From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/7016 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Shahbaz Youssefi Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: syntax for generic spans and divs Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:22:15 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20130814174642.GA28736@protagoras.phil.berkeley.edu> <2794BEB7D7348D734B9B2DF5@192.168.1.50> <520BD095.9060902@reagle.org> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013d1b9c01d50d04e3ee1de7 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1376511737 17322 80.91.229.3 (14 Aug 2013 20:22:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 20:22:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Daniel Staal To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBCROTOMZXUKRB6GNV6IAKGQENERKDSQ-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Wed Aug 14 22:22:20 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-la0-f56.google.com ([209.85.215.56]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1V9haD-0006vW-FN for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:22:17 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-la0-f56.google.com with SMTP id ep20sf184238lab.1 for ; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:22:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=N095/bK8HE2xRGA3l+uKd1DCxV6ItceUz/pJrncrOC8=; b=f7QCVmXkipGI7Rh1FvYwsYrsG24Fn9TgoURRWG62aaY2fEEbK8MLc453dtbuTTUt+6 zhqM7wsDNZQdGtud5A+cAgewRgAg5Gu84sueArNF92SNwrgEJlBtiWrgIShUTKkqMx5J Hg/I9d6jeo+RhER2/ncqQq0LAG67cp1K67o48xYAp6yNO37jZmn1wEJeC4k57logVCkB rZv6/MwHF4PNjgxfN2sb+QDcvtP0FoGBhpcZwhLxowBqXyX9zW7FNfqxTzNHGOvcaWOw f5yfh723PFlBj5v84CV/jM8cXAy5Z9ZTIi7kIh3QwZuLguIfxQ0vxpfeJLOd8fNB4W5m 5XiQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=N095/bK8HE2xRGA3l+uKd1DCxV6ItceUz/pJrncrOC8=; b=bsC1A+HfYFy0OxcD1X1ErBFUyKqxiM6GTJ/zGC0MdARCKrFmywsm9h1OjIfyane18/ q2oL0IMQJALqRzM1TRMj/fAjvBese55fgRKwh7QseRZp9R6E6kGRoN5UsF5Zops1KT9o 4aX5MmqnZqpWgNx1RWfXKhFBNDOlZHjOeN+LZx/iuzlLFnljL7HMQ4+VSpun4vAv275m bDTwIfH1Q2CjpoU7G3fl9JeaTsGYm6RFNCKYVPHGLNtf8WX6IfSlJoolB0dhP+g+u187 +k8FwiueM8tDgUaZSKQfLDBUTSgeHW2tVlqe3XMhVBSaicgcWiE6EKGHpg/psvhbDc8w 1alQ== X-Received: by 10.180.95.3 with SMTP id dg3mr199441wib.10.1376511737013; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:22:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 10.180.85.101 with SMTP id g5ls19771wiz.26.gmail; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:22:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.204.72.1 with SMTP id k1mr361310bkj.1.1376511735871; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from mail-lb0-f177.google.com (mail-lb0-f177.google.com [209.85.217.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id rg9si2734151bkb.3.2013.08.14.13.22.15 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of shabbyx-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 209.85.217.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.177; Original-Received: by mail-lb0-f177.google.com with SMTP id n6so50785lbi.36 for ; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:22:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.152.19.70 with SMTP id c6mr10171798lae.25.1376511735221; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.112.204.37 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:22:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <520BD095.9060902-T1oY19WcHSwdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> X-Original-Sender: shabbyx-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of shabbyx-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 209.85.217.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=shabbyx-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) d=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Original-Sender: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.pandoc:7016 Archived-At: --089e013d1b9c01d50d04e3ee1de7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 About divs: the block quote looks pretty nice. Doing it with ! has the benefit of not getting mistaken with the normal quote. About spans: I'm going to actually argue against it. Markdown was made so the plain text would be readable and with minimal markup (hence the name). Adding span means a lot of [extra]{#id .class key="value"} [unnecessary]{#id .class key="value"} [clotter]{#id .class key="value"}. I don't know what is pandoc's strategy. If it wants to become another LaTeX, then adding all these formatting may be fine. However, if it wants to stay along the same idea as markdown, probably it's best to not go overboard with such features. As an alternative, I'd like to suggest some improvements that can immediately take effect, without having to change any document. For example, there could be divs generated on many things, for example tables so they could be better organized. A syntax like :this: could be used for span and generally the HTML could be generated with many more extra elements for better customizablility. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Joseph Reagle wrote: > On 08/14/2013 02:31 PM, Daniel Staal wrote: > >> If I have to pick one, I'd pick blockquote. It's fairly easy to read, >> and a decent text editor can mark up large stretches of text with it >> fairly quickly. (It also allows 'divs in divs', at least in theory, >> which might be useful.) >> > > As most editors are not quite decent, I would hesitate to trust many of > them with wrapping the lines nicely, particularly in nested cases. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "pandoc-discuss" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com > . > To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss@googlegroups.**com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/** > msgid/pandoc-discuss/520BD095.**9060902%40reagle.org > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CALeOzZ8%2BNZTr4BdLjuachvie24wkpDyfAWYazUy5%3DpZTR7Y5rg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --089e013d1b9c01d50d04e3ee1de7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
About divs: the block quote looks pretty nice. D= oing it with ! has the benefit of not getting mistaken with the normal quot= e.

About spans: I'm going to actually argue against it. Ma= rkdown was made so the plain text would be readable and with minimal markup= (hence the name). Adding span means a lot of [extra]{#id .class key=3D&quo= t;value"} [unnecessary]{#id .class key=3D"value"} [clotter]{= #id .class key=3D"value"}. I don't know what is pandoc's = strategy. If it wants to become another LaTeX, then adding all these format= ting may be fine. However, if it wants to stay along the same idea as markd= own, probably it's best to not go overboard with such features.

As an alternative, I'd like to suggest some improvements that= can immediately take effect, without having to change any document. For ex= ample, there could be divs generated on many things, for example tables so = they could be better organized. A syntax like :this: could be used for span= and generally the HTML could be generated with many more extra elements fo= r better customizablility.


On Wed,= Aug 14, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Joseph Reagle <joseph.2011-T1oY19WcHSwdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org&g= t; wrote:
On 08/14/2013 02:31 PM, Da= niel Staal wrote:
If I have to pick one, I'd pick blockquote. =A0It's fairly easy to = read,
and a decent text editor can mark up large stretches of text with it
fairly quickly. =A0(It also allows 'divs in divs', at least in theo= ry,
which might be useful.)

As most editors are not quite decent, I would hesitate to trust many of the= m with wrapping the lines nicely, particularly in nested cases.


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