From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/24156 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: BPJ Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: RFC: Designing Logo of Pandoc Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2020 19:15:48 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20200103120238.y6ob3i52lpzkyxtb@syenite> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004d2a6b059b404da3" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="119287"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: pandoc-discuss Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBCWMVYEK54FRBYUJX3YAKGQERHNM3KQ-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Fri Jan 03 19:16:05 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-oi1-f185.google.com ([209.85.167.185]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1inRUS-000Uok-9F for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2020 19:16:04 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-oi1-f185.google.com with SMTP id c137sf2472757oib.11 for ; Fri, 03 Jan 2020 10:16:04 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1578075363; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=vDVOpjxbXdw5tSugi+Akt9au5aZtrQzOwF4G93+j/wAC/I7u5l0VtZH8RXtXlMSPtB l8TliiQGpT3ZcE2NgQ7/eV+W4KEpYVMIZFGRKQtDLXixm7FZiD9NIBe4mZ0t+4oaBrpP hvYpocfLrJhm+w5QtsyQenkEg1xlJLsZQ88nyBlvMKPY0OzwHfci+D8oohZTdeqvQL1M 4VslN7DOJNH66Obg7zhhiKXemWoYZmtiAzd1djp1yNTd4YzWmnY1D4olfuxxTnNOlI79 8GIYJd/urBybqv3AmLfZw1nSYw4NDYuETIIOdx/4qv1sRuUF9adV/MxoOZcdqXNsomYF FIvg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:to:subject:message-id:date:from :reply-to:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:sender:dkim-signature; bh=PqqLSlHn4TsTKtXR1dHV8ckqiEB/GLNvhL/3JCk2XBE=; b=olSI+1kGRuYedFXSYXr+ZwSh9U7nj0spuHctDKynM4fVlk1NSPHfOxAYajNZfxnoej h5OkWagUMSa5P0Si/eNql4XEiMiGBJKdSiIeaIiGJQFogo+g0axl8JLrQiOIlwtiWVQo Y2UZFz5nrwwB+bLGvgLpX69/BXhCLoouMXSzBU9UKzUzaIGgriyivfwGakD+g1UUs/SQ xWPryUqd3BfrZlJSF2IQTaT4U8yHoXynE9V30Y5HiQqVP4x13TbYXItDBapSYxWkcN4f Ml2TXmcRWGLyqdscL7sx//LlxqaCZRg7MMxCSMR2SXRwxyxy8XYE+GqUdvW6/dijNq1v CaQg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 209.85.167.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=PqqLSlHn4TsTKtXR1dHV8ckqiEB/GLNvhL/3JCk2XBE=; b=FS+d84KE5M9jdVLntlGir6hkpFbXtC3UaDq1s6JO/Mft0FkTsJF711YYk/38x3wEn4 8oSFJ3NrrzT5PY2+HEEuQM+CLd3CcKNsHasAvHNWkS0Z6EduOIy2ENs3lEifrl+3NG8Q 8+vbGQF7bexLV+WUtbSR80U6x9OtZPY/Ilu4EBoVNvshfHj9zY6GYS0GFeVUThL+Dylu 7xVwXx3rG9HmvlAFfbwxbIcVe8aZ2RhhgXfQiYtcOGiT0ihpjXirjZOEfBJ+fRTBHapu xDRVlRxvYRJKbkfQoiLJ8v3EvsP7994owr4DYpv95fyXMr9WuDL7/dqPgblmg+e6GrLE kiXA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=PqqLSlHn4TsTKtXR1dHV8ckqiEB/GLNvhL/3JCk2XBE=; b=bRlQ8MabgB2wlwGYj2QFz18fT4INeU2ukybEV3u/dFTc7dwXE2WB0L2zaz2HD4Uyt9 cNs2uI0paBy2RTA4T63JZ38XFzycU5bnu1gOTg8CZxkCzVyp9OVHMGEn3885Q+bSGfOf ZWtzpXc3wGPXO1jCkzbUv+MkOHoBWsh+QSYzsLJICnJYejW+/D9ijBMj0xL2GZALiWmf jiMVyucPF1cxuN7X7tzP3a/bio1g5tv5y9QaaO7wzmaLuc68V4L6msinw2s0BrZLuNOO AN4IrYkD/NR3AHtzct1L6P5oLVI8E98jDDHtjaWaz7Mh3exrnsX7LlSG6+dMzkjmrKZ9 APmw== Original-Sender: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWTlpXnPE6HuNmsK3+Vk6HZ/GmNw9ytxmKQYfSBwxcUtdipVNKP SuhU6t3V+ezJom4SSyEoK6s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyAYRGjz0ZG/107azCn9mqLWn8Yu20X3EbBYvhY3HdjBRmA53mA1ZUZDrd1ng9+0vTKdunWbQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1c5:: with SMTP id x5mr4676450oic.57.1578075362851; Fri, 03 Jan 2020 10:16:02 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:649:: with SMTP id z9ls1161983oih.3.gmail; Fri, 03 Jan 2020 10:16:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:aca:6545:: with SMTP id j5mr4589203oiw.60.1578075361540; Fri, 03 Jan 2020 10:16:01 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1578075361; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=PBPs1egGfAfI4dQysmkAgmQUNVvvbpWqYKfN2Kmr1VOYrej5gRIuhUYshzGvuc5eB0 uZHj6gm0EDzQxfLaZl53CM4/Ru70xaiwzbj+nqCXycvuBbacdHbhMjKI6YXjKOJjCmNN TKblqPkfZ0bGbKZhvcQxM9QrsISyJK5H1/aVQTxTy4fnlepi0J7l2gMwOSGh76McxRt6 1n9ru3QhTdGs0HZd4VARDUPp3/t/6cBtIg3TuR6Tz1lYwpumTBJdEkC2SE4TZMogqxNA V5zM4MeG2L3NW9tVwns+caPFW8lmW4KaSoP+1L/YGmZn7VA0BW+zZDAJJdGHkC3+qzeC 7BVg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :mime-version; bh=lB9L67F+moBSP8HbGcXuRsepj0xaWP45+Chd+KPnvnc=; b=z6qMwvW6rC60KbrZegoQXVxm+Nqu1NYoKHVrUld27CEb2xzpNMJZs9QruBW0I2VtwE DAEhc6hoCSZ0Ew9oxv0yb2vFxmcgw/x7GH/7x8Slasop8v61kqMhKKKT5g9VawLJedCX Ogx5hYMkeATkR7HMfj6qkKhNTTU7RSpy4uOOMwcLKgV3/H8elmwKm0ef3KjP6RfHyhjQ ciqxTcxCd4J+7DJ1b+NzxJSWOERY4Q+DEMlRYdlVOx+5pU+RMKtdwugUCaimkSxc+j6M Es5u7UOc5FqrUePv2BKurHBqeobrk3n8YbDYuO5Nwq8fKL7wMQnZ2BEjA8bpi2rMeKIF Mpng== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 209.85.167.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-oi1-f176.google.com (mail-oi1-f176.google.com. [209.85.167.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h11si1876256otk.0.2020.01.03.10.16.01 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 03 Jan 2020 10:16:01 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 209.85.167.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.167.176; Original-Received: by mail-oi1-f176.google.com with SMTP id i1so14731037oie.8 for ; Fri, 03 Jan 2020 10:16:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:aca:ab0e:: with SMTP id u14mr4578854oie.1.1578075360666; Fri, 03 Jan 2020 10:16:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20200103120238.y6ob3i52lpzkyxtb@syenite> X-Original-Sender: melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 209.85.167.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.pandoc:24156 Archived-At: --0000000000004d2a6b059b404da3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IMHO a simple design like those I created with LaTeX and CSS earlier in this thread, just a pilcrow in a framed or colored box is actually preferable. I really don't think the reversed pilcrow should be used as the P in "Pandoc". That would only be confusing. If the name "Pandoc" is included it should be spelled out in regular letters beside or beneath the pilcrow logo itself. As for colors I think that if there are more than one (two?) it would be nice if they be chosen with color blind friendliness in mind. Below are some links to a 15 color color blind friendly palette I have been using with the blessing of a client who cares enough to want his link colors be CB friendly (which the classic blue, red and purple for unvisited, dead and visited links actually are for most people). I even found a LaTeX implementation of it on GitHub. I see a blue color has been suggested, and as it happens the blue colors in that palette have the virtue that according to the first image they look reasonably similar to everyone. Note the equivalent colors in the second image: as long as one only uses one color from each column one can use any of those in that column. OTOH those colors marked with a white dot or triangle in the first image are not distinct for people with blue color blindness (less than one per cent of all people). http://www.somersault1824.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/color-blindness-pa= lette.png http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/colorblind/img/colorblindness.palettes.simple.png http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/colorblind/ https://github.com/jfdm/sta-latex/blob/master/colour-blind.sty Den fre 3 jan. 2020 13:03T. Emil Rivera-Thorsen skrev: > Lots of companies and projects have logos that are not used as a letter i= n > spelling out the company name. That is perfectly fine in my opinion. > Better to > have something which is graphically recognizable. > > In that vein, I think perhaps a diamond-shape or even better, 45 degree > rotated > square, a bit like the old TextWrangler one, would be a good background, = it > could make it clear this was not just an oddly formatted pilcrow/paragrap= h > sign > but that this is in fact on purpose. I would also suggest that the > filled-in > pilcrow on such a background, whether reversed or not, might be a better > logo > then than an unfilled one, because it is less likely to be mistaken as > part of > the actual product name and more likely to be seen as an image or symbol. > > That being said, I agree that done is better than perfect. > > On 02/01/20 10:48, allefeld wrote: > > Agreed, using the reversed pilcrow as a letter P is not a good idea. > > > > For the moment I would propose that we just settle on a font so we have > > *something* for a logo. > > > > Beyond that, someone with at least some graphic design skills would be > > needed. > > > > For me, the motivation was that I needed something to put on a button i= n > an > > Atom package I'm developing, see attached. > > > > > > > > On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 10:19:40 AM UTC, mb21 wrote: > > > > > > I find the pilcrows don=E2=80=99t work very well when used to write P= andoc > without > > > some further graphical editing. It just shows that it=E2=80=99s not t= he letter > P of > > > that font. If we=E2=80=99d want to use the pilcrow as part of a wordm= ark, some > > > qualified person will probably need to do some designing. > > > > > > Speaking of which, the pandoc website could probably also use a > graphical > > > update. Not saying the current state of things is bad, but if we are > going > > > to have an official logo, might as well do it properly, with somethin= g > > > resembling a visual identify to go along with. Nothing fancy, but > something > > > consistent and with proper spacing etc. that=E2=80=99s less historica= lly grown > than > > > the current website. > > > > > > P.S. I know open source projects are known to struggle with design > work > > > (probably because it requires skills so different to programming? I > don't > > > know...) As a commandline-tool/library, pandoc so far didn't have the > need > > > for it at all... > > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/pandoc-discuss/1bKIuyBnWaQ/unsubscribe. > > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/c3dcb843-c8c9-4ea1-8dcc-= 7cd742f8f746%40googlegroups.com > . > > > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > Th=C3=B8ger Emil Rivera-Thorsen Post: AlbaNova > Universitetscentrum > Astrophysicist, Postdoctoral fellow SE-10691 Stockholm, > Sweden > Department of Astronomy, Oskar Klein Center E-Mail: > trive-1s38ZZnEJkowFerOooGFRg@public.gmane.org > Stockholm University Mobile phone: +46 (0)737 > 703 603 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "pandoc-discuss" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/20200103120238.y6ob3i52l= pzkyxtb%40syenite > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= pandoc-discuss/CADAJKhA4Uk4SZf0uTd1FzJ1%2B3DuwHJSkrf4yPZXdOkAHUynfBQ%40mail= .gmail.com. --0000000000004d2a6b059b404da3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
IMHO a simple design like those I creat= ed with LaTeX and CSS earlier in this thread, just a pilcrow in a framed or= colored box is actually preferable.

I really don't think the reversed pilcrow should be used a= s the P in "Pandoc". That would only be confusing. If the name &q= uot;Pandoc" is included it should be spelled out in regular letters be= side or beneath the pilcrow logo itself.

<= div dir=3D"auto">As for colors I think that if there are more than one (two= ?) it would be nice if they be chosen with color blind friendliness in mind= .

Below are some links t= o a 15 color color blind friendly palette I have been using with the blessi= ng of a client who cares enough to want his link colors be CB friendly (whi= ch the classic blue, red and purple for unvisited, dead and visited links a= ctually are for most people). I even found a LaTeX implementation of it on = GitHub.

I see a blue col= or has been suggested, and as it happens the blue colors in that palette ha= ve the virtue that according to the first image they look reasonably simila= r to everyone.

Note the = equivalent colors in the second image: as long as one only uses one color f= rom each column one can use any of those in that column.

OTOH those colors marked with a white dot = or triangle in the first image are not distinct for people with blue color = blindness (less than one per cent of all people).


=


Den fre 3 jan. 2020 13:03T. Emil Rivera-Thorsen <thoger.emil-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> skrev:
Lots of companies and projects have logos that a= re not used as a letter in
spelling out the company name. That is perfectly fine in my opinion. Better= to
have something which is graphically recognizable.

In that vein, I think perhaps a diamond-shape or even better, 45 degree rot= ated
square, a bit like the old TextWrangler one, would be a good background, it=
could make it clear this was not just an oddly formatted pilcrow/paragraph = sign
but that this is in fact on purpose.=C2=A0 I would also suggest that the fi= lled-in
pilcrow on such a background, whether reversed or not, might be a better lo= go
then than an unfilled one, because it is less likely to be mistaken as part= of
the actual product name and more likely to be seen as an image or symbol. <= br>
That being said, I agree that done is better than perfect.

On 02/01/20 10:48, allefeld wrote:
> Agreed, using the reversed pilcrow as a letter P is not a good idea. >
> For the moment I would propose that we just settle on a font so we hav= e
> *something* for a logo.
>
> Beyond that, someone with at least some graphic design skills would be=
> needed.
>
> For me, the motivation was that I needed something to put on a button = in an
> Atom package I'm developing, see attached.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 10:19:40 AM UTC, mb21 wrote:
> >
> > I find the pilcrows don=E2=80=99t work very well when used to wri= te Pandoc without
> > some further graphical editing. It just shows that it=E2=80=99s n= ot the letter P of
> > that font. If we=E2=80=99d want to use the pilcrow as part of a w= ordmark, some
> > qualified person will probably need to do some designing.
> >
> > Speaking of which, the pandoc website could probably also use a g= raphical
> > update. Not saying the current state of things is bad, but if we = are going
> > to have an official logo, might as well do it properly, with some= thing
> > resembling a visual identify to go along with. Nothing fancy, but= something
> > consistent and with proper spacing etc. that=E2=80=99s less histo= rically grown than
> > the current website.
> >
> > P.S. I know open source projects are known to struggle with desig= n work
> > (probably because it requires skills so different to programming?= I don't
> > know...) As a commandline-tool/library, pandoc so far didn't = have the need
> > for it at all...
> >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the= Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/pandoc-discuss/= 1bKIuyBnWaQ/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups= .google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/c3dcb843-c8c9-4ea1-8dcc-7cd742f8f746%40g= ooglegroups.com.



--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----
Th=C3=B8ger Emil Rivera-Thorsen=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Post: AlbaNova Universitetscentrum
Astrophysicist, Postdoctoral fellow=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SE-10691 Stockholm, Sweden
Department of Astronomy, Oskar Klein Center=C2=A0 =C2=A0E-Mail:=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 trive-1s38ZZnEJkowFerOooGFRg@public.gmane.org
Stockholm University=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mobile phone:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+46 (0)737 70= 3 603
---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;pandoc-discuss" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe@googlegroups.= com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid= /pandoc-discuss/20200103120238.y6ob3i52lpzkyxtb%40syenite.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;pandoc-discuss" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pand= oc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://group= s.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CADAJKhA4Uk4SZf0uTd1FzJ1%2B3DuwHJSkrf4y= PZXdOkAHUynfBQ%40mail.gmail.com.
--0000000000004d2a6b059b404da3--