For 13 years, John did not feel the need for a pandoc logo, and so it probably did not need one. However, as pandoc reputation increases, its visibility begins to matter. Whatever we do, pandoc **will have** a logo: * Carsten used the reversed pilcrow for its plugin * Google and Framasoft (a french association promoting open-source) link pandoc to one of the proposed logo (see attachments). * The official website uses the single word "Pandoc" where we can expect a logo * Some of us will use "custom" representation to talk about pandoc in slideshows, books, etc. What I see here is that pandoc existence is spreading around the world, but its identity is not very clear. So John can choose: * to have a fuzzy identity, letting anyone represent pandoc as he wants (but this as to be stated somewhere) and close this discussion; * to settle on a logo and ask everyone to use it where it needs to be. If the choice is to do a dedicated logo, maybe we should focus on use cases (favicon, representation in a diagram, communication, and visibility on the Web, etc.). Either way, it's up to John to define the specs. Just one more thought. As we stick to vectorized logo (which I think should be one of the specs), this will make it doable in LaTeX (with tikz or something like this) and very suitable for HTML/CSS output ( https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/HTML/Multimedia_and_embedding/Adding_vector_graphics_to_the_Web#How_to_include_SVG_code_inside_your_HTML ). Finally, I don't think that having a professionally designed logo is a requirement. Many open-source projects, developed by volunteers, have a logo designed by an amateur, which doesn't make it less recognizable/useful: https://www.archlinux.org/news/logo-contest-results-and-winner/ http://ctan.math.washington.edu/tex-archive/usergrps/uktug/baskervi/8_1/ltx-logo.tex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tux_(mascot) https://www.gnu.org/graphics/heckert_gnu.html The Ubuntu circle of friends (if I remember well, but do not find a source). Kind, Alexis. Le dim. 19 janv. 2020 à 09:09, 藤原由来 a écrit : > I have started this thread but left it for a while. Sorry for my absence > and pending work. > > I have two opinions. > > ## As graphic identity > > Again, I wrote why I need a Pandoc logo in the first post: > > > The logo strongly represent the existence of Pandoc and briefly show > what it is. > > This will be useful when we make a presentation. > > To expand Pandoc to the world, the logo will be important. > > For example, the text 'Pandoc' is perfect as symbolic (in string) identity > because it is sufficiently identical from other products and says what it > is. (pan-document -> universal document converter) > > After many proposals (thanks a lot!), I confirmed the text `Pandoc` is > still strong as a pseudo-logo symbol in this point. The (reverse) pilcrow > symbol might weaken the identity because it could cause missread: "I'm a > paragraph." > > I think it is difficult to conclude this graphic identity issue. I will > propose another point: practical use. > > ## In practical use > > I haven't written enough why I need in practical point. I sometimes feel > inconvenient and need a graphic Pandoc logo when: > > - finding our user's guide page from many browser tabs (currently its > favicon is the browser default) > - making a diagram to explain my publishing workflow: pandoc -> (rst) -> > Sphinx -> Web site > - writing a book that explains Pandoc (I want to use official logo in its > cover page!) > > 'To expand Pandoc to the world' in the first quote implies this usage > above actually but I have not explained much. > > Then in practical point the *official* logo spec will be: > > 1. can be square and make favicon for pandoc.org (at least 32×32 px for > modern browsers) > 2. can be downloaded in pdf (or svg) and png (or jpg) for general graphic > design and diagrams > 3. [optional] fit for the current website: pandoc.org (not need to an > image) > 4. seem to be graphically identical in the logo of spec 1-3 > > For example the rasterize version of the sans serif text 'P' in 32×32 > satisfies the spec 1. pdf/png version of the current top page header text > 'Pandoc' satisfies the spec 2. Spec 3 is not necessary. Spec 4 is obviously > satisfied. This will be minimal set of logo that satisfies the spec. > > Alexis' one as jgm mentioned will be satisfies the spec 1-4 and we can > filter other existing ideas with the spec. > > Thank you for discussion and give cool ideas. > > Regards, > Yuki F > > > 2020年1月19日(日) 8:53 John MacFarlane : > >> >> I'm really not sure what to say: people here seem to want >> a logo much more than I do, so I feel a lot of pressure. >> But since I don't think we NEED a logo, I'm not going to go >> to go for one unless it really looks right. >> >> I actually think this one by Alexis is pretty nice, though >> now it has been accused of amateurism. Well, I'm not a graphic >> designer, so I wouldn't know. But I like it better than the other >> proposals of reverse pilcrows in boxes. >> >> I do think that it makes sense, if we have a logo, to have >> the canonical version be a particular vector image, and not >> just, say, a reverse pilcrow typeset any old way. That's not a >> logo, it's just a symbol. >> >> >> Alexis BRENON writes: >> >> > I agree that it doesn't have to be a real/specific font. >> > In the beginning, the idea was to be able to insert the logo without >> > relying on a "premade" image. >> > But as we can see, using the chosen pilcrow as a letter inside a word >> > doesn't feel well. >> > Moreover, as it is a manually reversed pilcrow, it can't be easily >> added to >> > all formats. >> > In my opinion, designing a "pictural" logo would let us more room to >> make a >> > good one, and would better fit the use cases (like the one showcased by >> > @allefeld). >> > >> > From this idea, I made a variant of the Vollkorn pilcrow taking some >> ideas >> > from the whole conversation. >> > John seems to like to see the "pi" letter as well as a "D", and most of >> us >> > agree on using something looking like a "P". >> > So I separated the bowl from the vertical lines bringing some >> advantages: >> > * The "pi" and the "D" are more visible (I can still do more works on >> the >> > upper junction to make the "pi" more evident -- adding some curve >> similar >> > to the left one, making some offset overlap to highlight the separation, >> > etc.) >> > * We keep a "P" shape related to the first letter of "Pandoc" >> > * It is not a "simple" pilcrow anymore, so decrease the risk of >> confusion >> > from the users. >> > >> > Using a box around is a good idea making it stands as "I am a logo". >> > However, a simple square or diamond doesn't bring much meaning. >> > I used an ISO A4 page symbol which was often used in the previous logo >> > propositions. >> > One more time, some more work can be done here, like using a >> letter-sized >> > page (which would make it more squarish). >> > >> > [image: logo_512.png] >> > >> > What do you think about this compromised: starting from a well-designed >> > pilcrow and customizing it to make it looks like a logo. >> > >> > Kind. >> > >> > Le mar. 14 janv. 2020 à 21:46, BPJ a écrit : >> > >> >> Does it necessarily have to be a specific font? I doubt people will >> care >> >> about such details as long as the general look is the expected one, the >> >> pilcrow, a box (the idea of a square rotated 45 degrees, i.e. a >> lozenge, >> >> seems a good one to me BTW) and the expected general color in a color >> >> document. OTOH if the font is the "right" one but other details are >> wrong, >> >> like a non-reversed pilcrow, a circle instead of a box or the wrong >> color >> >> the "right" font doesn't help. Most people who aren't font nerds (I >> used >> >> to be one when I was younger actually) won't notice any font >> differences >> >> less gross than filled vs. not filled, w/o a "leg" or sans vs. serif. >> >> >> >> >> >> Den tors 9 jan. 2020 18:52allefeld skrev: >> >> >> >>> I did have the concern expressed above that the reversed Pilcrow >> >>>> in a box e.g. in an editor menu looks like it should create a new >> >>>> paragraph, >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I wouldn't be too concerned about that. The Pilcrow is familiar as an >> >>> end-of-paragraph symbol, but I have never seen an editor that uses it >> to >> >>> stand for "create paragraph". >> >>> >> >>> Apparently there is a Pilcrow button in MS Word, but that stands for >> >>> "show hidden formatting". >> >>> >> >>> For my own package, I think that the documentation >> >>> https://github.com/allefeld/atom-pandoc-pdf#toolbar-buttons >> >>> should make it completely clear. >> >>> >> >>> And once the symbol is used on the Pandoc website, users will >> >>> automatically start associating it with Pandoc. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> and isn't obviously recognizable as a logo. >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> A properly designed logo would certainly be nice. A while ago there >> was a >> >>> comment from a designer on the repo offering to design a logo. I left >> a >> >>> comment, maybe he chimes in. >> >>> >> >>> But I would propose that for the moment we just settle on a font, and >> >>> leave possible further logo design for the future. >> >>> >> >>> And that would mean that you, John, have to decide which font it is >> >>> supposed to be. :) >> >>> >> >>> C >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> >>> "pandoc-discuss" group. >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an >> >>> email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >> >>> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/921cd6a2-2d51-4c82-bf29-97627318519f%40googlegroups.com >> >>> < >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/921cd6a2-2d51-4c82-bf29-97627318519f%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer >> > >> >>> . >> >>> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> >> Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> >> >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/pandoc-discuss/1bKIuyBnWaQ/unsubscribe. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> >> pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> >> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CADAJKhARUsq4GnQAuykH4tXjHAaRe%3DYB2EKEwnshJZ9496K-9Q%40mail.gmail.com >> >> < >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CADAJKhARUsq4GnQAuykH4tXjHAaRe%3DYB2EKEwnshJZ9496K-9Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer >> > >> >> . >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CAJPB9o0-2RT%3DKd733Xj2vqDTgGoozqX%2B7V_SCd%3DLD%3D6EbuGChg%40mail.gmail.com >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/pandoc-discuss/1bKIuyBnWaQ/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/m24kwsxqxy.fsf%40johnmacfarlane.net >> . >> > -- > 藤原 由来 (Yuki Fujiwara) > sky.y.0079-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/pandoc-discuss/1bKIuyBnWaQ/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CAA4xQMmj9pc3RKC473_Hq_%2BgSA6DJNkQS2z%2B%2BOUE6Sp4L6Bv5w%40mail.gmail.com > > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. 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