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[2607:f8b0:400e:c05::232]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w2si1217752pfg.0.2017.01.11.03.58.30 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Jan 2017 03:58:30 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of scot.mcphee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::232 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400e:c05::232; Original-Received: by mail-pg0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 204so27801022pge.0 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2017 03:58:30 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.84.231.205 with SMTP id g13mr10602390pln.118.1484135909336; Wed, 11 Jan 2017 03:58:29 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.111.19] (c110-23-100-43.kelvn4.qld.optusnet.com.au. [110.23.100.43]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o12sm13375345pfg.15.2017.01.11.03.58.26 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Jan 2017 03:58:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <0f45a959-6d8b-4fa6-bc9e-541cd62976b0-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) X-Original-Sender: scot.mcphee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of scot.mcphee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::232 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=scot.mcphee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.pandoc:16668 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_2DFAFB11-3444-408F-BD24-E4DCCD82A43A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 10 January 2017 at 04:12, John Muccigrosso > wrote: On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 7:45:39 AM UTC-5, Scot Mcphee wrote: > On 06 Jan 2017, at 05:07 , John Muccigrosso > wrote: >=20 > pandockers, >=20 > (Thought I might have coined a phrase, but I see it's been used a couple = of times. @jgm, you should =E2=84=A2 that.) >=20 > I just found out that I'm doing a workshop at the NYC DH week in a month = (Feb 9, 1-3pm, to be precise). I've called it "Making the most of text: Usi= ng a text-only workflow with markdown and pandoc". >=20 > Any suggestions/tips gratefully appreciated. Hi John What sort of suggestions were you after. I do quite a lot of DH in Classics= on the programming side, but my thesis (which is not DH-based, but straigh= t classics/ancient history) is fully written in pandoc style markdown. Clas= sics has been using digital tools a lot longer than most other humanities d= isciplines (witness Perseus), because of its long relationship with philolo= gy, linguistics, and use of tools like concordances. Whenever I strike my fellow postgrads struggling with Word issues, I keep t= elling people to use markdown to write their thesis in markdown. They freak= out. They think it=E2=80=99s difficult, when a thesis document nearly all = text and simple to write in markdown. Our systems pretty much train them in= undergraduate courses to use Word and never let up from that point. Scot. Scott, I'm looking for whatever people have found useful when introducing the conc= ept of a text-only workflow to academics, and then adding the pandoc icing = on the cake. So it's wide open. :-) I expect most people to be beginners or even completely new to the idea, th= ough they will sign up for the workshop and so be self-selected, which shou= ld mean that they are at least open to the idea. So fire away. John In the main, I find the following arguments have worked to more or less som= e degree: In the Humanities you don't need a lot of formatting: titles, headers, ital= ics, quotes, citations and footnotes only, typically. Argue against Word - = I=E2=80=99ve had to rescue at least a couple of theses from impending doom = because Word had somehow got into its head to corrupt the file. Also, I use= d pandoc to help fix my wife=E2=80=99s academic book formatting problems, j= ust before she submitted the manuscript. It had way too many ad-hoc text fo= rmats: margins that weren=E2=80=99t consistent, text sizing and paragraph s= pacing all over the place (especially in block quotes and footnotes) - all = actually pretty typical formatting fails that I find even in many business = documents (let alone long format text docs). It was a simple matter to expo= rt each chapter doc out from Word, into pandoc markdown, where most of the = problems could be solved with simple regular expression driven search and r= eplace, then run pandoc to regenerate clean, sensible, consistent Word docs= . Also, you=E2=80=99re talking to a DH audience: pandoc is an easy way to pub= lish in multiple formats, e.g. Word, PDF and HTML, from the one source docu= ment. Separation of content and format is a vital part of most computing di= sciplines. Format for the particular device on-the-fly, usually at the devi= ce (e.g. =E2=80=9Cresponsive=E2=80=9D websites). Pandoc is the best tool fo= r doing this with long-form writing. Convert them to the simplicity of a te= xt editor; the ease of search and replace in such tools (plus the choice of= multiple tools: I use mainly Sublime Text but I do fall back sometimes to = BBEdit).=20 Give them a demo of how easy it is to user and get readable documents. Fin= ally, show them the PDFs you get from Pandoc. They look fantastic! I know t= hat=E2=80=99s mainly LaTeX, but I would not try to sell most humanities peo= ple on LaTeX, it=E2=80=99s too complex for most of their needs. Pandora=E2= =80=99s markdown is a simple and readable format, and you still get the lov= ely typesetting of LaTeX. Scot =20 Scot Mcphee.=20 Computer programmer. Classics PhD. p +61 412 957414 e scot.mcphee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org w http://autonomous.org/ --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= pandoc-discuss/CA9D6C81-50B3-4476-864C-3F23EF3BA89E%40gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --Apple-Mail=_2DFAFB11-3444-408F-BD24-E4DCCD82A43A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

=

On 10 January 2017 at 04:12, John= Muccigrosso <jmuccigr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wro= te:
On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 7:45:39 AM UTC-5, Scot= Mcphee wrote:

On 06 = Jan 2017, at 05:07 , John Muccigrosso <jm= uc...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

pandockers,

(Thought I might have coined a phrase, but I= see it's been used a couple of times. @jgm, you should =E2=84=A2 that.)

I just found out th= at I'm doing a workshop at the NYC DH week in a month (Feb 9, 1-3pm, to be = precise). I've called it "Making the most of text: Using a text-only workfl= ow with markdown and pandoc".

Any suggestions/tips gratefully appreciated.
=

Hi John

What sort= of suggestions were you after. I do quite a lot of DH in Classics on the p= rogramming side, but my thesis (which is not DH-based, but straight classic= s/ancient history) is fully written in pandoc style markdown. Classics has = been using digital tools a lot longer than most other humanities discipline= s (witness Perseus), because of its long relationship with philology, lingu= istics, and use of tools like concordances.

Whenever I strike my fellow postgrads strugglin= g with Word issues, I keep telling people to use markdown to write their th= esis in markdown. They freak out. They think it=E2=80=99s difficult, when a= thesis document nearly all text and simple to write in markdown. Our syste= ms pretty much train them in undergraduate courses to use Word and never le= t up from that point.

Scot.


Scott,

I'm looking for whate= ver people have found useful when introducing the concept of a text-only wo= rkflow to academics, and then adding the pandoc icing on the cake.

So it's wide open. :-)

I expect most peopl= e to be beginners or even completely new to the idea, though they will sign= up for the workshop and so be self-selected, which should mean that they a= re at least open to the idea.

So fire away.

John

In the main, I find the following arguments have worked to= more or less some degree:

In the Humanities you don't need a lot of formatting: titles, hea= ders, italics, quotes, citations and footnotes only, typically. Argue again= st Word - I=E2=80=99ve had to rescue at least a couple of theses from impen= ding doom because Word had somehow got into its head to corrupt the file. A= lso, I used pandoc to help fix my wife=E2=80=99s academic book formatting p= roblems, just before she submitted the manuscript. It had way too many ad-h= oc text formats: margins that weren=E2=80=99t consistent, text sizing and p= aragraph spacing all over the place (especially in block quotes and footnot= es) - all actually pretty typical formatting fails that I find even in many= business documents (let alone long format text docs). It was a simple matt= er to export each chapter doc out from Word, into pandoc markdown, where mo= st of the problems could be solved with simple regular expression driven se= arch and replace, then run pandoc to regenerate clean, sensible, consistent= Word docs.

Also,= you=E2=80=99re talking to a DH audience: pandoc is an easy way to publish = in multiple formats, e.g. Word, PDF and HTML, from the one source document.= Separation of content and format is a vital part of most computing discipl= ines. Format for the particular device on-the-fly, usually at the device (e= .g. =E2=80=9Cresponsive=E2=80=9D websites). Pandoc is the best tool for doi= ng this with long-form writing. Convert them to the simplicity of a text ed= itor; the ease of search and replace in such tools (plus the choice of mult= iple tools: I use mainly Sublime Text but I do fall back sometimes to BBEdi= t). 

Give th= em a demo of how easy it is to user and get readable documents.  Final= ly, show them the PDFs you get from Pandoc. They look fantastic! I know tha= t=E2=80=99s mainly LaTeX, but I would not try to sell most humanities peopl= e on LaTeX, it=E2=80=99s too complex for most of their needs. Pandora=E2=80= =99s markdown is a simple and readable format, and you still get the lovely= typesetting of LaTeX.


Scot
 =

Scot Mcphee. =
Computer programmer. Classics PhD.
p +61 412 957414<= /a>
e scot.mcphee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
w http://autonomous.org/

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