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[209.85.218.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k22-20020a2ea276000000b0024da01a8c6dsi604846ljm.1.2022.05.31.04.34.13 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 31 May 2022 04:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 209.85.218.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.218.43; Original-Received: by mail-ej1-f43.google.com with SMTP id y13so26057586eje.2 for ; Tue, 31 May 2022 04:34:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:7d91:b0:6fe:efb8:8f97 with SMTP id oz17-20020a1709077d9100b006feefb88f97mr36354660ejc.717.1653996852858; Tue, 31 May 2022 04:34:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 209.85.218.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=melroch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.text.pandoc:30642 Archived-At: --000000000000dfd5d605e04d26f0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Den tis 31 maj 2022 11:02Bastien DUMONT skrev: > I have met the problem of adapting CSL to specific requirements too... > Although I study History, it seems that we are facing common drawbacks. I > defined a set of conventions for the recording of bibliographical entries > in Zotero and wrote a sample style. You can find the style and the > documentation here: > https://zenodo.org/communities/csl-clio/search?page=3D1&size=3D20 > > I don't think that you will want to take it as is, but I hope it could be > inspiring. It is in French, but you can retrieve the source of the manual > and translate it automatically if you don't read this language. > In the android Chrome app (and I suppose other Chrome versions too) there is a "Translate page" (or something similar, I have the Swedish version! :-) item in the =E2=8B=AE menu which will translate a page and all linked p= ages on the fly. It's Google Translate of course so results may be funny at times but translation where one of the languages is English usually are passable for on-the-fly reading =E2=80=94 not that it will put me out of translation= jobs anytime soon! > Le Tuesday 31 May 2022 =C3=A0 11:29:02AM, Shane Liesegang a =C3=A9crit : > > Here they are in a gist. > > > > [1]https://gist.github.com/sjml/30b1f0093e48f37408871cc142d3dc12 > > > > My program deals a lot with ancient and theological sources and has ver= y > > specific requirements for how certain citations look. I=E2=80=99m sure = at least > *some* > > of this could be done by modifying a CSL (like using =E2=80=9C=C2=A7=E2= =80=9D instead of > =E2=80=9Csec.=E2=80=9D in > > the locators), but others are around specific works (like the Summa > Theologica) > > or types of documents (papal encyclicals), and as far as I can tell, CS= L > > doesn=E2=80=99t have that level of conditional processing. (I also spea= k Lua far > better > > than I do CSL. :) ) > > > > What really inspired this question was the institutional abbreviation > filters =E2=80=94 > > on a second citation of certain institutional sources, they should be > referred > > to by their abbreviation. But until CSL 1.1, there=E2=80=99s no support= for short > > author names=E2=80=A6 so I track subsequent mentions, suppress the auth= or, and > add in > > the abbreviation after citeproc has done its work. But when I=E2=80=99m= trying > to do > > that insertion into a citation with multiple sources, you see the kind = of > > weirdness I do in [2]that post-filter. Would be great if I could just > look for > > a Span with an attribute that maps to a citation key or something like > that. > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 2022, at 10:24 AM, <[3]denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org> <[4] > > denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > No, I=E2=80=99m not interested in anything in particular. Just gene= ral > interest. > > > > Von: [5]pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org <[6] > pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > > Im Auftrag von Shane Liesegang > > Gesendet: Montag, 30. Mai 2022 15:43 > > An: [7]pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > Betreff: Re: Separating multiple citations in generated footnote > > > > I haven't made the repository public yet, but would be happy to > share a > > subset -- is there anything in particular you're interested in, or > just > > general interest in citation filtering? > > > > On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 11:14 AM <[8]denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > I don=E2=80=99t have a particular suggestion for what you need,= but I > might be > > interested in what you already do. could you perhaps share your > > filters ? > > > > Best, > > Denis > > > > Von: [9]pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org <[10] > > pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> Im Auftrag von Shane Liesegang > > Gesendet: Montag, 30. Mai 2022 09:07 > > An: pandoc-discuss <[11]pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > > Betreff: Separating multiple citations in generated footnote > > > > My institution has a few specific citation style requirements > that > > stray from the standard Chicago Style. The changes are mostly > around > > specific works, so it's difficult-to-impossible to meet the > > requirements by making a new CSL. > > > > For the most part I'm able to handle it with Lua filters. I > intercept > > the citation reference both before and after --citeproc runs an= d > make > > whatever changes I need to; this might entail changing the styl= e > to > > SuppressAuthor, making some capitalization/punctuation changes, > etc. In > > general this works well, but where it gets difficult is if a > single > > Cite element contains multiple citations. In that case, looking > at the > > generated footnote, there's no hard indicator of which portion > came > > from which citation. I've got something working based on > scanning for > > semicolons, but I worry that's a little bit fragile and will > probably > > break on certain sets of reference data. > > > > Is there any good way of mapping portions of the footnote to > citation > > keys? I was thinking to wrap them in a span with some custom > metadata, > > but I can only see the citations either before --citeproc (when > the > > footnote doesn't exist yet) or after (when the multiple > citations have > > already combined). What would be truly ideal would be the > ability to > > filter the citation process itself, but I'm assuming since > that's from > > a different library that it is not exposed to Lua? > > > > Like I said, I have something mostly working now, but any > thoughts/ > > advice would be appreciated. > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > > Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send > > an email to [12]pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > > To view this discussion on the web visit [13] > https://groups.google.com/ > > d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/ > > baf8fe27-c662-4825-981d-b49fb7b38d71n%40googlegroups.com. > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic > in the > > Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit [14] > https://groups.google.com/d/ > > topic/pandoc-discuss/uIe_wOxcGUs/unsubscribe. > > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an emai= l > to > > [15]pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > > To view this discussion on the web visit [16] > https://groups.google.com/ > > d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/8ed092b504f248fa984c4284113f68ff% > 40unibe.ch. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "pandoc-discuss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an > > email to [17]pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > > To view this discussion on the web visit [18] > https://groups.google.com/d/ > > msgid/pandoc-discuss/ > > CAD7-qeusumC9zcpbCGbjevJ6J9Vdi4W8YJyTjiTmbR_yk5%2Bmrg% > 40mail.gmail.com. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in > the > > Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit [19] > https://groups.google.com/d/topic > > /pandoc-discuss/uIe_wOxcGUs/unsubscribe. > > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [20] > > pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > > To view this discussion on the web visit [21] > https://groups.google.com/d/ > > msgid/pandoc-discuss/873d53586f8b4f968ac667b38da1796c%40unibe.ch. > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > > "pandoc-discuss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email > > to [22]pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > > To view this discussion on the web visit [23] > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ > > pandoc-discuss/25193173-1E8E-4A2B-81C2-9AB3BBE6DC12%40gmail.com. > > > > References: > > > > [1] https://gist.github.com/sjml/30b1f0093e48f37408871cc142d3dc12 > > [2] > https://gist.github.com/sjml/30b1f0093e48f37408871cc142d3dc12#file-post-f= ilter-institutional-abbreviations-lua > > [3] mailto:denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org > > [4] mailto:denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org > > [5] mailto:pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > [6] mailto:pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > [7] mailto:pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > [8] mailto:denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org > > [9] mailto:pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > [10] mailto:pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > [11] mailto:pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > [12] mailto:pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > [13] > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/baf8fe27-c662-4825-981d-= b49fb7b38d71n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter > > [14] > 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Den tis 31 maj 2022 11:02Bastien DUMONT <bastien.dumont-VwIFZPTo/vqsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> skrev:=
I have met the problem of adapting= CSL to specific requirements too... Although I study History, it seems tha= t we are facing common drawbacks. I defined a set of conventions for the re= cording of bibliographical entries in Zotero and wrote a sample style. You = can find the style and the documentation here: https://zenodo.org/communities/csl-clio/search?p= age=3D1&size=3D20

I don't think that you will want to take it as is, but I hope it could = be inspiring. It is in French, but you can retrieve the source of the manua= l and translate it automatically if you don't read this language.

In the= android Chrome app (and I suppose other Chrome versions too) there is a &q= uot;Translate page" (or something similar, I have the Swedish version!= :-) item in the =E2=8B=AE menu which will translate a page and all linked = pages on the fly. It's Google Translate of course so results may be fun= ny at times but translation where one of the languages is English usually a= re passable for on-the-fly reading =E2=80=94 not that it will put me out of= translation jobs anytime soon!



Le Tuesday 31 May 2022 =C3=A0 11:29:02AM, Shane Liesegang a =C3=A9crit : > Here they are in a gist.
>
> [1]https://gist.github.= com/sjml/30b1f0093e48f37408871cc142d3dc12
>
> My program deals a lot with ancient and theological sources and has ve= ry
> specific requirements for how certain citations look. I=E2=80=99m sure= at least *some*
> of this could be done by modifying a CSL (like using =E2=80=9C=C2=A7= =E2=80=9D instead of =E2=80=9Csec.=E2=80=9D in
> the locators), but others are around specific works (like the Summa Th= eologica)
> or types of documents (papal encyclicals), and as far as I can tell, C= SL
> doesn=E2=80=99t have that level of conditional processing. (I also spe= ak Lua far better
> than I do CSL. :) )
>
> What really inspired this question was the institutional abbreviation = filters =E2=80=94
> on a second citation of certain institutional sources, they should be = referred
> to by their abbreviation. But until CSL 1.1, there=E2=80=99s no suppor= t for short
> author names=E2=80=A6 so I track subsequent mentions, suppress the aut= hor, and add in
> the abbreviation after citeproc has done its work. But when I=E2=80=99= m trying to do
> that insertion into a citation with multiple sources, you see the kind= of
> weirdness I do in [2]that post-filter. Would be great if I could just = look for
> a Span with an attribute that maps to a citation key or something like= that.
>
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On May 31, 2022, at 10:24 AM, <[3]denis.maier@= unibe.ch> <[4]
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0No, I=E2=80=99m not interested in anything in parti= cular. Just general interest.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Von: [5]pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh4Ykp1iOSErHA@public.gmane.org= m <[6]pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Im Auftrag von Shane Liesegang
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gesendet: Montag, 30. Mai 2022 15:43
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0An: [7]pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Betreff: Re: Separating multiple citations in gener= ated footnote
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I haven't made the repository public yet, but w= ould be happy to share a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0subset -- is there anything in particular you'r= e interested in, or just
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0general interest in citation filtering?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 11:14 AM <[8]denis.mai= er-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I don=E2=80=99t have a particular sug= gestion for what you need, but I might be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0interested in what you already do. co= uld you perhaps share your
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0filters ?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Best,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Denis
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Von: [9]pandoc-discuss@g= ooglegroups.com <[10]
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pandoc-discuss@googlegro= ups.com> Im Auftrag von Shane Liesegang
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gesendet: Montag, 30. Mai 2022 09:07<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0An: pandoc-discuss <[11]pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Betreff: Separating multiple citation= s in generated footnote
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0My institution has a few specific cit= ation style requirements that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0stray from the standard Chicago Style= . The changes are mostly around
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0specific works, so it's difficult= -to-impossible to meet the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0requirements by making a new CSL. >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0For the most part I'm able to han= dle it with Lua filters. I intercept
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the citation reference both before an= d after --citeproc runs and make
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0whatever changes I need to; this migh= t entail changing the style to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SuppressAuthor, making some capitaliz= ation/punctuation changes, etc. In
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0general this works well, but where it= gets difficult is if a single
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cite element contains multiple citati= ons. In that case, looking at the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0generated footnote, there's no ha= rd indicator of which portion came
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0from which citation. I've got som= ething working based on scanning for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0semicolons, but I worry that's a = little bit fragile and will probably
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0break on certain sets of reference da= ta.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Is there any good way of mapping port= ions of the footnote to citation
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0keys? I was thinking to wrap them in = a span with some custom metadata,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0but I can only see the citations eith= er before --citeproc (when the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0footnote doesn't exist yet) or af= ter (when the multiple citations have
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0already combined). What would be trul= y ideal would be the ability to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0filter the citation process itself, b= ut I'm assuming since that's from
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a different library that it is not ex= posed to Lua?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Like I said, I have something mostly = working now, but any thoughts/
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0advice would be appreciated.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
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>
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> References:
>
> [1] https://gist.github= .com/sjml/30b1f0093e48f37408871cc142d3dc12
> [2] https://gist.github.com/sjml/30b1f0093e48f374= 08871cc142d3dc12#file-post-filter-institutional-abbreviations-lua
> [3] mailto:denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org
> [4] mailto:denis.maier-NSENcxR/0n0@public.gmane.org
> [5] mailto:pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
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