From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/32711 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: BPJ Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: reference grammar (was: unknown) Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 12:27:17 +0200 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000881b6705fcbe6a7d" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14822"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: pandoc-discuss Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBCWMVYEK54FRBDWZZSRQMGQEB56M7QI-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Sun May 28 12:27:32 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from mail-pf1-f192.google.com ([209.85.210.192]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1q3DcZ-0003fx-Qz for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org; 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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::1136]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s32-20020a056a0017a000b0064d71940f98si905946pfg.5.2023.05.28.03.27.25 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 28 May 2023 03:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1136 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1136; Original-Received: by mail-yw1-x1136.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-565ee3d14c2so6238567b3.2 for ; Sun, 28 May 2023 03:27:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a0d:c141:0:b0:565:f0bd:edd0 with SMTP id c62-20020a0dc141000000b00565f0bdedd0mr1889252ywd.29.1685269644842; Sun, 28 May 2023 03:27:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20221208 header.b="FF/CqD5m"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1136 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.text.pandoc:32711 Archived-At: --000000000000881b6705fcbe6a7d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First of all apologies for forgetting to put a subject on my original post! Den fre 26 maj 2023 00:20Rik skrev: > On 2023-05-25 09:52, BPJ wrote: > > (Apologies to those who get cross-posts of this =E2=80=94 I hope to rea= ch as > > many as possible, and believe that there may be people here who have > > relevant experience.) > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > I'm looking for advice from people who have used LaTeX, preferably > > XeLaTeX but LuaLaTeX is interesting too,[1] to write a (=E2=80=9Ctradit= ional=E2=80=9D) > > reference grammar (or even better an historical reference grammar), and > > if so have you anything to share =E2=80=94 code or pointers or examples= ? I will > > almost certainly mesh LaTeX and Pandoc so experiences from handling the > > issues mentioned below in that context are very welcome. > > > > I have tried to find something on CTAN but have come up empty handed, > > and googling =E2=80=9Cwrite [natural language] reference grammar with L= aTeX=E2=80=9D has > > proved useless. > > > > The first feature I will need is section numbers =E2=80=94 =E2=80=9C=C2= =A7 42=E2=80=9D style =E2=80=94 which > are > > > > - in the left margin against a paragraph; > > - possible to reference with links in the PDF; > > - preferably using a label since the actual numbers may be subject to > > change when adding/moving around parts; > > - with running =C2=A7 numbers (of first =C2=A7 on left page and (pref= erably) > > last =C2=A7 on right page) in the page headers; > > - independent of chapter/heading structure: a =C2=A7 number/label sta= nds > > against a paragraph rather than a heading, and naturally a paragraph ma= y > > or may not have one; > > - possibile to have indices =E2=80=94 index rerum and index verborum = for > > multiple languages =E2=80=94 referring to =C2=A7 numbers rather than pa= ges. > > > > So I think that more generally this is about > > > > - custom label/reference categories; > > - custom counters; > > - getting things into the (left) margin flush with the top of a > paragraph; > > - getting custom things (involving counters) into page headers; > > - custom index formats, specifically indices referencing other number= s > > than page numbers.[2] > > > > I fully expect to have to set up most of this myself, and am willing to > > write external scripts to deal with aspects of it =E2=80=94 preferred l= anguage > > Perl (which I have been using since the mid nineties) and I=E2=80=99m a= ble and > > willing to use PerlTeX if convenient, since I=E2=80=99m a far better Pe= rl than > > TeX programmer, although getting a grip on LaTeX solutions would be > > wonderful! :-) I also have Lua experience but as I'm using above-ASCII > > Unicode a lot Lua may be less useful. FWIW I have a good grip on how to > > do Unicode-aware/custom-order sorting in Perl and I have even written > > (slow) code to do Unicode-aware/custom-order sorting in Lua. > > > > [1] This involves needing to use system fonts and Unicode/UTF-8 encoded > > text using multiple scripts. Mostly Latin, IPA, Greek and some Cyrillic= , > > but using some =E2=80=9Cexotic=E2=80=9D Latin letters and combining mar= ks. > > > > [2] This looks relevant: > >. Using memoir seems to > > be a good idea anyway. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > an email to > > pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > . > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CADAJKhBggA8DZjkoC%3Dm7G= vWRK-PdG-eDByP03tE47znBY4qOiw%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CADAJKhBggA8DZjkoC%3Dm7G= vWRK-PdG-eDByP03tE47znBY4qOiw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_sourc= e=3Dfooter > >. > I believe that ConTeXt can handle all of these requirements. Refer to > \definelabel and related for the first three requirements, > \definemarking and related for the next, and register subentries for the > last (see https://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context-wvrSQK3plZs@public.gmane.org/msg74028.html) > for more on that. > That looks promising, if it is worth the learning curve since there are a number of LaTeX packages which I already rely on which may not have a ready ConTeXt equivalent. How hard would it be to define a sort order for a new script, perhaps wholly or partly located in the/a PUA? > -- > Rik > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "pandoc-discuss" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/u4omtu%24jj4%241%40ciao.= gmane.io > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= pandoc-discuss/CADAJKhDp12Y8yc8uzA75zL%2BPe-3_G%3D8RKe_8t%3DCAkgB1QxUwpQ%40= mail.gmail.com. --000000000000881b6705fcbe6a7d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
First of all apologies for forgetting to put a subje= ct on my original post!

Den fre 26 maj 2023 00:20Rik <amphiboly-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> skrev:
On 2023-05-25 09:52, BPJ wrote:
> (Apologies to those who get cross-posts of this =E2=80=94 I hope to re= ach as
> many as possible, and believe that there may be people here who have <= br> > relevant experience.)
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm looking for advice from people who have used LaTeX, preferably=
> XeLaTeX but LuaLaTeX is interesting too,[1] to write a (=E2=80=9Ctradi= tional=E2=80=9D)
> reference grammar (or even better an historical reference grammar), an= d
> if so have you anything to share =E2=80=94 code or pointers or example= s? I will
> almost certainly mesh LaTeX and Pandoc so experiences from handling th= e
> issues mentioned below in that context are very welcome.
>
> I have tried to find something on CTAN but have come up empty handed, =
> and googling =E2=80=9Cwrite [natural language] reference grammar with = LaTeX=E2=80=9D has
> proved useless.
>
> The first feature I will need is section numbers =E2=80=94 =E2=80=9C= =C2=A7 42=E2=80=9D style =E2=80=94 which are
>
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the left margin against a paragraph;
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0possible to reference with links in the PDF;
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0preferably using a label since the actual numbers may be= subject to
> change when adding/moving around parts;
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0with running =C2=A7 numbers (of first =C2=A7 on left pag= e and (preferably)
> last =C2=A7 on right page) in the page headers;
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0independent of chapter/heading structure: a =C2=A7 numbe= r/label stands
> against a paragraph rather than a heading, and naturally a paragraph m= ay
> or may not have one;
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0possibile to have indices =E2=80=94 index rerum and inde= x verborum for
> multiple languages =E2=80=94 referring to =C2=A7 numbers rather than p= ages.
>
> So I think that more generally this is about
>
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0custom label/reference categories;
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0custom counters;
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0getting things into the (left) margin flush with the top= of a paragraph;
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0getting custom things (involving counters) into page hea= ders;
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0custom index formats, specifically indices referencing o= ther numbers
> than page numbers.[2]
>
> I fully expect to have to set up most of this myself, and am willing t= o
> write external scripts to deal with aspects of it =E2=80=94 preferred = language
> Perl (which I have been using since the mid nineties) and I=E2=80=99m = able and
> willing to use PerlTeX if convenient, since I=E2=80=99m a far better P= erl than
> TeX programmer, although getting a grip on LaTeX solutions would be > wonderful! :-) I also have Lua experience but as I'm using above-A= SCII
> Unicode a lot Lua may be less useful. FWIW I have a good grip on how t= o
> do Unicode-aware/custom-order sorting in Perl and I have even written =
> (slow) code to do Unicode-aware/custom-order sorting in Lua.
>
> [1] This involves needing to use system fonts and Unicode/UTF-8 encode= d
> text using multiple scripts. Mostly Latin, IPA, Greek and some Cyrilli= c,
> but using some =E2=80=9Cexotic=E2=80=9D Latin letters and combining ma= rks.
>
> [2] This looks relevant: <https://tex.= stackexchange.com/a/63674/93534
> <https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/63674= /93534>>.=C2=A0 Using memoir seems to
> be a good idea anyway.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send=
> an email to
> pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org=
> <mailto:pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe@googl= egroups.com>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc= -discuss/CADAJKhBggA8DZjkoC%3Dm7GvWRK-PdG-eDByP03tE47znBY4qOiw%40mail.gmail= .com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CADAJKhBggA8DZ= jkoC%3Dm7GvWRK-PdG-eDByP03tE47znBY4qOiw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=3Demail= &utm_source=3Dfooter>.


I believe that ConTeXt can handle all of these requirements. Refer to
\definelabel and related for the first three requirements,
\definemarking and related for the next, and register subentries for the last (see https://www.mail-a= rchive.com/ntg-context-wvrSQK3plZs@public.gmane.org/msg74028.html)
for more on that.

<= div dir=3D"auto">That looks promising, if it is worth the learning curve si= nce there are a number of LaTeX packages which I already rely on which may = not have a ready ConTeXt equivalent. How hard would it be to define a sort = order for a new script, perhaps wholly or partly located in the/a PUA?

<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
--
Rik

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