'von' names, sort order, biblatex, and citeproc-hs

'von' names, sort order, biblatex, and citeproc-hs

[Thomas Hodgson]

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I'm not sure whether this is strictly speaking a Pandoc question (rather 
than citeproc-hs?), but it's a question that arose when using Pandoc so 
I'll ask it anyway.

Some surnames of the form 'von X' should be sorted with X rather than 'v' 
(see e.g. http://kaivonfintel.org/von/). This is easy enough with biblatex 
because one can add a 'Sortkey' field. Here's an example record:

```
@article{vonFintelGillies2008,
Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
Doi = {10.1215/00318108-2007-025},
Journaltitle = {The Philosophical Review},
Number = {1},
Pages = {77--98},
Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
Title = {{CIA} Leaks},
Volume = {117},
Year = {2008}
}
```

Using Pandoc with a CSL file this entry would be sorted with 'v' though. Is 
there something I can add to my .bib file, or some setting I can use to 
make it sort using 'Sortkey'? Or some other way to get the effect I want?


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Re: 'von' names, sort order, biblatex, and citeproc-hs

[nickbart1980-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w]

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This should be possible if you use a CSL style containing 
`demote-non-dropping-particle="sort-only"` (for details see 
http://citationstyles.org/downloads/specification.html#name-particles).

There are many such styles; the one I used for testing is 
`taylor-and-francis-chicago-f.csl`.

Interestingly, many popular styles such as `chicago-author-date.csl` or 
`apa.csl` contain `demote-non-dropping-particle="never"` instead, which 
would not give the effect you want. I am not sure why this is, maybe it's 
an oversight, but to shed light on this one would have to consult the style 
manuals.

Now, with a CSL YAML database this works well:

```
pandoc -s -F pandoc-citeproc -t markdown-citations << EOT

@fi @fa @fu

---
csl: taylor-and-francis-chicago-f.csl
references:
- author:
  - family: Fintel
    non-dropping-particle: von
    given: Kai
  id: fi
  issued:
    date-parts:
    - - 2008
  title: Title
  type: article-journal
- author:
  - family: Fahrenheit
    given: Gabriel Daniel
  id: fa
  issued:
    date-parts:
    - - 2008
  title: Title
  type: article-journal
- author:
  - family: Fulton
    given: Robert
  id: fu
  issued:
    date-parts:
    - - 2008
  title: Title
  type: article-journal
...
EOT
```

gives

```
Fahrenheit, G.D. 2008. Title.

von Fintel, K. 2008. Title.

Fulton, R. 2008. Title.
```

Next, the preferred biblatex way of specifying your author would be 

```
Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
useprefix = {true},
Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
```

rather than

```
Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai},
Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
```

Only the first version gives pandoc-citeproc a chance to parse the name, 
including the prefix, correctly.

(From the biblatex manual: “useprefix=true, false — default: false — 
Whether the name prefix (von, van, of, da, de, della, etc.) is considered 
when printing the last name in citations. This also affects the sorting and 
formatting of the bibliography as well as the generation of certain types 
of labels. If this option is enabled, Biblatex always precedes the last 
name with the prefix. For example, Ludwig van Beethoven would be cited as 
“Beethoven” and alphabetized as “Beethoven, Ludwig van” by default. If this 
option is enabled, he is cited as “van Beethoven” and alphabetized as “Van 
Beethoven, Ludwig” instead. With Biber, this option is also settable on a 
per-type basis.”)


However, there seems to be a bug in pandoc-citeproc:

With the following bibfile.bib

```
@article{ut,
    Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
    useprefix = {true},
    Title = {Biblatex useprefix is true},
    Year = {2008},
}

@article{uf,
    Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
    useprefix = {false},
    Title = {Biblatex useprefix is false = default},
    Year = {2008},
}
```

the output of `pandoc-citeproc -y bibfile.bib` is

```
---
references:
- author:
  - family: Fintel
    dropping-particle: von
    given: Kai
  id: ut
  issued:
    date-parts:
    - - 2008
  title: Biblatex useprefix is true
  type: article-journal
- author:
  - family: Fintel
    dropping-particle: von
    given: Kai
  id: uf
  issued:
    date-parts:
    - - 2008
  title: Biblatex useprefix is false = default
  type: article-journal
...
```

The first author, in the entry with `useprefix = {true}`, should however be 
mapped to

```
- author:
  - family: Fintel
    non-dropping-particle: von
    given: Kai
```

I also reported this bug at 
https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-citeproc/issues/95.


On Thursday, 11 December 2014 18:33:14 UTC, Thomas Hodgson wrote:
>
> I'm not sure whether this is strictly speaking a Pandoc question (rather 
> than citeproc-hs?), but it's a question that arose when using Pandoc so 
> I'll ask it anyway.
>
> Some surnames of the form 'von X' should be sorted with X rather than 'v' 
> (see e.g. http://kaivonfintel.org/von/). This is easy enough with 
> biblatex because one can add a 'Sortkey' field. Here's an example record:
>
> ```
> @article{vonFintelGillies2008,
> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
> Doi = {10.1215/00318108-2007-025},
> Journaltitle = {The Philosophical Review},
> Number = {1},
> Pages = {77--98},
> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
> Title = {{CIA} Leaks},
> Volume = {117},
> Year = {2008}
> }
> ```
>
> Using Pandoc with a CSL file this entry would be sorted with 'v' though. 
> Is there something I can add to my .bib file, or some setting I can use to 
> make it sort using 'Sortkey'? Or some other way to get the effect I want?
>
>
>

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Re: 'von' names, sort order, biblatex, and citeproc-hs

[nickbart1980-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w]

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Two afterthoughts:

1. Of course you could edit any CSL style to use 
`demote-non-dropping-particle="sort-only"`.

2. Even only

```
Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai},
Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
```

or

```
Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
```

would give pandoc-citeproc a chance to correctly identify "von" as a 
non-dropping particle, by *comparing* author and sortkey. For the OP's 
problem, I'd still recommend using `useprefix`, though.

See also my post “On name parsing” in 
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!topic/pandoc-discuss/-SajbqoPX8k[1-25-false]. 
My proposal then, however, was to compare author and sortkey in case a 
dropping particle had already been identified but what would else be parsed 
as last name might still start with a non-dropping particle.


On Friday, 12 December 2014 10:50:48 UTC, nickba...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org wrote:
>
> This should be possible if you use a CSL style containing 
> `demote-non-dropping-particle="sort-only"` (for details see 
> http://citationstyles.org/downloads/specification.html#name-particles).
>
> There are many such styles; the one I used for testing is 
> `taylor-and-francis-chicago-f.csl`.
>
> Interestingly, many popular styles such as `chicago-author-date.csl` or 
> `apa.csl` contain `demote-non-dropping-particle="never"` instead, which 
> would not give the effect you want. I am not sure why this is, maybe it's 
> an oversight, but to shed light on this one would have to consult the style 
> manuals.
>
> Now, with a CSL YAML database this works well:
>
> ```
> pandoc -s -F pandoc-citeproc -t markdown-citations << EOT
>
> @fi @fa @fu
>
> ---
> csl: taylor-and-francis-chicago-f.csl
> references:
> - author:
>   - family: Fintel
>     non-dropping-particle: von
>     given: Kai
>   id: fi
>   issued:
>     date-parts:
>     - - 2008
>   title: Title
>   type: article-journal
> - author:
>   - family: Fahrenheit
>     given: Gabriel Daniel
>   id: fa
>   issued:
>     date-parts:
>     - - 2008
>   title: Title
>   type: article-journal
> - author:
>   - family: Fulton
>     given: Robert
>   id: fu
>   issued:
>     date-parts:
>     - - 2008
>   title: Title
>   type: article-journal
> ...
> EOT
> ```
>
> gives
>
> ```
> Fahrenheit, G.D. 2008. Title.
>
> von Fintel, K. 2008. Title.
>
> Fulton, R. 2008. Title.
> ```
>
> Next, the preferred biblatex way of specifying your author would be 
>
> ```
> Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
> useprefix = {true},
> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
> ```
>
> rather than
>
> ```
> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai},
> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
> ```
>
> Only the first version gives pandoc-citeproc a chance to parse the name, 
> including the prefix, correctly.
>
> (From the biblatex manual: “useprefix=true, false — default: false — 
> Whether the name prefix (von, van, of, da, de, della, etc.) is considered 
> when printing the last name in citations. This also affects the sorting and 
> formatting of the bibliography as well as the generation of certain types 
> of labels. If this option is enabled, Biblatex always precedes the last 
> name with the prefix. For example, Ludwig van Beethoven would be cited as 
> “Beethoven” and alphabetized as “Beethoven, Ludwig van” by default. If this 
> option is enabled, he is cited as “van Beethoven” and alphabetized as “Van 
> Beethoven, Ludwig” instead. With Biber, this option is also settable on a 
> per-type basis.”)
>
>
> However, there seems to be a bug in pandoc-citeproc:
>
> With the following bibfile.bib
>
> ```
> @article{ut,
>     Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>     useprefix = {true},
>     Title = {Biblatex useprefix is true},
>     Year = {2008},
> }
>
> @article{uf,
>     Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>     useprefix = {false},
>     Title = {Biblatex useprefix is false = default},
>     Year = {2008},
> }
> ```
>
> the output of `pandoc-citeproc -y bibfile.bib` is
>
> ```
> ---
> references:
> - author:
>   - family: Fintel
>     dropping-particle: von
>     given: Kai
>   id: ut
>   issued:
>     date-parts:
>     - - 2008
>   title: Biblatex useprefix is true
>   type: article-journal
> - author:
>   - family: Fintel
>     dropping-particle: von
>     given: Kai
>   id: uf
>   issued:
>     date-parts:
>     - - 2008
>   title: Biblatex useprefix is false = default
>   type: article-journal
> ...
> ```
>
> The first author, in the entry with `useprefix = {true}`, should however 
> be mapped to
>
> ```
> - author:
>   - family: Fintel
>     non-dropping-particle: von
>     given: Kai
> ```
>
> I also reported this bug at 
> https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-citeproc/issues/95.
>
>
> On Thursday, 11 December 2014 18:33:14 UTC, Thomas Hodgson wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure whether this is strictly speaking a Pandoc question (rather 
>> than citeproc-hs?), but it's a question that arose when using Pandoc so 
>> I'll ask it anyway.
>>
>> Some surnames of the form 'von X' should be sorted with X rather than 'v' 
>> (see e.g. http://kaivonfintel.org/von/). This is easy enough with 
>> biblatex because one can add a 'Sortkey' field. Here's an example record:
>>
>> ```
>> @article{vonFintelGillies2008,
>> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
>> Doi = {10.1215/00318108-2007-025},
>> Journaltitle = {The Philosophical Review},
>> Number = {1},
>> Pages = {77--98},
>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
>> Title = {{CIA} Leaks},
>> Volume = {117},
>> Year = {2008}
>> }
>> ```
>>
>> Using Pandoc with a CSL file this entry would be sorted with 'v' though. 
>> Is there something I can add to my .bib file, or some setting I can use to 
>> make it sort using 'Sortkey'? Or some other way to get the effect I want?
>>
>>
>>

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Re: 'von' names, sort order, biblatex, and citeproc-hs

[Paulo Ney de Souza]

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Well, well, well ... I went to the web-page mentioned --
http://kaivonfintel.org/von/ and the only thing that can be inferred from
that, is that -- even being a linguist -- he does not know how to sort his
own name!

Maybe no one has ever mentioned it to him, but the "RAK-WB
<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regeln_f%C3%BCr_die_alphabetische_Katalogisierung>"
("Regeln für die Alphabetische Katalogisierung - Wissenschaftliche
Bibliotheken") says very clearly that names are alphabetized by rules
dictated by the LAST nationality of the person. So in Germany that would be
last name "Fintel" alphabetized by "F" in the US the rules are slightly
different and the last name is "von Fintel" alphabetized by "v".

Paulo Ney de Souza




On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Thomas Hodgson <thomas.hodgson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> I'm not sure whether this is strictly speaking a Pandoc question (rather
> than citeproc-hs?), but it's a question that arose when using Pandoc so
> I'll ask it anyway.
>
> Some surnames of the form 'von X' should be sorted with X rather than 'v'
> (see e.g. http://kaivonfintel.org/von/). This is easy enough with
> biblatex because one can add a 'Sortkey' field. Here's an example record:
>
> ```
> @article{vonFintelGillies2008,
> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
> Doi = {10.1215/00318108-2007-025},
> Journaltitle = {The Philosophical Review},
> Number = {1},
> Pages = {77--98},
> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
> Title = {{CIA} Leaks},
> Volume = {117},
> Year = {2008}
> }
> ```
>
> Using Pandoc with a CSL file this entry would be sorted with 'v' though.
> Is there something I can add to my .bib file, or some setting I can use to
> make it sort using 'Sortkey'? Or some other way to get the effect I want?
>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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Re: 'von' names, sort order, biblatex, and citeproc-hs

[Thomas Hodgson]

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Thanks, that's very helpful. Now I know what controls it I will look at 
some CSL files that do what I want.

For some reason adding `useprefix = {true}` to the individual records 
doesn't work for me with biblatex-chicago and biber, but passing an option 
to the package as `useprefix=true` does. The only issue with that is that 
now the 'von' is capitalised in the reference list unless I protect it with 
braces. I'm not sure whether that's right or not in general. (Kai von 
Fintel doesn't in his own work, but that's not the main issue here.)

On Friday, 12 December 2014 11:06:08 UTC, nickba...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org wrote:
>
> Two afterthoughts:
>
> 1. Of course you could edit any CSL style to use 
> `demote-non-dropping-particle="sort-only"`.
>
> 2. Even only
>
> ```
> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai},
> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
> ```
>
> or
>
> ```
> Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
> ```
>
> would give pandoc-citeproc a chance to correctly identify "von" as a 
> non-dropping particle, by *comparing* author and sortkey. For the OP's 
> problem, I'd still recommend using `useprefix`, though.
>
> See also my post “On name parsing” in 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!topic/pandoc-discuss/-SajbqoPX8k[1-25-false]. 
> My proposal then, however, was to compare author and sortkey in case a 
> dropping particle had already been identified but what would else be parsed 
> as last name might still start with a non-dropping particle.
>
>
> On Friday, 12 December 2014 10:50:48 UTC, nickba...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org wrote:
>>
>> This should be possible if you use a CSL style containing 
>> `demote-non-dropping-particle="sort-only"` (for details see 
>> http://citationstyles.org/downloads/specification.html#name-particles).
>>
>> There are many such styles; the one I used for testing is 
>> `taylor-and-francis-chicago-f.csl`.
>>
>> Interestingly, many popular styles such as `chicago-author-date.csl` or 
>> `apa.csl` contain `demote-non-dropping-particle="never"` instead, which 
>> would not give the effect you want. I am not sure why this is, maybe it's 
>> an oversight, but to shed light on this one would have to consult the style 
>> manuals.
>>
>> Now, with a CSL YAML database this works well:
>>
>> ```
>> pandoc -s -F pandoc-citeproc -t markdown-citations << EOT
>>
>> @fi @fa @fu
>>
>> ---
>> csl: taylor-and-francis-chicago-f.csl
>> references:
>> - author:
>>   - family: Fintel
>>     non-dropping-particle: von
>>     given: Kai
>>   id: fi
>>   issued:
>>     date-parts:
>>     - - 2008
>>   title: Title
>>   type: article-journal
>> - author:
>>   - family: Fahrenheit
>>     given: Gabriel Daniel
>>   id: fa
>>   issued:
>>     date-parts:
>>     - - 2008
>>   title: Title
>>   type: article-journal
>> - author:
>>   - family: Fulton
>>     given: Robert
>>   id: fu
>>   issued:
>>     date-parts:
>>     - - 2008
>>   title: Title
>>   type: article-journal
>> ...
>> EOT
>> ```
>>
>> gives
>>
>> ```
>> Fahrenheit, G.D. 2008. Title.
>>
>> von Fintel, K. 2008. Title.
>>
>> Fulton, R. 2008. Title.
>> ```
>>
>> Next, the preferred biblatex way of specifying your author would be 
>>
>> ```
>> Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>> useprefix = {true},
>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
>> ```
>>
>> rather than
>>
>> ```
>> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai},
>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
>> ```
>>
>> Only the first version gives pandoc-citeproc a chance to parse the name, 
>> including the prefix, correctly.
>>
>> (From the biblatex manual: “useprefix=true, false — default: false — 
>> Whether the name prefix (von, van, of, da, de, della, etc.) is considered 
>> when printing the last name in citations. This also affects the sorting and 
>> formatting of the bibliography as well as the generation of certain types 
>> of labels. If this option is enabled, Biblatex always precedes the last 
>> name with the prefix. For example, Ludwig van Beethoven would be cited as 
>> “Beethoven” and alphabetized as “Beethoven, Ludwig van” by default. If this 
>> option is enabled, he is cited as “van Beethoven” and alphabetized as “Van 
>> Beethoven, Ludwig” instead. With Biber, this option is also settable on a 
>> per-type basis.”)
>>
>>
>> However, there seems to be a bug in pandoc-citeproc:
>>
>> With the following bibfile.bib
>>
>> ```
>> @article{ut,
>>     Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>>     useprefix = {true},
>>     Title = {Biblatex useprefix is true},
>>     Year = {2008},
>> }
>>
>> @article{uf,
>>     Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>>     useprefix = {false},
>>     Title = {Biblatex useprefix is false = default},
>>     Year = {2008},
>> }
>> ```
>>
>> the output of `pandoc-citeproc -y bibfile.bib` is
>>
>> ```
>> ---
>> references:
>> - author:
>>   - family: Fintel
>>     dropping-particle: von
>>     given: Kai
>>   id: ut
>>   issued:
>>     date-parts:
>>     - - 2008
>>   title: Biblatex useprefix is true
>>   type: article-journal
>> - author:
>>   - family: Fintel
>>     dropping-particle: von
>>     given: Kai
>>   id: uf
>>   issued:
>>     date-parts:
>>     - - 2008
>>   title: Biblatex useprefix is false = default
>>   type: article-journal
>> ...
>> ```
>>
>> The first author, in the entry with `useprefix = {true}`, should however 
>> be mapped to
>>
>> ```
>> - author:
>>   - family: Fintel
>>     non-dropping-particle: von
>>     given: Kai
>> ```
>>
>> I also reported this bug at 
>> https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-citeproc/issues/95.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, 11 December 2014 18:33:14 UTC, Thomas Hodgson wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not sure whether this is strictly speaking a Pandoc question (rather 
>>> than citeproc-hs?), but it's a question that arose when using Pandoc so 
>>> I'll ask it anyway.
>>>
>>> Some surnames of the form 'von X' should be sorted with X rather than 
>>> 'v' (see e.g. http://kaivonfintel.org/von/). This is easy enough with 
>>> biblatex because one can add a 'Sortkey' field. Here's an example record:
>>>
>>> ```
>>> @article{vonFintelGillies2008,
>>> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
>>> Doi = {10.1215/00318108-2007-025},
>>> Journaltitle = {The Philosophical Review},
>>> Number = {1},
>>> Pages = {77--98},
>>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
>>> Title = {{CIA} Leaks},
>>> Volume = {117},
>>> Year = {2008}
>>> }
>>> ```
>>>
>>> Using Pandoc with a CSL file this entry would be sorted with 'v' though. 
>>> Is there something I can add to my .bib file, or some setting I can use to 
>>> make it sort using 'Sortkey'? Or some other way to get the effect I want?
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: 'von' names, sort order, biblatex, and citeproc-hs

[nickbart1980-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w]

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As to `useprefix = {true}` for an individual record – I must have been very 
confused here. This synatx doesn't exist in biblatex, it's `options = 
{useprefix=true}`. And this also works perfectly ok for pandoc-citeproc, no 
bug at all. Sorry.

On Friday, 12 December 2014 14:25:41 UTC, Thomas Hodgson wrote:
>
> Thanks, that's very helpful. Now I know what controls it I will look at 
> some CSL files that do what I want.
>
> For some reason adding `useprefix = {true}` to the individual records 
> doesn't work for me with biblatex-chicago and biber, but passing an option 
> to the package as `useprefix=true` does. The only issue with that is that 
> now the 'von' is capitalised in the reference list unless I protect it with 
> braces. I'm not sure whether that's right or not in general. (Kai von 
> Fintel doesn't in his own work, but that's not the main issue here.)
>
> On Friday, 12 December 2014 11:06:08 UTC, nickba...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org wrote:
>>
>> Two afterthoughts:
>>
>> 1. Of course you could edit any CSL style to use 
>> `demote-non-dropping-particle="sort-only"`.
>>
>> 2. Even only
>>
>> ```
>> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai},
>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
>> ```
>>
>> or
>>
>> ```
>> Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
>> ```
>>
>> would give pandoc-citeproc a chance to correctly identify "von" as a 
>> non-dropping particle, by *comparing* author and sortkey. For the OP's 
>> problem, I'd still recommend using `useprefix`, though.
>>
>> See also my post “On name parsing” in 
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!topic/pandoc-discuss/-SajbqoPX8k[1-25-false]. 
>> My proposal then, however, was to compare author and sortkey in case a 
>> dropping particle had already been identified but what would else be parsed 
>> as last name might still start with a non-dropping particle.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, 12 December 2014 10:50:48 UTC, nickba...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org wrote:
>>>
>>> This should be possible if you use a CSL style containing 
>>> `demote-non-dropping-particle="sort-only"` (for details see 
>>> http://citationstyles.org/downloads/specification.html#name-particles).
>>>
>>> There are many such styles; the one I used for testing is 
>>> `taylor-and-francis-chicago-f.csl`.
>>>
>>> Interestingly, many popular styles such as `chicago-author-date.csl` or 
>>> `apa.csl` contain `demote-non-dropping-particle="never"` instead, which 
>>> would not give the effect you want. I am not sure why this is, maybe it's 
>>> an oversight, but to shed light on this one would have to consult the style 
>>> manuals.
>>>
>>> Now, with a CSL YAML database this works well:
>>>
>>> ```
>>> pandoc -s -F pandoc-citeproc -t markdown-citations << EOT
>>>
>>> @fi @fa @fu
>>>
>>> ---
>>> csl: taylor-and-francis-chicago-f.csl
>>> references:
>>> - author:
>>>   - family: Fintel
>>>     non-dropping-particle: von
>>>     given: Kai
>>>   id: fi
>>>   issued:
>>>     date-parts:
>>>     - - 2008
>>>   title: Title
>>>   type: article-journal
>>> - author:
>>>   - family: Fahrenheit
>>>     given: Gabriel Daniel
>>>   id: fa
>>>   issued:
>>>     date-parts:
>>>     - - 2008
>>>   title: Title
>>>   type: article-journal
>>> - author:
>>>   - family: Fulton
>>>     given: Robert
>>>   id: fu
>>>   issued:
>>>     date-parts:
>>>     - - 2008
>>>   title: Title
>>>   type: article-journal
>>> ...
>>> EOT
>>> ```
>>>
>>> gives
>>>
>>> ```
>>> Fahrenheit, G.D. 2008. Title.
>>>
>>> von Fintel, K. 2008. Title.
>>>
>>> Fulton, R. 2008. Title.
>>> ```
>>>
>>> Next, the preferred biblatex way of specifying your author would be 
>>>
>>> ```
>>> Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>>> useprefix = {true},
>>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
>>> ```
>>>
>>> rather than
>>>
>>> ```
>>> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai},
>>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
>>> ```
>>>
>>> Only the first version gives pandoc-citeproc a chance to parse the name, 
>>> including the prefix, correctly.
>>>
>>> (From the biblatex manual: “useprefix=true, false — default: false — 
>>> Whether the name prefix (von, van, of, da, de, della, etc.) is considered 
>>> when printing the last name in citations. This also affects the sorting and 
>>> formatting of the bibliography as well as the generation of certain types 
>>> of labels. If this option is enabled, Biblatex always precedes the last 
>>> name with the prefix. For example, Ludwig van Beethoven would be cited as 
>>> “Beethoven” and alphabetized as “Beethoven, Ludwig van” by default. If this 
>>> option is enabled, he is cited as “van Beethoven” and alphabetized as “Van 
>>> Beethoven, Ludwig” instead. With Biber, this option is also settable on a 
>>> per-type basis.”)
>>>
>>>
>>> However, there seems to be a bug in pandoc-citeproc:
>>>
>>> With the following bibfile.bib
>>>
>>> ```
>>> @article{ut,
>>>     Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>>>     useprefix = {true},
>>>     Title = {Biblatex useprefix is true},
>>>     Year = {2008},
>>> }
>>>
>>> @article{uf,
>>>     Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>>>     useprefix = {false},
>>>     Title = {Biblatex useprefix is false = default},
>>>     Year = {2008},
>>> }
>>> ```
>>>
>>> the output of `pandoc-citeproc -y bibfile.bib` is
>>>
>>> ```
>>> ---
>>> references:
>>> - author:
>>>   - family: Fintel
>>>     dropping-particle: von
>>>     given: Kai
>>>   id: ut
>>>   issued:
>>>     date-parts:
>>>     - - 2008
>>>   title: Biblatex useprefix is true
>>>   type: article-journal
>>> - author:
>>>   - family: Fintel
>>>     dropping-particle: von
>>>     given: Kai
>>>   id: uf
>>>   issued:
>>>     date-parts:
>>>     - - 2008
>>>   title: Biblatex useprefix is false = default
>>>   type: article-journal
>>> ...
>>> ```
>>>
>>> The first author, in the entry with `useprefix = {true}`, should however 
>>> be mapped to
>>>
>>> ```
>>> - author:
>>>   - family: Fintel
>>>     non-dropping-particle: von
>>>     given: Kai
>>> ```
>>>
>>> I also reported this bug at 
>>> https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-citeproc/issues/95.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 11 December 2014 18:33:14 UTC, Thomas Hodgson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure whether this is strictly speaking a Pandoc question 
>>>> (rather than citeproc-hs?), but it's a question that arose when using 
>>>> Pandoc so I'll ask it anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Some surnames of the form 'von X' should be sorted with X rather than 
>>>> 'v' (see e.g. http://kaivonfintel.org/von/). This is easy enough with 
>>>> biblatex because one can add a 'Sortkey' field. Here's an example record:
>>>>
>>>> ```
>>>> @article{vonFintelGillies2008,
>>>> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
>>>> Doi = {10.1215/00318108-2007-025},
>>>> Journaltitle = {The Philosophical Review},
>>>> Number = {1},
>>>> Pages = {77--98},
>>>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
>>>> Title = {{CIA} Leaks},
>>>> Volume = {117},
>>>> Year = {2008}
>>>> }
>>>> ```
>>>>
>>>> Using Pandoc with a CSL file this entry would be sorted with 'v' 
>>>> though. Is there something I can add to my .bib file, or some setting I can 
>>>> use to make it sort using 'Sortkey'? Or some other way to get the effect I 
>>>> want?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

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Re: 'von' names, sort order, biblatex, and citeproc-hs

[BPJ]

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AFAIK in the German-speaking world a "von" prefix is never capitalized, nor
is it in Scandinavia where some people have such names, or with the native
Scandinavian counterpart "af". I have seen it sometimes in American books
and articles but have then chalked it down to the same kind of
ignorance/indifference which treats Icelandic patronymics as surnames.

fredag 12 december 2014 skrev <nickbart1980-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:

> As to `useprefix = {true}` for an individual record – I must have been
> very confused here. This synatx doesn't exist in biblatex, it's `options =
> {useprefix=true}`. And this also works perfectly ok for pandoc-citeproc, no
> bug at all. Sorry.
>
> On Friday, 12 December 2014 14:25:41 UTC, Thomas Hodgson wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, that's very helpful. Now I know what controls it I will look at
>> some CSL files that do what I want.
>>
>> For some reason adding `useprefix = {true}` to the individual records
>> doesn't work for me with biblatex-chicago and biber, but passing an option
>> to the package as `useprefix=true` does. The only issue with that is that
>> now the 'von' is capitalised in the reference list unless I protect it with
>> braces. I'm not sure whether that's right or not in general. (Kai von
>> Fintel doesn't in his own work, but that's not the main issue here.)
>>
>> On Friday, 12 December 2014 11:06:08 UTC, nickba...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org wrote:
>>>
>>> Two afterthoughts:
>>>
>>> 1. Of course you could edit any CSL style to use
>>> `demote-non-dropping-particle="sort-only"`.
>>>
>>> 2. Even only
>>>
>>> ```
>>> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai},
>>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
>>> ```
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> ```
>>> Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
>>> ```
>>>
>>> would give pandoc-citeproc a chance to correctly identify "von" as a
>>> non-dropping particle, by *comparing* author and sortkey. For the OP's
>>> problem, I'd still recommend using `useprefix`, though.
>>>
>>> See also my post “On name parsing” in https://groups.google.com/
>>> forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!topic/pandoc-discuss/-SajbqoPX8k[1-25-false].
>>> My proposal then, however, was to compare author and sortkey in case a
>>> dropping particle had already been identified but what would else be parsed
>>> as last name might still start with a non-dropping particle.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, 12 December 2014 10:50:48 UTC, nickba...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This should be possible if you use a CSL style containing
>>>> `demote-non-dropping-particle="sort-only"` (for details see
>>>> http://citationstyles.org/downloads/specification.html#name-particles).
>>>>
>>>> There are many such styles; the one I used for testing is
>>>> `taylor-and-francis-chicago-f.csl`.
>>>>
>>>> Interestingly, many popular styles such as `chicago-author-date.csl` or
>>>> `apa.csl` contain `demote-non-dropping-particle="never"` instead,
>>>> which would not give the effect you want. I am not sure why this is, maybe
>>>> it's an oversight, but to shed light on this one would have to consult the
>>>> style manuals.
>>>>
>>>> Now, with a CSL YAML database this works well:
>>>>
>>>> ```
>>>> pandoc -s -F pandoc-citeproc -t markdown-citations << EOT
>>>>
>>>> @fi @fa @fu
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> csl: taylor-and-francis-chicago-f.csl
>>>> references:
>>>> - author:
>>>>   - family: Fintel
>>>>     non-dropping-particle: von
>>>>     given: Kai
>>>>   id: fi
>>>>   issued:
>>>>     date-parts:
>>>>     - - 2008
>>>>   title: Title
>>>>   type: article-journal
>>>> - author:
>>>>   - family: Fahrenheit
>>>>     given: Gabriel Daniel
>>>>   id: fa
>>>>   issued:
>>>>     date-parts:
>>>>     - - 2008
>>>>   title: Title
>>>>   type: article-journal
>>>> - author:
>>>>   - family: Fulton
>>>>     given: Robert
>>>>   id: fu
>>>>   issued:
>>>>     date-parts:
>>>>     - - 2008
>>>>   title: Title
>>>>   type: article-journal
>>>> ...
>>>> EOT
>>>> ```
>>>>
>>>> gives
>>>>
>>>> ```
>>>> Fahrenheit, G.D. 2008. Title.
>>>>
>>>> von Fintel, K. 2008. Title.
>>>>
>>>> Fulton, R. 2008. Title.
>>>> ```
>>>>
>>>> Next, the preferred biblatex way of specifying your author would be
>>>>
>>>> ```
>>>> Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>>>> useprefix = {true},
>>>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
>>>> ```
>>>>
>>>> rather than
>>>>
>>>> ```
>>>> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai},
>>>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai},
>>>> ```
>>>>
>>>> Only the first version gives pandoc-citeproc a chance to parse the
>>>> name, including the prefix, correctly.
>>>>
>>>> (From the biblatex manual: “useprefix=true, false — default: false —
>>>> Whether the name prefix (von, van, of, da, de, della, etc.) is considered
>>>> when printing the last name in citations. This also affects the sorting and
>>>> formatting of the bibliography as well as the generation of certain types
>>>> of labels. If this option is enabled, Biblatex always precedes the last
>>>> name with the prefix. For example, Ludwig van Beethoven would be cited as
>>>> “Beethoven” and alphabetized as “Beethoven, Ludwig van” by default. If this
>>>> option is enabled, he is cited as “van Beethoven” and alphabetized as “Van
>>>> Beethoven, Ludwig” instead. With Biber, this option is also settable on a
>>>> per-type basis.”)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> However, there seems to be a bug in pandoc-citeproc:
>>>>
>>>> With the following bibfile.bib
>>>>
>>>> ```
>>>> @article{ut,
>>>>     Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>>>>     useprefix = {true},
>>>>     Title = {Biblatex useprefix is true},
>>>>     Year = {2008},
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> @article{uf,
>>>>     Author = {von Fintel, Kai},
>>>>     useprefix = {false},
>>>>     Title = {Biblatex useprefix is false = default},
>>>>     Year = {2008},
>>>> }
>>>> ```
>>>>
>>>> the output of `pandoc-citeproc -y bibfile.bib` is
>>>>
>>>> ```
>>>> ---
>>>> references:
>>>> - author:
>>>>   - family: Fintel
>>>>     dropping-particle: von
>>>>     given: Kai
>>>>   id: ut
>>>>   issued:
>>>>     date-parts:
>>>>     - - 2008
>>>>   title: Biblatex useprefix is true
>>>>   type: article-journal
>>>> - author:
>>>>   - family: Fintel
>>>>     dropping-particle: von
>>>>     given: Kai
>>>>   id: uf
>>>>   issued:
>>>>     date-parts:
>>>>     - - 2008
>>>>   title: Biblatex useprefix is false = default
>>>>   type: article-journal
>>>> ...
>>>> ```
>>>>
>>>> The first author, in the entry with `useprefix = {true}`, should
>>>> however be mapped to
>>>>
>>>> ```
>>>> - author:
>>>>   - family: Fintel
>>>>     non-dropping-particle: von
>>>>     given: Kai
>>>> ```
>>>>
>>>> I also reported this bug at https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-
>>>> citeproc/issues/95.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, 11 December 2014 18:33:14 UTC, Thomas Hodgson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure whether this is strictly speaking a Pandoc question
>>>>> (rather than citeproc-hs?), but it's a question that arose when using
>>>>> Pandoc so I'll ask it anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some surnames of the form 'von X' should be sorted with X rather than
>>>>> 'v' (see e.g. http://kaivonfintel.org/von/). This is easy enough with
>>>>> biblatex because one can add a 'Sortkey' field. Here's an example record:
>>>>>
>>>>> ```
>>>>> @article{vonFintelGillies2008,
>>>>> Author = {{von Fintel}, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
>>>>> Doi = {10.1215/00318108-2007-025},
>>>>> Journaltitle = {The Philosophical Review},
>>>>> Number = {1},
>>>>> Pages = {77--98},
>>>>> Sortkey = {Fintel, Kai and Gillies, Anthony S.},
>>>>> Title = {{CIA} Leaks},
>>>>> Volume = {117},
>>>>> Year = {2008}
>>>>> }
>>>>> ```
>>>>>
>>>>> Using Pandoc with a CSL file this entry would be sorted with 'v'
>>>>> though. Is there something I can add to my .bib file, or some setting I can
>>>>> use to make it sort using 'Sortkey'? Or some other way to get the effect I
>>>>> want?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
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Re: 'von' names, sort order, biblatex, and citeproc-hs

[Joost Kremers]

On Sat, Dec 13 2014, BPJ <bpj-J3H7GcXPSITLoDKTGw+V6w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> AFAIK in the German-speaking world a "von" prefix is never capitalized, nor
> is it in Scandinavia where some people have such names, or with the native
> Scandinavian counterpart "af". I have seen it sometimes in American books
> and articles but have then chalked it down to the same kind of
> ignorance/indifference which treats Icelandic patronymics as surnames.

I would assume ignorance, and I believe that's quite understandable. One
cannot know all the intricacies of nomenclature and spelling rules for
names in every language under the sun. In German, "von" is not
capitalized, but in Dutch, the equivalent "van" (and a number of similar
particles) is capitalized when it's the first part of the name (i.e.,
when only the last name is given, or the name is given in the order last
name -- first name). That is, in a bibliography, the correct spelling
would be:

,----
| Van Riemsdijk, Henk (1999). ...
`----

but:

,----
| Corver, Norbert and Henk van Riemsdijk (1994). ...
`----

Not something I'd expect not-Dutch speakers to know (or even care
about). I suspect most Dutch speaker don't even know...

Personally, I'd even sort "Van Riemsdijk" under V, although in Dutch it
would normally be sorted under R. Scientific literature has an
international audience and I wouldn't expect every reader to know that
"Van Riemsdijk" should be sought under R.

Just my €0.02, though.

-- 
Joost Kremers
Life has its moments

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Re: 'von' names, sort order, biblatex, and citeproc-hs

[Mark Szepieniec]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3069 bytes --]

To reinforce your point of "one cannot know all the intricacies", in the
Dutch-speaking part of Belgium, the "Van XXX" names _are_ sorted under V :-)

On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Joost Kremers <joostkremers-97jfqw80gc6171pxa8y+qA@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 13 2014, BPJ <bpj-J3H7GcXPSITLoDKTGw+V6w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > AFAIK in the German-speaking world a "von" prefix is never capitalized,
> nor
> > is it in Scandinavia where some people have such names, or with the
> native
> > Scandinavian counterpart "af". I have seen it sometimes in American books
> > and articles but have then chalked it down to the same kind of
> > ignorance/indifference which treats Icelandic patronymics as surnames.
>
> I would assume ignorance, and I believe that's quite understandable. One
> cannot know all the intricacies of nomenclature and spelling rules for
> names in every language under the sun. In German, "von" is not
> capitalized, but in Dutch, the equivalent "van" (and a number of similar
> particles) is capitalized when it's the first part of the name (i.e.,
> when only the last name is given, or the name is given in the order last
> name -- first name). That is, in a bibliography, the correct spelling
> would be:
>
> ,----
> | Van Riemsdijk, Henk (1999). ...
> `----
>
> but:
>
> ,----
> | Corver, Norbert and Henk van Riemsdijk (1994). ...
> `----
>
> Not something I'd expect not-Dutch speakers to know (or even care
> about). I suspect most Dutch speaker don't even know...
>
> Personally, I'd even sort "Van Riemsdijk" under V, although in Dutch it
> would normally be sorted under R. Scientific literature has an
> international audience and I wouldn't expect every reader to know that
> "Van Riemsdijk" should be sought under R.
>
> Just my €0.02, though.
>
> --
> Joost Kremers
> Life has its moments
>
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