com/Tools/ValidateMathML.jsp) 
and reports that "The input is valid MathML".


Pandoc's manual states (p46, pdf):

    Docx It will be rendered using OMML math markup.

    RTF, OpenDocument, ODT It will be rendered, if possible, using unicode
    characters, and will otherwise appear verbatim.


LibreOffice MathGuide informs that are some limitations converting math 
objects 
from docx to odt; therefore its preferable the direct route markdown --> 
odt. 
But my test shows that what Pandoc's generate is not understood as spaces
 by LibreOffice.

Here I reproduce the manual aboout conversion by LibreOffice from docx to 
odt 
(pag 42), that confirms the restrictions from docx to odt.

    Microsoft file formats

    The options in Tools > Options > Load/Save > Microsoft Office [in 
LibreOffice]
    control how the import and export of Microsoft Office file formats is 
    carried out in regard to formulas.

    Loading

    If [L] is checked, LibreOffice converts Microsoft formulas into native
    format when a document is loaded. This is possible if the formulas
    were created with MathType 4 (up to version 3.1) or with the Microsoft
    Equation Editor. The latter is a reduced, older version of MathType
    licensed by Microsoft and included in the Microsoft Office package.

    Formulas created by newer versions of MathType or by the new Microsoft
    formula editor “OMML 5 Equation Editor” (Microsoft Office Suite 2010
    and to some extent 2007) cannot be converted.

    If a document created in Microsoft Office 2010 and containing an OMML
    formula is saved into a .doc file format, Microsoft Office converts
    the formula into a graphic. Only this graphic is then accessible to
    LibreOffice.

    If you load a .docx document that contains OMML formulas, these fail
    in conversion whether [L] is checked or not.

    Inside Microsoft Office, formulas created with MathType or Microsoft
    Equation Editor are treated as OLE objects. If [L] is not checked,
    LibreOffice maintains this. Double-clicking on the object launches
    MathType and new formulas can be inserted using Insert > Object > OLE
    Object. This setup is to be recommended if you have MathType installed
    and wish to use it to create and edit formulas.

Therefore, is preferable the direct route 'markdown --> odt' and look by 
mechanisms to get the \qquad spaces. Its preferable to settle on math 
expressed with TeX commands, because is a referent on the field.


El viernes, 25 de noviembre de 2016, 4:35:47 (UTC-6), John MacFarlane 
escribió:
>
> You can see how pandoc handles whitespace here (using the 
> texmath executable from texmath): 
>
> % echo "\\qquad" | texmath -t omml 
> <m:oMathPara> 
>   <m:oMathParaPr> 
>     <m:jc m:val="center" /> 
>   </m:oMathParaPr> 
>   <m:oMath> 
>     <m:r> 
>       <m:t> </m:t> 
>     </m:r> 
>   </m:oMath> 
> </m:oMathPara> 
>
> It uses a "text" node with an appropriate combination of unicode 
> whitespaces.  I don't know if there's a better way to do this, 
> but I can say that the results look fine in Word, so this may be 
> a LibreOffice issue. 
>
>
> +++ Thomas J. Duck [Nov 24 16 07:52 ]: 
> >   Hi there, 
> >   Pandoc seems to ignore math whitespace commands when the output format 
> >   is docx (as viewed with LibreOffice 5.2.3.3).  For example, the \qquad 
> >   in the following equation is ignored: 
> >   $$ y = mx + b \qquad (1) $$ 
> >   It works for LaTeX and html output. 
> >   This is a simple example: Whitespace is used for many purposes in 
> >   writing equations. 
> >   Is this a bug, or am I missing something?  Is there a workaround? 
> >   Thanks, 
> >   Tom 
> > 
> >   -- 
> >   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> >   Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. 
> >   To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> >   an email to [1]pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org <javascript:>. 
> >   To post to this group, send email to 
> >   [2]pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org <javascript:>. 
> >   To view this discussion on the web visit 
> >   [3]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/417644b0-297f-42de- 
> >   9678-f622120644b4%40googlegroups.com. 
> >   For more options, visit [4]https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
> > 
> >References 
> > 
> >   1. mailto:pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org <javascript:> 
> >   2. mailto:pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org <javascript:> 
> >   3. 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/417644b0-297f-42de-9678-f622120644b4-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer 
> >   4. https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>
>

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Re: Math whitespace commands and docx output

[John MacFarlane]

If OpenDocument (the XML format used in ODT) uses MathML,
then pandoc can create that instead of "faking it with
unicode" as it does now for OpenDocument.



+++ Denis José Navas Vega [Nov 25 16 20:25 ]:
>   I made some tests that I wish to share with the group.
>   This is the ecuation in docx as readed by LibreOffice:
>       {y =m x +b  none  none  \( 1  \)}
>   You can observe that LibreOffice can't interprete the quad spaces and
>   translates
>   it as 'none'.
>   The same equation generated by Pandoc from markdown to odt, lacks the
>   space.
>   If made directly with the LibreOffice suite, its equation editor
>   provides a tilde
>   '~' character with provides a 'large space' according to LibreOffice
>   MathGuide.
>   It is necessary to use four tildes to equal the space of an quad as
>   viewed in
>   MS Office. For a qquad are necesary 8 tildes ('~~~~~~~~') to represent
>   that
>   space. Thats is explained in the following text:
>       From Math-guide (pag 38):
>       Space at the end of a formula
>       The grave accent ` inserts a small additional space into the
>   formula; the
>       tilde ~ inserts a larger one. In the basic installation, these
>   symbols are
>       ignored when they occur at the end of a formula. However, when
>   working with
>       running text, it may be necessary to include spacing at the end of
>   formulas
>       as well. This customization is only available when you are working
>   with a
>       Math document, and not when you are embedding a Math object.
>   The next code is an export of LibreOffice Math as MathML 1.01, of the
>   equation written in LibreOffice:
>       ~~~
>       <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>       <math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" display="block">
>        <semantics>
>         <mrow>
>          <mrow>
>           <mi>y</mi>
>           <mo stretchy="false">=</mo>
>           <mi>m</mi>
>          </mrow>
>          <mrow>
>           <mi>x</mi>
>           <mo stretchy="false">+</mo>
>           <mi>b</mi>
>          </mrow>
>          <mspace width="16em"/>
>          <mo stretchy="false">(</mo>
>          <mn>1</mn>
>          <mo stretchy="false">)</mo>
>         </mrow>
>         <annotation encoding="StarMath 5.0">{y = m x + b ~~~~~~~~ \(  1
>   \)}</annotation>
>        </semantics>
>       </math>
>       ~~~
>   I verified with
>   [Wolfram
>   Research](http://www.mathmlcentral.com/Tools/ValidateMathML.jsp)
>   and reports that "The input is valid MathML".
>   Pandoc's manual states (p46, pdf):
>       Docx It will be rendered using OMML math markup.
>       RTF, OpenDocument, ODT It will be rendered, if possible, using
>   unicode
>       characters, and will otherwise appear verbatim.
>   LibreOffice MathGuide informs that are some limitations converting math
>   objects
>   from docx to odt; therefore its preferable the direct route markdown
>   --> odt.
>   But my test shows that what Pandoc's generate is not understood as
>   spaces
>    by LibreOffice.
>   Here I reproduce the manual aboout conversion by LibreOffice from docx
>   to odt
>   (pag 42), that confirms the restrictions from docx to odt.
>       Microsoft file formats
>       The options in Tools > Options > Load/Save > Microsoft Office [in
>   LibreOffice]
>       control how the import and export of Microsoft Office file formats
>   is
>       carried out in regard to formulas.
>       Loading
>       If [L] is checked, LibreOffice converts Microsoft formulas into
>   native
>       format when a document is loaded. This is possible if the formulas
>       were created with MathType 4 (up to version 3.1) or with the
>   Microsoft
>       Equation Editor. The latter is a reduced, older version of MathType
>       licensed by Microsoft and included in the Microsoft Office package.
>       Formulas created by newer versions of MathType or by the new
>   Microsoft
>       formula editor “OMML 5 Equation Editor” (Microsoft Office Suite
>   2010
>       and to some extent 2007) cannot be converted.
>       If a document created in Microsoft Office 2010 and containing an
>   OMML
>       formula is saved into a .doc file format, Microsoft Office converts
>       the formula into a graphic. Only this graphic is then accessible to
>       LibreOffice.
>       If you load a .docx document that contains OMML formulas, these
>   fail
>       in conversion whether [L] is checked or not.
>       Inside Microsoft Office, formulas created with MathType or
>   Microsoft
>       Equation Editor are treated as OLE objects. If [L] is not checked,
>       LibreOffice maintains this. Double-clicking on the object launches
>       MathType and new formulas can be inserted using Insert > Object >
>   OLE
>       Object. This setup is to be recommended if you have MathType
>   installed
>       and wish to use it to create and edit formulas.
>   Therefore, is preferable the direct route 'markdown --> odt' and look
>   by
>   mechanisms to get the \qquad spaces. Its preferable to settle on math
>   expressed with TeX commands, because is a referent on the field.
>   El viernes, 25 de noviembre de 2016, 4:35:47 (UTC-6), John MacFarlane
>   escribió:
>
>     You can see how pandoc handles whitespace here (using the
>     texmath executable from texmath):
>     % echo "\\qquad" | texmath -t omml
>     <m:oMathPara>
>       <m:oMathParaPr>
>         <m:jc m:val="center" />
>       </m:oMathParaPr>
>       <m:oMath>
>         <m:r>
>           <m:t>  </m:t>
>         </m:r>
>       </m:oMath>
>     </m:oMathPara>
>     It uses a "text" node with an appropriate combination of unicode
>     whitespaces.  I don't know if there's a better way to do this,
>     but I can say that the results look fine in Word, so this may be
>     a LibreOffice issue.
>     +++ Thomas J. Duck [Nov 24 16 07:52 ]:
>     >   Hi there,
>     >   Pandoc seems to ignore math whitespace commands when the output
>     format
>     >   is docx (as viewed with LibreOffice 5.2.3.3).  For example, the
>     \qquad
>     >   in the following equation is ignored:
>     >   $$ y = mx + b \qquad (1) $$
>     >   It works for LaTeX and html output.
>     >   This is a simple example: Whitespace is used for many purposes
>     in
>     >   writing equations.
>     >   Is this a bug, or am I missing something?  Is there a
>     workaround?
>     >   Thanks,
>     >   Tom
>     >
>     >   --
>     >   You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>     Google
>     >   Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
>     >   To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>     it, send
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>     417644b0-297f-42de-
>     >   9678-f622120644b4%[4]40googlegroups.com.
>     >   For more options, visit [4][5]https://groups.google.com/
>     d/optout.
>     >
>     >References
>     >
>     >   1. mailto:[6]pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
>     >   2. mailto:[7]pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
>     >   3. [8]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/417644b0-
>     297f-42de-9678-f622120644b4-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org?utm_medium=
>     email&utm_source=footer
>     >   4. [9]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
>
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>   -a98a-1dc36a68c3ce%40googlegroups.com.
>   For more options, visit [13]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>References
>
>   1. javascript:/
>   2. javascript:/
>   3. https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/417644b0-297f-42de-
>   4. http://40googlegroups.com/
>   5. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
>   6. javascript:/
>   7. javascript:/
>   8. https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/417644b0-297f-42de-9678-f622120644b4-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>   9. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
>  10. mailto:pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
>  11. mailto:pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
>  12. https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/33f0e49f-edaa-435f-a98a-1dc36a68c3ce-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>  13. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

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Re: Math whitespace commands and docx output

[John MacFarlane]

Sorry...I'd forgotten that the ODT writer already does
use MathML for formulas.

They don't display very well in LibreOffice.

Btw, a qquad should be 2em width, which is what
pandoc-produced mathml uses.  In your example you
have 16em.  Maybe a LibreOffice rendering issue?

Re: Math whitespace commands and docx output

[Denis José Navas Vega]

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I visually equalled the distance between the formula and the number in 
parenthesis. That's why I used 16 '~'.
Don't have any idea of the distance that '~' produces.

El sábado, 26 de noviembre de 2016, 12:06:24 (UTC-6), John MacFarlane 
escribió:
>
> Sorry...I'd forgotten that the ODT writer already does 
> use MathML for formulas. 
>
> They don't display very well in LibreOffice. 
>
> Btw, a qquad should be 2em width, which is what 
> pandoc-produced mathml uses.  In your example you 
> have 16em.  Maybe a LibreOffice rendering issue? 
>
>

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Re: Math whitespace commands and docx output

[Denis José Navas Vega]

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I have found that LibreOffice does not understand '<mspace width="2.0em">', 
comparing the following MathML texts (copied from the unzipped odt).

Therefore, I must accept that LibreOffice does not correctly interpret 
\qquad 
or that at least, '<mspace width="2.0em">' is an unimplemented instruction 
in LibreOffice.


## Markdown source

    For example, the \qquad in the following equation is ignored:

    $$ y = mx + b \qquad (1) $$

    Y otra ecuación sin el espacio qquad para cotejar diferencias:

    $$ y = mx + b (1) $$


## Results

This is what Pandoc produces when the ecuation has \qquad:

<?xml version='1.0' ?>
<math display="block" 
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML"><mrow><mi>y</mi><mo>=</mo><mi>m</mi><mi>x</mi><mo>+</mo><mi>b</mi><mspace 
width="2.0em"></mspace><mo stretchy="false" 
form="prefix">(</mo><mn>1</mn><mo stretchy="false" 
form="postfix">)</mo></mrow></math>

And this is what Pandoc produces without \qquad:

<?xml version='1.0' ?>
<math display="block" 
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML"><mrow><mi>y</mi><mo>=</mo><mi>m</mi><mi>x</mi><mo>+</mo><mi>b</mi><mo 
stretchy="false" form="prefix">(</mo><mn>1</mn><mo stretchy="false" 
form="postfix">)</mo></mrow></math>


And this is what I got using the '~' space command with LibreOffice:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" 
display="block"><semantics><mrow><mrow><mi>y</mi><mo 
stretchy="false">=</mo><mi>m</mi></mrow><mrow><mi>x</mi><mo 
stretchy="false">+</mo><mi>b</mi></mrow><mspace width="16em"/><mo 
stretchy="false">(</mo><mn>1</mn><mo 
stretchy="false">)</mo></mrow><annotation encoding="StarMath 5.0">{y = m x 
+ b ~~~~~~~~ \( 1 \)}</annotation></semantics></math>


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Re: Math whitespace commands and docx output

[Denis José Navas Vega]

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Filled a bug report. This is the link: 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104194 

Found another bug, that is similar but not equal: 

 bug 76296 <https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76296> titled 'FILEOPEN: Open or import of MathML file does not write ~ or ` for the <mspace>



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Re: Math whitespace commands and docx output

[Thomas J. Duck]

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Thank you, John and Denis, for your help with this. --Tom


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Re: Math whitespace commands and docx output

[Denis José Navas Vega]

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I wish to inform that LibreOffice have received a modification, to address 
the problem of emspace in odt.

Here is the information:

Regina Henschel <rb.henschel-zqRNUXuvxA0b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org> 2016-12-02 16:14:37 UTC 

The commit https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=074f0ab1d76f16fe92493868e2f2de75e67792ef 
has fixed the import of mspace as ~ and `. The .odt file looks good for me.

Viewing the formula in the docx-file is a different problem. 
The formula in the docx file uses the character U+2001 to generate the space.





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