From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/23420 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: BP Jonsson Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: Accessibility of Generated Docx Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 22:00:35 +0200 Message-ID: References: <677959fb-29b8-4eaa-837f-c53e5ea5ab51@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d490e0059274b57f" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="20281"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: pandoc-discuss Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBDIY76M674FRB4HK57VQKGQEEOMHQTA-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Fri Sep 13 22:00:53 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-io1-f63.google.com ([209.85.166.63]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i8rkR-000525-Fw for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 22:00:51 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-io1-f63.google.com with SMTP id o3sf39696439iom.13 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 13:00:51 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1568404850; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=bN+SW0BkQr2Dzi3l6eJrYKnRq8x+TgxJlZ7D8CHQhBUlM66xchOOGO7X+jCu7kVZeN plm1KK0rXQLjXeGTk/Y0VlyFQx89YFnIG94Ytpebls+ZtIZ6HqhBprO9AuwZnuz3BiYI 7s1We8tkgMK+S0Ny1qSrrofuUzpvmfeywwfyDUhSATZ4zfBxHtdR5w2molpaV6aLG9lz SJ9mpWDt4BGufddwsOgXIvgzI972ZSDPJPLqd8i+h9gLpGe5NzkVs+muk0oUb+Vqc+tJ I0BZ6hzREfwRESsih53R1DR5S4NHQZd4vBTMdC+V5UFj6AutEmfMkxHAYG+SYIEww6bx /h6w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:to:subject:message-id:date :from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:sender:dkim-signature :dkim-signature; bh=0c6b+GhKXwtkHXu/4JQ4pkgstAChEtEjDpilzn+NM84=; b=aXxcGLqfrxlg8QREvnnt41OJ3p/KP8UHnOsYyHVVQCJ3lhwhuuEed7Y5Rvpghbh13M SMwKCWoeg06k/QLnEQtCBdVZAKYuRdDmz9/5BfXIIPfi6vIa8WPbN+J12M5ROBiyNujo 2bBgzmeAjAfwGa7l3KT2rEXVE4l74oHmK7mVv4Oq6SLkdqlTOU5MuGMCE6+1pL5f/T80 PQ/j04b//HY5YEK0DikrdfYf7hL7HzIqCa4W+qVaJBAzM2UpiuNF5Fq4MFZkFNzpOmPa tAVKXQAdrs7rB1C1yHOxnZJcGAgIBOZJSUsRqv7IUcbWlcznHRATKrKJ+bFqhf9OksS+ ahtA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=q+3vuWG8; spf=pass (google.com: domain of bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::533 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=0c6b+GhKXwtkHXu/4JQ4pkgstAChEtEjDpilzn+NM84=; b=ZNKUPBIhXZd1bQ/r6MI9qiogW+qFzAgXnmPFFoVdsl06cYwz5r5pdVmBT9w1Fhvy2y Sl05iNByi42TJTNxd9/eJiPCCO0139wjaaZLwWmgtyuDhLE7V+bLSwS7jScb19GLJ8O4 l7X5QZrj5n5qPqlnk9D/pNtSMUan3PeqroOX+NVu195W+qYxci941otRi3l/TCrbD7mA H1y3lcsTJfQcZxsEQCTnyI0ZvNhQIrZRogN72Tyo8mH8jr65Qok9h1rBtAlGxjvXFJV6 uj5ThLZQnlLG1GNfdNoqnNclCdPIrrEaBEZp/Pg+9IN0xqwba6Ox4tP4VnK8i170OgNt J2GQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=0c6b+GhKXwtkHXu/4JQ4pkgstAChEtEjDpilzn+NM84=; b=kaYlnIb6+dI2a1hjRrEWkgUlDSV0RAMfeXRBVG/Fb/b3RBIfWgDeLE7TfgJoVGSoFT XNPrfeAkkuVw3SVeggt6VO4a7gXgEDYA5j716XL/LFfdNf+YyBmWKD25qWgw/eoh56Rs u3nrqHfhZu1qCjalCWqFTlqZm+VyFRp7D2fHKxk/VtPFEFGLi7I97JRj8XVhCl2YxD2y CJ2iRkl5+/vRCoeOnigsrvLPUAsX6knhef63qsuwy2h1kdivf9C2J1SvTFbHDeyXpXZY e82QRjJZVWIyIG8s8y+injoLARd+2sJTmw2CYuqtVSnPqWgWpaVriWjU8TDhDwfG4Y+8 n5hg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=0c6b+GhKXwtkHXu/4JQ4pkgstAChEtEjDpilzn+NM84=; b=S16CqCOhPThfvd3ydzO++jPOxUiuYHe0GlZtvb3n+B/7cDEA2fExUv1rb4mugPRFMm NB1KLRQtxSyFGHkcQk6H3TSEEXByoH1DyNKO9/5UPJYEEt/plkS3P2w2iqdbW8NI7KsP IZQw9Kyhl5MEe95XjCV5KQSQirqAnmgI18UDDN3Un1KGj3yOYVSvNj9iyHQ2YTD4UA/I r7GaBrInlKfiJ9TOB9sk43y14WCJ6990gbx+tn/jU04NHTjzH86CQBkz+IF/QveAPecd tFR2uDPmeRc4bZPzD9cCc60T85WQLRZLtulCyOWa1U2mH7kOYGqIjJRu+6Ngc3zXciMO 9XnA== Original-Sender: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWf+B/tQwOkaln5vtpp/51hUORHnF+RtgT6QAyerF03d8Or+xMh JzefUkbOjQQQJ6XoGrTVImw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxBG6V1RBBGJlSasp+dBTNeAKBPrHFHPJ+UJw2IrYANJ6WkUsep4dtMCOWkT7lxzrRT3KYGfw== X-Received: by 2002:a5e:930b:: with SMTP id k11mr1868433iom.2.1568404849656; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 13:00:49 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 2002:a02:3549:: with SMTP id y9ls3469871jae.7.gmail; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 13:00:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:c6:: with SMTP id w6mr373949jao.130.1568404848685; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 13:00:48 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1568404848; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=Fqm9bUWqA/u4mlURD4EeeSWAKo5mm4tfKd0gHfyheQSraY11oGHtCsjSZ4+2dl/Ib4 tDeE9xrtWZ11Vs/603knh6DnHQ+xInmrhbXIv7Wi8FTm2uYZIJdMbHvwfQE4ZeSCdf6Z X3aUC3Gxv7dfea3MY52PUQ1DGnI7soTglwUHO4QBJkhbCppobs+d4fl77yQ+JpWAOFHX wHz5/a72P9mVC70RuzjnzyHmA6UcjZNbs45ZNNAGWHtkf4DIPy7klSkbGFM8LZ0D9e1O Pf5KEpCxrBLWPozZ7BZC/Wyh9U77erze46sVEQe+ub5ky6U3ksaRLNPFiX1F5pWd7Nqr Ul6g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :dkim-signature; bh=1vU8b24OdpZczna6sxpB5ilFGTGPJkgdPrGuHXoylyU=; b=xjBjinzh2mtq0kSFxqL7QGIaqFJ+Hb2xIeTLxe7GgRaQ7TYsX7f9HuNYnR+lKASC0s 5Y0MsGnS/sElKLkOTxubD5QgN8PI9smo1pQT40XSaQ8AQp0mgmz3etgUUsz9dGCiLFH/ ujjXK8ei4Zxvri1h6oPDrc+KAgbs0n1oFJkfPQ6M70wwLr5pDEPmeOa38jwY7B2SpHcg XOax0teM3mOuQqAKbByUa1e6TJ6TcBiR7HA7x8a5p7c9b8qyWU9ScTP/JNQjRxXCfuui FMzIc61WkR6tjdXgGOauT7UjO5wAg4S8DbcFLHfqDw9GBjaHoJwIWeFFBupxiYNUVCZU oqsg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=q+3vuWG8; spf=pass (google.com: domain of bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::533 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x533.google.com (mail-pg1-x533.google.com. [2607:f8b0:4864:20::533]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q207si1422644iod.5.2019.09.13.13.00.48 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Sep 2019 13:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::533 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::533; Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x533.google.com with SMTP id j191so5247220pgd.3 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 13:00:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a65:5144:: with SMTP id g4mr45047071pgq.202.1568404848020; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 13:00:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=q+3vuWG8; spf=pass (google.com: domain of bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::533 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.pandoc:23420 Archived-At: --000000000000d490e0059274b57f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I believe compatibility mode is helpful also when opening docx files in LibreOffice. At least even quite large files produced by Pandoc open much faster than some DOCX files people send me. Den fre 13 sep. 2019 19:31John MacFarlane skrev: > > We use compatibility mode so that the docx pandoc produces > will be readable by the widest variety of Word versions (even > quite old ones). > > This isn't itself an issue with accessibility; it's just an > issue with the Mac's checker I guess, and I don't think we should > modify pandoc just to work around that. > > We could change pandoc to avoid compatibility mode, but that > would mean our docxs can't be read by older Word versions. > At some point it may be worth having this conversation. > > In principle we could have a flag to generate either > compatibility mode or not, but that adds a lot of complexity > for little gain. > > > by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warnings > > associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic. > > The code coloring is affected by the --highlight-style option. We > provide several styles out of the box, including a monochrome > style which is very high contrast. You can also create and use > your own style. See the docs. > > > Conrad Cunningham writes: > > > I use pandoc to convert Pandoc-flavored Markdown documents to HTML > > (primarily), Word docx, PDF (via LaTeX), etc. I am currently using > pandoc > > 2.7.3. Microsoft Word for Mac 16.16.14, and MacTeX 2019 on MacOS 10.14.6 > > (Mojave). > > > > According to the tests I have run using the WebAIM WAVE tool, the > > accessibility of the generated HTML is reasonable. (I need to give some > > attention to places in the Markdown input where I use tables and alt > text.) > > > > For the generated docx, I am using Word for Mac's builtin accessibility > > checker. I found that the generated docx is in compatibility mode. Word > for > > Mac's accessibility checker cannot process that kind of file. If I load > the > > file into Word and then save as a normal docx, the checker will run. > > > > Is there a less inconvenient way to get the generated output into the > > normal docx mode? I would like to get the final output by running a > shell > > script on the Markdown input. > > > > The issues I have found so far in my limited tests are warnings about > > insufficient color contrasts and sequences of blank characters. Some of > > these (e.g., colors in section headers and hyperlinks) seem to be > fixable > > by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warnings > > associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/677959fb-29b8-4eaa-837f-c53e5ea5ab51%40googlegroups.com > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "pandoc-discuss" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/yh480k1rwk6r2b.fsf%40johnmacfarlane.net > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CAFC_yuTPDWN5yxYnSObFq3kiRp%2BZ%3DY3Kvd%2B67g16qz4D%2BEgeLA%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000d490e0059274b57f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I believe compatibility mode is helpful also when opening= docx files in LibreOffice. At least even quite large files produced by Pan= doc open much faster than some DOCX files people send me.
=

Den fre 13 sep. 2019 19:31John MacFarlane <jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org> skrev:

We use compatibility mode so that the docx pandoc produces
will be readable by the widest variety of Word versions (even
quite old ones).

This isn't itself an issue with accessibility; it's just an
issue with the Mac's checker I guess, and I don't think we should modify pandoc just to work around that.

We could change pandoc to avoid compatibility mode, but that
would mean our docxs can't be read by older Word versions.
At some point it may be worth having this conversation.

In principle we could have a flag to generate either
compatibility mode or not, but that adds a lot of complexity
for little gain.

> by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warning= s
> associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic= .

The code coloring is affected by the --highlight-style option. We
provide several styles out of the box, including a monochrome
style which is very high contrast. You can also create and use
your own style. See the docs.


Conrad Cunningham <hcc.olemiss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> I use pandoc to convert Pandoc-flavored Markdown documents to HTML > (primarily), Word docx, PDF (via LaTeX), etc. I am currently using pan= doc
> 2.7.3. Microsoft Word for Mac 16.16.14, and MacTeX 2019 on MacOS 10.14= .6
> (Mojave).
>
> According to the tests I have run using the WebAIM WAVE tool, the
> accessibility of the generated HTML is reasonable. (I need to give som= e
> attention to places in the Markdown input where I use tables and alt t= ext.)
>
> For the generated docx, I am using Word for Mac's builtin accessib= ility
> checker. I found that the generated docx is in compatibility mode. Wor= d for
> Mac's accessibility checker cannot process that kind of file. If I= load the
> file into Word and then save as a normal docx, the checker will run. >
> Is there a less inconvenient way to get the generated output into the =
> normal docx mode? I would like to get the final output by running a sh= ell
> script on the Markdown input.
>
> The issues I have found so far in my limited tests are warnings about =
> insufficient color contrasts and sequences of blank characters. Some o= f
> these (e.g., colors in section headers and hyperlinks) seem to be fixa= ble
> by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warning= s
> associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic= .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups= .google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/677959fb-29b8-4eaa-837f-c53e5ea5ab51%40g= ooglegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;pandoc-discuss" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe@googlegroups.= com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/p= andoc-discuss/yh480k1rwk6r2b.fsf%40johnmacfarlane.net.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;pandoc-discuss" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pand= oc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https:/= /groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CAFC_yuTPDWN5yxYnSObFq3kiRp%2BZ%3= DY3Kvd%2B67g16qz4D%2BEgeLA%40mail.gmail.com.
--000000000000d490e0059274b57f--