From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/26012 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: BPJ Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: Markdown Discord/Slack? Just a thought... 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[2a00:1450:4864:20::129]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w6si106903wmk.2.2020.08.27.04.15.26 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Aug 2020 04:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::129 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::129; Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x129.google.com with SMTP id c8so2690392lfh.9 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 2020 04:15:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:ac2:508c:: with SMTP id f12mr9651836lfm.175.1598526925880; Thu, 27 Aug 2020 04:15:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20200826194152.GA3069-AWr1gsF+PRs9Vg2ZJzWmxBLO4URiXwcH@public.gmane.org> X-Original-Sender: melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b="Ny/++oTS"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.text.pandoc:26012 Archived-At: --00000000000094bfa305adda0d96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry to say this is probably to a great extent a generational thing. Those who have grown up with the web and smartphones find the web and apps to be the "natural" way and appreciate that workflow, while we who used to live in a pre-smartphone or even a pre-web and/or pre-internet and/or pre-GUI world appreciate the plaintext work flow and the powers that gives. Yet it is a bit strange that this dichotomy should make itself felt in the Pandoc community, since to the probable majority who use Markdown or the other light-weight markup formats Pandoc supports as input format Pandoc *is* a plaintext workflow, and I would expect most if not all of us to be Markdown "literate". Surely we use Pandoc because we prefer to author in the plaintext-based WYGIWYM formats rather than in a GUI/WYSIWYG? Perhaps the difference here is whether you view Markdown etc. text/markup solely as an ancillary format which should be converted to something else before being presented to the world, or also as a legitimate format for "enriched" plaintext in its own right, which has an aesthetic of its own, legitimate to use in plaintext email. (After all Markdown traces its roots to informal plaintext markup conventions of email and usenet (RIP)!) I'm perhaps unusual in that I fiercely prefer plaintext and plaintext editors to menu-driven GUI workflows. In my case the reason for that is that I suffer from a motor disability which makes using a menu/mouse-driven GUI somewhat difficult for me =E2=80=94 especially if the menus aren't stay= -down =E2=80=94, yet I fully believe that I would prefer a plaintext interface (read: be a Vim user :-) regardless. Ironically I read most of my email in the Gmail app on my phone, since I have to lie down for several hours every day, and tend to use that time for activities which can be conducted on a handheld device, like reading, whether documents or email. However when *writing* email I usually switch to an on-phone plaintext editor, write what I need to write, naturally using Markdown syntax to enrich the semantics of the text, then paste the result into the Gmail composition window, foregoing any formatting controls which anyway are hard for me to use, and foregoing rendering since Pandoc anyway isn't available on my handhelds. Maybe I'm making a virtue out of a necessity, but I like to believe that it not *just* that and that I would have been a "plaintext person" anyway. --=20 Better --help|less than helpless --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= pandoc-discuss/CADAJKhBc0kv%2BitbuBVVcBHsEeMmOzr5dBihmtzFSSFYFAopuJg%40mail= .gmail.com. --00000000000094bfa305adda0d96 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry to say this is probably to a grea= t extent a generational thing. Those who have grown up with the web and sma= rtphones find the web and apps to be the "natural" way and apprec= iate that workflow, while we who used to live in a pre-smartphone or even a= pre-web and/or pre-internet and/or pre-GUI world appreciate the plaintext = work flow and the powers that gives.

Yet it is a bit strange that this dichotomy should make itself= felt in the Pandoc community, since to the probable majority who use Markd= own or the other light-weight markup formats Pandoc supports as input forma= t Pandoc *is* a plaintext workflow, and I would expect most if not all of u= s to be Markdown "literate". Surely we use Pandoc because we pref= er to author in the plaintext-based WYGIWYM formats rather than in a GUI/WY= SIWYG? Perhaps the difference here is whether you view Markdown etc. text/m= arkup solely as an ancillary format which should be converted to something = else before being presented to the world, or also as a legitimate format fo= r "enriched" plaintext in its own right, which has an aesthetic o= f its own, legitimate to use in plaintext email. (After all Markdown traces= its roots to informal plaintext markup conventions of email and usenet (RI= P)!)

I'm perhaps unu= sual in that I fiercely prefer plaintext and plaintext editors to menu-driv= en GUI workflows. In my case the reason for that is that I suffer from a mo= tor disability which makes using a menu/mouse-driven GUI somewhat difficult= for me =E2=80=94 especially if the menus aren't stay-down =E2=80=94, y= et I fully believe that I would prefer a plaintext interface (read: be a Vi= m user :-) regardless. Ironically I read most of my email in the Gmail app = on my phone, since I have to lie down for several hours every day, and tend= to use that time for activities which can be conducted on a handheld devic= e, like reading, whether documents or email. However when *writing* email I= usually switch to an on-phone plaintext editor, write what I need to write= , naturally using Markdown syntax to enrich the semantics of the text, then= paste the result into the Gmail composition window, foregoing any formatti= ng controls which anyway are hard for me to use, and foregoing rendering si= nce Pandoc anyway isn't available on my handhelds. Maybe I'm making= a virtue out of a necessity, but I like to believe that it not *just* that= and that I would have been a "plaintext person" anyway.

--=C2=A0
= Better --help|less than helpless

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