Re: RFC: Designing Logo of Pandoc

[藤原由来 <sky.y.0079-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>]

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I have started this thread but left it for a while. Sorry for my absence
and pending work.

I have two opinions.

## As graphic identity

Again, I wrote why I need a Pandoc logo in the first post:

> The logo strongly represent the existence of Pandoc and briefly show what
it is.
> This will be useful when we make a presentation.
> To expand Pandoc to the world, the logo will be important.

For example, the text 'Pandoc' is perfect as symbolic (in string) identity
because it is sufficiently identical from other products and says what it
is. (pan-document -> universal document converter)

After many proposals (thanks a lot!), I confirmed the text `Pandoc` is
still strong as a pseudo-logo symbol in this point. The (reverse) pilcrow
symbol might weaken the identity because it could cause missread: "I'm a
paragraph."

I think it is difficult to conclude this graphic identity issue. I will
propose another point: practical use.

## In practical use

I haven't written enough why I need in practical point. I sometimes feel
inconvenient and need a graphic Pandoc logo when:

- finding our user's guide page from many browser tabs (currently its
favicon is the browser default)
- making a diagram to explain my publishing workflow: pandoc ->  (rst) ->
Sphinx -> Web site
- writing a book that explains Pandoc (I want to use official logo in its
cover page!)

'To expand Pandoc to the world' in the first quote implies this usage above
actually but I have not explained much.

Then in practical point the *official* logo spec will be:

1. can be square and make favicon for pandoc.org (at least 32×32 px for
modern browsers)
2. can be downloaded in pdf (or svg) and png (or jpg) for general graphic
design and diagrams
3. [optional] fit for the current website: pandoc.org (not need to an image)
4. seem to be graphically identical in the logo of spec 1-3

For example the rasterize version of the sans serif text 'P' in 32×32
satisfies the spec 1. pdf/png version of the current top page header text
'Pandoc' satisfies the spec 2. Spec 3 is not necessary. Spec 4 is obviously
satisfied. This will be minimal set of logo that satisfies the spec.

Alexis' one as jgm mentioned will be satisfies the spec 1-4 and we can
filter other existing ideas with the spec.

Thank you for discussion and give cool ideas.

Regards,
Yuki F


2020年1月19日(日) 8:53 John MacFarlane <jgm@berkeley.edu>:

>
> I'm really not sure what to say:  people here seem to want
> a logo much more than I do, so I feel a lot of pressure.
> But since I don't think we NEED a logo, I'm not going to go
> to go for one unless it really looks right.
>
> I actually think this one by Alexis is pretty nice, though
> now it has been accused of amateurism. Well, I'm not a graphic
> designer, so I wouldn't know. But I like it better than the other
> proposals of reverse pilcrows in boxes.
>
> I do think that it makes sense, if we have a logo, to have
> the canonical version be a particular vector image, and not
> just, say, a reverse pilcrow typeset any old way. That's not a
> logo, it's just a symbol.
>
>
> Alexis BRENON <brenon.alexis-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:
>
> > I agree that it doesn't have to be a real/specific font.
> > In the beginning, the idea was to be able to insert the logo without
> > relying on a "premade" image.
> > But as we can see, using the chosen pilcrow as a letter inside a word
> > doesn't feel well.
> > Moreover, as it is a manually reversed pilcrow, it can't be easily added
> to
> > all formats.
> > In my opinion, designing a "pictural" logo would let us more room to
> make a
> > good one, and would better fit the use cases (like the one showcased by
> > @allefeld).
> >
> > From this idea, I made a variant of the Vollkorn pilcrow taking some
> ideas
> > from the whole conversation.
> > John seems to like to see the "pi" letter as well as a "D", and most of
> us
> > agree on using something looking like a "P".
> > So I separated the bowl from the vertical lines bringing some advantages:
> > * The "pi" and the "D" are more visible (I can still do more works on the
> > upper junction to make the "pi" more evident -- adding some curve similar
> > to the left one, making some offset overlap to highlight the separation,
> > etc.)
> > * We keep a "P" shape related to the first letter of "Pandoc"
> > * It is not a "simple" pilcrow anymore, so decrease the risk of confusion
> > from the users.
> >
> > Using a box around is a good idea making it stands as "I am a logo".
> > However, a simple square or diamond doesn't bring much meaning.
> > I used an ISO A4 page symbol which was often used in the previous logo
> > propositions.
> > One more time, some more work can be done here, like using a letter-sized
> > page (which would make it more squarish).
> >
> > [image: logo_512.png]
> >
> > What do you think about this compromised: starting from a well-designed
> > pilcrow and customizing it to make it looks like a logo.
> >
> > Kind.
> >
> > Le mar. 14 janv. 2020 à 21:46, BPJ <melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> a écrit :
> >
> >> Does it necessarily have to be a specific font? I doubt people will care
> >> about such details as long as the general look is the expected one, the
> >> pilcrow, a box (the idea of a square rotated 45 degrees, i.e. a lozenge,
> >> seems a good one to me BTW) and the expected general color in a color
> >> document. OTOH if the font is the "right" one but other details are
> wrong,
> >> like a non-reversed pilcrow, a circle instead of a box or the wrong
> color
> >> the "right" font doesn't help.  Most people who aren't font nerds (I
> used
> >> to be one when I was younger actually) won't notice any font differences
> >> less gross than filled vs. not filled, w/o a "leg" or sans vs. serif.
> >>
> >>
> >> Den tors 9 jan. 2020 18:52allefeld <c_a-1KBjaw7Xf1+zQB+pC5nmwQ@public.gmane.org> skrev:
> >>
> >>> I did have the concern expressed above that the reversed Pilcrow
> >>>> in a box e.g. in an editor menu looks like it should create a new
> >>>> paragraph,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I wouldn't be too concerned about that. The Pilcrow is familiar as an
> >>> end-of-paragraph symbol, but I have never seen an editor that uses it
> to
> >>> stand for "create paragraph".
> >>>
> >>> Apparently there is a Pilcrow button in MS Word, but that stands for
> >>> "show hidden formatting".
> >>>
> >>> For my own package, I think that the documentation
> >>>   https://github.com/allefeld/atom-pandoc-pdf#toolbar-buttons
> >>> should make it completely clear.
> >>>
> >>> And once the symbol is used on the Pandoc website, users will
> >>> automatically start associating it with Pandoc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> and isn't obviously recognizable as a logo.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> A properly designed logo would certainly be nice. A while ago there
> was a
> >>> comment from a designer on the repo offering to design a logo. I left a
> >>> comment, maybe he chimes in.
> >>>
> >>> But I would propose that for the moment we just settle on a font, and
> >>> leave possible further logo design for the future.
> >>>
> >>> And that would mean that you, John, have to decide which font it is
> >>> supposed to be. :)
> >>>
> >>> C
> >>>
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-- 
藤原 由来 (Yuki Fujiwara)
sky.y.0079-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org

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