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From: BPJ <melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
To: pandoc-discuss <pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: Changing colons to full-stops in titles
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 11:09:54 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CADAJKhB7xCir7Gwq=Xr=Yh4jSfCfjqnfWNdWvYZoXE7idcbePQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CADAJKhCjht=mJqUgEbyHQWcp+P5gKjYUoEfe4VQAOa6SS1b5Ag-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>

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It turns out "my" bug is already fixed in the development version of
LaTeX::ToUnicode. Compare the CPAN version

https://metacpan.org/dist/LaTeX-ToUnicode/source/lib/LaTeX/ToUnicode.pm#L46

with current master:

https://github.com/borisveytsman/BibTeXPerlLibs/blob/5d24b66bd2461f1f3fc4d9a28dd8774ad6c75829/LaTeX-ToUnicode/lib/LaTeX/ToUnicode.pm#L314

The crucial difference is `\w{1,1}` vs. `\w{1,2}`. Given e.g. `Fr\"oding`
the latter would always match two letters and try to look up
`$ACCENTS{'"'}{od}` rather than `$ACCENTS{'"'}{o}`, which would fail.

You should be able to install the development version by cloning the GitHub
repo, coding to LaTeX-ToUnicode and saying `cpanm --force .` The force is
because a couple of conversion tests (`\$` -> `$` and `\&` -> `&`) still
fail. If you don't have cpanm installed you need to say `cpan
App::cpanminus` first.

However it still fails one of my test cases which I wrote yesterday: it
leaves inputs like `\'{\ae}` and `\"{\ae}` which TeX is perfectly fine with
as `\'æ \"æ`. The first of these exists precomposed in Unicode because
Danish sometimes uses it so is definitely a bug and the second should
arguably be replaced with letter + combining mark, so I will likely make a
couple of pull requests as and when I have time.

/bpj


Den sön 3 juli 2022 21:43BPJ <melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> skrev:

>
>
> Den sön 3 juli 2022 18:55Paulo Ney de Souza <pauloney-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> skrev:
>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 3, 2022 at 5:15 AM BPJ <melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>>> It's an upstream bug in LaTeX::ToUnicode.
>>>
>>
>> On  LaTeX::ToUnicode ? I thought you only used BibTeX::Parser.
>>
>
> Which uses LaTeX::ToUnicode in its `cleaned_*` methods.
>
>
>
>> I just had never run into it AFAIK because all the .bib files I had
>>> written myself or downloaded from the libraries I use had used `\"{a}`
>>> rather than `\"a` which doesn't hit the bug. I have located the bug and am
>>> working on a patch. Thanks for discovering this! (There are a lot of
>>> unattended bugs though. Do you want me to send you the patch when it is
>>> ready?)
>>>
>>
>> I know of some bugs on BibTeX::Parser (and none on LaTeX::ToUnicode).
>>
>
> There are some on the old CPAN RT tracker. I don't know if they are de
> facto fixed.
>
>
> It would be nice to have all of them listed o the issues of the project
>> page:
>>
>>     https://github.com/borisveytsman/BibTeXPerlLibs/issues
>>
>
> Thanks for the link. It is missing on MetaCPAN. One of the old bugs
> complains about sloppy packaging.
>
>
>
>> especially if you are producing a patch.
>>
>
> Well it will be listed when I submit a PR!
>
>
>
>> Paulo Ney
>>
>>
>>
>>> Den sön 3 juli 2022 07:42Paulo Ney de Souza <pauloney-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> skrev:
>>>
>>>> I got interested in another aspect of the posting -- the program "
>>>> cleanbib.pl" by Benct.
>>>>
>>>> I installed it in Ubuntu, and found out it does not process perfectly
>>>> valid TeX code like characters that end or have a space in the middle, or
>>>> that it processes \c{e}, but not the comma-accent any of the other vowels...
>>>>
>>>> I prepared the torture test below to show the problems:
>>>>
>>>> @Book{hobbit,
>>>>   title    = {Les \oe uf  de la serpente},
>>>>   address = {Bla\v zi\'c},
>>>>   publisher = {\c{a} \c{e} \c{i} \c{o} \c{u}},
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> and above all, how does this compare to:
>>>>
>>>>     https://ctan.org/tex-archive/support/bibtexperllibs/LaTeX-ToUnicode
>>>>
>>>> Paulo Ney
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 1:03 PM BPJ <bpj-J3H7GcXPSITLoDKTGw+V6w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> string.gsub() optionally takes the maximum number of substitutions as
>>>>> a fourth argument, and you can reinsert capture groups in the replacement,
>>>>> so this should be fairly robust:
>>>>>
>>>>> ``````lua
>>>>> string.gsub(title, '%:(%s)', '.%1', 1)
>>>>> ``````
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Den fre 1 juli 2022 18:44John Carter Wood <woodjo-ZOsAvrTRSvuEhhMi0yms2Q@public.gmane.org> skrev:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, of course, biblical references. Religious history is one of my
>>>>>> fields, how could I miss that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking forward to trying this out!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> denis...-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org schrieb am Freitag, 1. Juli 2022 um 18:41:02 UTC+2:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A slightly more reliable version:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ```
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> local stringify = pandoc.utils.stringify
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> function Meta(m)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   if m.references ~= nil then
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     for _, el in ipairs (m.references) do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       -- print(stringify(el.title))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       el.title = pandoc.Str(string.gsub(stringify(el.title), ': ',
>>>>>>> '. '))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       -- print(el.title)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     end
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   end
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   return m
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> end```
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (This won’t replace colons in biblical references, e.g. Gen 1:1)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can test with this file :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ```markdown
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> references:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - type: book
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   id: doe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   author:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   - family: Doe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     given: Jane
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   issued:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     date-parts:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     - - 2022
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   title: 'A book: with a subtitle and a reference to Gen 1:1, but
>>>>>>> that is not a problem'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   publisher: 'Whatever press'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   lang: de-De
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> test [@doe]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ```
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The filter itself does not cover capitalization. For some reason,
>>>>>>> pandoc or citeproc applies title-case transformation here. I don’t think it
>>>>>>> should though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Von:* pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org <pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> *Im
>>>>>>> Auftrag von *John Carter Wood
>>>>>>> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 1. Juli 2022 18:24
>>>>>>> *An:* pandoc-discuss <pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
>>>>>>> *Betreff:* Re: Changing colons to full-stops in titles
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's very interesting, thanks! I'll try it out when I get a chance
>>>>>>> in the coming days.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have thought about this issue of false positives while thinking
>>>>>>> about the option of some kind of filter. But...I think they would be very
>>>>>>> rare. I have a hard time thinking of a title with a colon in it that
>>>>>>> shouldn't be -- in this case -- be turned into a dot. At least, I don't
>>>>>>> have anything in my 1,200 references where I can see that that wouldn't
>>>>>>> apply.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Although, of course, I'm sure there are some out there...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just a question: would this also ensure that the first word after
>>>>>>> the dot is capitalised? Or does that open a new series of problems? :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> denis...-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org schrieb am Freitag, 1. Juli 2022 um 18:17:02
>>>>>>> UTC+2:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here’s a very simple and absolutely unreliable version of a filter.
>>>>>>> This will replace every colon in a title with a period.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ```lua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> local stringify = pandoc.utils.stringify
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> function Meta(m)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   if m.references ~= nil then
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     for _, el in ipairs (m.references) do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       print(stringify(el.title))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       el.title = pandoc.Str(string.gsub(stringify(el.title), ':',
>>>>>>> '.'))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       print(el.title)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     end
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   end
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   return m
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ```
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Question is how this can be made robust enough to avoid false
>>>>>>> positives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Von:* pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org <pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> *Im
>>>>>>> Auftrag von *John Carter Wood
>>>>>>> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 1. Juli 2022 17:52
>>>>>>> *An:* pandoc-discuss <pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
>>>>>>> *Betreff:* Re: Changing colons to full-stops in titles
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the suggestions, a couple of which are kind of stretching
>>>>>>> my knowledge of these things, but I see where they're going.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As to JGM's question: I am using a CSL json bibliography, so my
>>>>>>> titles are in a single field. ("title":"Science and religion: new
>>>>>>> perspectives on the dialogue")
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The issue is that *most* of the journals / publishers I publish in
>>>>>>> use, as here, the colon. *Some* (mainly German) styles want the period. If
>>>>>>> I were solely interested in either one, I could choose and just enter the
>>>>>>> relevant punctuation in the title field. However, I want to continue saving
>>>>>>> my bibliographic entries with a colon (because that's the most standard one
>>>>>>> for me), but have the option of automatically converting them to a period
>>>>>>> for those cases where I need to. If that makes sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thus: going through denis's options:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. I have switched to json bibliographies from bibtex/biblatex as
>>>>>>> they seemed to offer more flexibility (I was running into issue with the
>>>>>>> strange archival references I have to make in my field, and JSON seemed to
>>>>>>> work better in that regard). So this seems to not apply.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. Seems to not apply, as I have a single title field
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. Sounds really interesting, and I use BBT, though it also sounds
>>>>>>> like I would here have to create a separate bibliography file from my
>>>>>>> Zotero database for those publishers/styles that require the dot. This is
>>>>>>> not *too* onerous, as it would at least be automated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4. Having a filter that I could simply apply (as part of a pandoc
>>>>>>> command, say) or not apply as relevant seems like the most flexible /
>>>>>>> efficient solution. I don't know lua, but if this is one possible way, then
>>>>>>> I could use it as a (hopefully fairly simple?) way into learning it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does this help to clarify my situation?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> denis...-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org schrieb am Freitag, 1. Juli 2022 um 17:34:55
>>>>>>> UTC+2:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, that’s a known issue...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are a couple of possible solutions :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. use biblatex databases and patch pandoc so it will concat title
>>>>>>> and subtitle fields using periods. (line 667
>>>>>>> https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/blob/master/src/Text/Pandoc/Citeproc/BibTeX.hs
>>>>>>> )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. I think pandoc’s citeproc will just treat every unknown variable
>>>>>>> as a string variable (see
>>>>>>> https://github.com/jgm/citeproc/blob/3f94424db469c804cf2dac2d22dc7a18b614f43e/src/Citeproc/Types.hs#L1054
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> https://github.com/jgm/citeproc/blob/3f94424db469c804cf2dac2d22dc7a18b614f43e/src/Citeproc/Types.hs#L901),
>>>>>>> so you should be able to use «subtitle» in styles. (This will give you
>>>>>>> warnings when using the style with Zotero and it won’t work reliably across
>>>>>>> implementations, but anyway ...)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. if you’re using Zotero, you can leverage Zotero BBT’s postscript
>>>>>>> feature to manipulate the JSON after exporting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> E.g., this one :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if (Translator.BetterCSL && item.title) {
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   reference.title = reference.title.replace(/ : /g, '. ')
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not bullet-proof, but simple. You will want to choose a better
>>>>>>> separator, maybe a double-bar or so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4. Doing the with lua should also be possible...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The question is: do you have the subtitle in a distinct field or is
>>>>>>> it just in the title field?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Von:* pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org <pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> *Im
>>>>>>> Auftrag von *John Carter Wood
>>>>>>> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 1. Juli 2022 16:39
>>>>>>> *An:* pandoc-discuss <pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
>>>>>>> *Betreff:* Changing colons to full-stops in titles
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have one final (for now...) issue in setting up a CSL file (which
>>>>>>> I use with pandoc/citeproc and references in a json file).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not sure whether this is a CSL issue or whether it's an issue
>>>>>>> that can be solved via using a filter (or some other solution) in pandoc,
>>>>>>> but I thought there might be some people here who might have faced a
>>>>>>> similar issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The house style for here (German-based publisher) wants a *full-stop/period
>>>>>>> *between main title and subtitle in citations / bibliographies;
>>>>>>> US/UK standard is a *colon* between main title and subtitle. And
>>>>>>> reference managers like Zotero -- IIUC -- save titles as single fields (at
>>>>>>> least they are in my version of Zotero). So it doesn't seem like it is
>>>>>>> possible to control what delimiter is used between them via CSL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have found various discussions of relevant title/subtitle division
>>>>>>> issues -- some going back quite a few years -- in forums on Zotero:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/8077/separate-fields-for-title-and-subtitle/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...and CSL:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/handling-main-sub-title-splits-citeproc-js/1563/11
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, these were in part discussions among developers about
>>>>>>> *possible* changes, and I'm not sure of the current status of this
>>>>>>> issue or whether there is a way to handle it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would it be possible to automate turning colons in titles into
>>>>>>> full-stops via using a filter? If so is there such a filter already around?
>>>>>>> Can this be done via CSL?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or is this, as of now, impossible?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Or is there a real simple solution that I have, as usual,
>>>>>>> overlooked...)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>> .
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2022-07-04  9:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <AQHYjVhIsMIE8s9IhE2lBYWP9lHO8a1pnTTw///rpoCAACWJYP//4zWAgAAjbfA=>
     [not found] ` <AQHYjVhIsMIE8s9IhE2lBYWP9lHO8a1pnTTw///rpoCAACWJYA==>
     [not found]   ` <AQHYjVhIsMIE8s9IhE2lBYWP9lHO8a1pnTTw>
2022-07-01 14:38     ` John Carter Wood
     [not found]       ` <78df697a-50f5-46d0-b0b8-29a2cbc9509an-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-01 15:30         ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]           ` <m2sfnkvoih.fsf-pgq/RBwaQ+zq8tPRBa0AtqxOck334EZe@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-01 15:41             ` AW: " denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0
2022-07-01 15:34         ` denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0
     [not found]           ` <f440b082946148b884b45ed1a3421de4-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-01 15:52             ` John Carter Wood
     [not found]               ` <a2d540a6-a435-4285-aed5-018007d155cfn-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-01 16:16                 ` AW: " denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0
     [not found]                   ` <bc85a4891eec431f846ee69f9fcbe167-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-01 16:23                     ` John Carter Wood
     [not found]                       ` <f0f222ef-e60e-4397-83ac-bec1a6ac2d08n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-01 16:40                         ` AW: " denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0
     [not found]                           ` <2a8d940b3675472fb4b50ead406f6fc7-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-01 16:43                             ` John Carter Wood
     [not found]                               ` <b3deb0de-8ba0-4159-b9f3-1ecfbe68d457n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-02 20:02                                 ` BPJ
     [not found]                                   ` <CADAJKhAU66TxJKMZdDM-KVabJpmKUVo5xyuAAN03F2b89jv9Ow-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-03  5:41                                     ` Paulo Ney de Souza
     [not found]                                       ` <CAFVhNZMyj_GZ=Ao_1qR2rwnAAYAaQ=Maf880cGLRv7yD_ianpQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-03 12:15                                         ` BPJ
     [not found]                                           ` <CADAJKhBjTdgbY-xDouhDGfnE+J+V5c3v0FUA2Hn00z59==WeLw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-03 16:53                                             ` Paulo Ney de Souza
     [not found]                                               ` <CAFVhNZNNsfQs_Lt8agoaseyrNfdhrVOC9GTusMEdfecJFCBnug-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-03 19:43                                                 ` BPJ
     [not found]                                                   ` <CADAJKhCjht=mJqUgEbyHQWcp+P5gKjYUoEfe4VQAOa6SS1b5Ag-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-04  9:09                                                     ` BPJ [this message]
2022-07-01 16:54                             ` AW: " Sukil Etxenike arizaleta
     [not found]                               ` <6621a84d-37f3-6741-bb0a-d4bfd6dac4bf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-01 17:28                                 ` Sukil Etxenike arizaleta
2022-07-05 10:02                             ` John Carter Wood
     [not found]                               ` <5c2a1a00-28b9-4846-9541-92baaf0d5200n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-05 10:16                                 ` Albert Krewinkel
     [not found]                                   ` <87h73vj1m1.fsf-9EawChwDxG8hFhg+JK9F0w@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-05 11:45                                     ` John Carter Wood
     [not found]                                       ` <1ebf2a90-159e-4445-bf3a-b068526877cbn-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-05 11:49                                         ` Albert Krewinkel
     [not found]                                           ` <87czejixon.fsf-9EawChwDxG8hFhg+JK9F0w@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-05 12:02                                             ` John Carter Wood
2022-07-05 12:05                                         ` Sukil Etxenike arizaleta
2022-07-05 15:50                                         ` AW: " denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0
     [not found]                                           ` <2bb67f22fc3044088f798c777f3684d2-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org>
2022-07-07 19:05                                             ` denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0
2022-07-05 10:38                                 ` denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0
2022-07-02 16:28         ` BPJ

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