From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/16743 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Kolen Cheung Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: RFC: Designing Logo of Pandoc Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:09:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8f9805be-9ec0-4808-8e82-efecf8f0b813@googlegroups.com> References: <87d1fjbhng.fsf@espresso.zeitkraut.de> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1220_1861873702.1484852966067" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1484852985 20059 195.159.176.226 (19 Jan 2017 19:09:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 19:09:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: albert+pandoc-9EawChwDxG8hFhg+JK9F0w@public.gmane.org To: pandoc-discuss Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBCS252WXTEIBBZ45QTCAKGQESBOCS3A-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 20:09:37 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-ua0-f185.google.com ([209.85.217.185]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cUI5K-0003Ld-GR for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 20:09:22 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-ua0-f185.google.com with SMTP id 96sf18388679uaq.0 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:09:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=yh+zFxNgHYC9t63ybBRMRQjLjlPUOY54no+cM0Xu/34=; b=nU7+6R3SlfNOrQvEe9x5EeVrLxeCUS0fIkg0t7FshCr3KzRU/JVAtb3MgSNpn1SixE D70mm+ljxXTYnejm4QUFVPkaCYHiS3rJKoC+HOAZMcy6F9douq/7CE+gsGZEl4jm4D7L q3HX7bdwT1rHr5AxcowinKn1Q7/lJVf2XutXKiAL2aIE9iBmxz8cxx20aWrwM4oNtEQW cD1ZzXcqtAZAt6tBfz19zHHsUOXFz23hrcG+cY1t105CPZwsmP2mni97JYfNw2132Bfm 4c04sqh1h8Q0+9dnfrd8dB4CxybMuCxHkG7Xss648RG/FYt10lF1ad3F0wwMAMH+ORXA og/Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=yh+zFxNgHYC9t63ybBRMRQjLjlPUOY54no+cM0Xu/34=; b=IqaJtQaV9Je/Ur6AY9AGzhD/PvqzAMupqdUkNCoUK0SoJt1zKeUmagyKkralTSXdyX /GHghULtOggS8XQwfv5OduPH/dLYDFxkw0JQ4FYPJ2V9eoIrKBDE7wHqTzuXoz73HsK3 oI1jpLa+5aQe6mENGFMYLHprk1BX1nS/9WErM4x2TaqCcJzB/6TEHP8E0Ir5vGffHe4D Dks0VfchadP9gntVDso3x6rC+4XFV0039ZwstrAMPKs6CP5QNafOtiE/hoAxbDtI8N3q Pb/dnvNggnETAPGiKK6wJmo4IZQHRD4B5AkP8Rxi1KGkhRNJtgeZewlUddIlkjxW2iTG GzGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=yh+zFxNgHYC9t63ybBRMRQjLjlPUOY54no+cM0Xu/34=; b=TSaxvo3+3Hv9z//ZtTubuE5+lB+y6bAt11qUbDLbABi7lnXGOgpZPVbAy/V2uG/WLK r/P+kXSalfwN2l80rkHYl3qRorjAA0j/h9lC8kRRw6ZrW6bfYMXTVRQzK+vcgpjRdhkm yUNkROjEkrvNYzXfQ1AZ2+H2+3FrRudQeKJLeW4pUr20jXzXpUjwFeMhABVpEtPkYwRH QdtewMhc5Q0QiXf5BHkuvN6FBiFmtwQlZNrmoP7EWhjQPriB3RIishXmvMHdqRHC72AW i9/Dh+0Uv82/xSCgPg4btZ7HvtxKQ2qRg+LvgLhcarjJjjwx1ZBN8F0P4b/0JdJA5c0a 4ABQ== Original-Sender: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXIi1hKpyOfc6uAZs+Fdy3jF9jE3H6BrWIJck+Zib2b4/8NmZMYJPaIRpkz4XSo28Q== X-Received: by 10.157.14.183 with SMTP id 52mr1192145otj.20.1484852967331; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:09:27 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 10.157.43.225 with SMTP id u88ls4629730ota.31.gmail; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:09:26 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.157.62.29 with SMTP id a29mr1192223otd.5.1484852966707; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:09:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: christian.kolen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.pandoc:16743 Archived-At: ------=_Part_1220_1861873702.1484852966067 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1221_388397030.1484852966068" ------=_Part_1221_388397030.1484852966068 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (I included the image below so one need not to click into it. But let me=20 know if it troubles you and I will use links next time.) <#>More on the rmarkdown =E2=80=9Clogo=E2=80=9D=20 =20 -=20 =20 are you sure it is a logo? Because when I go to their website=20 , it is nowhere to be seen. And a search= =20 on =E2=80=9Crmarkdown=E2=80=9D logo on Google Image=20 =20 only have this on a few results. Would it just be an illustration (say= =20 people showing on presentations) on what rmarkdown is? -=20 =20 What I said earlier does not mean that the image [image: PNG] would be a= =20 good logo design (it might very well not be a logo): it is too busy, and= =20 would get lost when viewed in small scale/far away. -=20 =20 The image above and the octagon concept I had earlier on is basically=20 the same concept. I think this is also a good illustration that when=20 viewing any of the concepts here, we should think of the abstract form o= f=20 it, rather than sticking to the actual manifestation of the original=20 concept. (e.g. in pop songs, the demo and the final product sounds reall= y=20 different, but whoever is screening the demos will need to look pass its= =20 current form and visualize the potentials in the concept) =20 <#>Judging criteria?=20 I think this last point above cannot be stressed enough especially if there= =20 would be some sort of poll. The judging criteria should not be biased=20 towards how finished the concepts was, but focus on the potential it has=20 (because none of them are finished products). So it might be beneficial to= =20 have 2 polls where the 1st one is for selecting candidates for refinement.= =20 The would be the main difficulties of a poll, and personally I think it=20 would be easier that the first screening is done by @jgm alone (let say=20 @jgm gave us the 3 concepts he likes most, and as a community we push the= =20 design of all 3 concepts, and then poll for 1). <#>Another idea=20 Another idea is from the diagram in Pandoc - About pandoc=20 : [image: diagram] (which is =E2=80=9Cfractal-ish=E2=80= =9D). When I was=20 a newbies in pandoc, every time I visited pandoc.org I was fascinated by=20 that diagram. That diagram points from formats to formats (so not having a= =20 central =E2=80=9CAST=E2=80=9D element). This sparks a concept that involves= something like=20 (just Google search results) [image: this] or [image: this] on an octagon= =20 (I might draw one when I have time. Others can use this idea too). And I hope this last paragraphs shows that I=E2=80=99m impartial to having = a=20 central =E2=80=9CAST=E2=80=9D or not. But I think a key to creative process= es is not to ban=20 ideas too early. It is like one=E2=80=99s drawing a mind map. When you=E2= =80=99re=20 brain-storming, a certain path might seem a dead-end. But if you cross out= =20 that path too early, you might have eliminated a solution prematurely. One= =20 would just ignored that path, until you brainstorm something worth pursuing= =20 there. And in the end, how good is a design if it isn=E2=80=99t impressive = enough=20 for people to ask the philosophy behind it? On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 12:47:49 AM UTC-8, Sergio Correia wrote: Personally, I wouldn't use a logo chosen without the approval of John;=20 > would feel a bit rude tbh. That said, we can vote on proposals and pick o= ur=20 > favorites, in order to frame the discussion. > > > About the logo: > > > - We should pick a logo that denotes *what* pandoc does, not *how *it= =20 > does it. Users (rightly) don't care that pandoc builds an abstract syn= tax=20 > tree, so that should not be in the logo. (This is also what BP stated = in=20 > his Dec16 post) > - At its core, pandoc converts documents. It converts *.md* into *.htm= l=20 > and so on*. A quick google image search tells us that *the* canonical= =20 > icon for conversion is the circle arrow symbol (kinda like the recycli= ng=20 > arrow). example:=20 > http://cracksfree.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/avs-document-converte= r_98327.jpg > - For documents, any stack would do:=20 > http://images.clipartpanda.com/document-clipart-082004-green-grunge-cl= ipart-icon-business-document4.png > > It's also interesting to see how the rmarkdown folks look at this: > > http://rmarkdown.rstudio.com/images/RMarkdownOutputFormats.png > > > > > > On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 3:03:55 AM UTC-5, Albert Krewinkel wrote= : >> >> =E8=97=A4=E5=8E=9F=E7=94=B1=E6=9D=A5 writes:=20 >> >> > Then, as some people say, we need commitment of logo in this group (no= t=20 >> only in=20 >> > this thread).=20 >> >=20 >> > I like the idea to release the final logo in the release date of Pando= c=20 >> 2.0.=20 >> > Because meaning (like a story or literature) is important to be=20 >> impressively=20 >> > remembered for people.=20 >> >> It seems clear to me that jgm is the only person who can choose an=20 >> official pandoc logo.=20 >> >> However, we, as an community, can still vote on a logo. It won't be=20 >> official pandoc logo, but the community logo which can be used to brand= =20 >> projects build with or around pandoc. Of course that logo could be=20 >> changed as soon as an official logo is chosen.=20 >> >> My suggestion would be to wait a little while longer before doing any=20 >> voting, e.g. until the first of March.=20 >> > =E2=80=8B --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= pandoc-discuss/8f9805be-9ec0-4808-8e82-efecf8f0b813%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_1221_388397030.1484852966068 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= (I included the image below so one need not to click into it. But let me kn= ow if it troubles you and I will use links next time.)

More on the rmarkdown =E2=80=9Clogo=E2=80=9D

  • are you sure it is a logo? Because when I= go to their website, it is no= where to be seen. And a search on =E2=80=9Crmarkdown=E2=80=9D logo on Google Im= age only have this on a few results. Would it just be an illustration (= say people showing on presentations) on what rmarkdown is?

  • What I said earlier does not mean that th= e image 3D"PNG" would be a good logo design (it might very well not b= e a logo): it is too busy, and would get lost when viewed in small scale/fa= r away.

  • The image above and the octagon concept I= had earlier on is basically the same concept. I think this is also a good = illustration that when viewing any of the concepts here, we should think of= the abstract form of it, rather than sticking to the actual manifestation = of the original concept. (e.g. in pop songs, the demo and the final product= sounds really different, but whoever is screening the demos will need to l= ook pass its current form and visualize the potentials in the concept)

Judging criteria?

I think this last point abov= e cannot be stressed enough especially if there would be some sort of poll.= The judging criteria should not be biased towards how finished the concept= s was, but focus on the potential it has (because none of them are finished= products). So it might be beneficial to have 2 polls where the 1st one is = for selecting candidates for refinement. The would be the main difficulties= of a poll, and personally I think it would be easier that the first screen= ing is done by @jgm alone (let say @jgm gave us the 3 concepts he likes mos= t, and as a community we push the design of all 3 concepts, and then poll f= or 1).

Ano= ther idea

Another idea is from the dia= gram in Pandoc - About pandoc: 3D"diagram" (which is =E2=80=9Cfractal-ish=E2=80=9D). Wh= en I was a newbies in pandoc, every time I visited pandoc.org I was fascina= ted by that diagram. That diagram points from formats to formats (so not ha= ving a central =E2=80=9CAST=E2=80=9D element). This sparks a concept that i= nvolves something like (just Google search results) 3D"this" or 3D"this" on an octagon (= I might draw one when I have time. Others can use this idea too).

And I hope this last paragra= phs shows that I=E2=80=99m impartial to having a central =E2=80=9CAST=E2=80= =9D or not. But I think a key to creative processes is not to ban ideas too= early. It is like one=E2=80=99s drawing a mind map. When you=E2=80=99re br= ain-storming, a certain path might seem a dead-end. But if you cross out th= at path too early, you might have eliminated a solution prematurely. One wo= uld just ignored that path, until you brainstorm something worth pursuing t= here. And in the end, how good is a design if it isn=E2=80=99t impressive e= nough for people to ask the philosophy behind it?

On Thursday, January 19, 201= 7 at 12:47:49 AM UTC-8, Sergio Correia wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't use a logo chosen without the approval = of John; would feel a bit rude tbh. That said, we can vote on proposals and= pick our favorites, in order to frame the discussion.

<= br>
About the logo:







On Thurs= day, January 19, 2017 at 3:03:55 AM UTC-5, Albert Krewinkel wrote:=E8=97=A4=E5=8E=9F=E7=94=B1=E6=9D=A5 <sky.y...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Then, as some people say, we need commitment of logo in this group= (not only in
> this thread).=20
>
> I like the idea to release the final logo in the release date of P= andoc 2.0.
> Because meaning (like a story or literature) is important to be im= pressively
> remembered for people.=20

It seems clear to me that jgm is the only person who can choose an
official pandoc logo.

However, we, as an community, can still vote on a logo. It won't be
official pandoc logo, but the community logo which can be used to brand
projects build with or around pandoc. =C2=A0Of course that logo could b= e
changed as soon as an official logo is chosen.

My suggestion would be to wait a little while longer before doing any
voting, e.g. until the first of March.

=E2=80=8B

--
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To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/= msgid/pandoc-discuss/8f9805be-9ec0-4808-8e82-efecf8f0b813%40googlegroups.co= m.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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