From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/18297 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Sebastian Karcher Newsgroups: gmane.text.xml.xbiblio.devel,gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: Problem with "a.k.a." abbreviation in citeproc titles Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:19:58 -0400 Message-ID: References: <5ae63233-a3d4-79c7-ba13-6ffa62a99d0b@reagle.org> <20171012145527.GA39195@Johns-MacBook-Pro.local> Reply-To: development discussion for xbiblio NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3320260838611329528==" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1507821614 4344 195.159.176.226 (12 Oct 2017 15:20:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 15:20:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To: development discussion for xbiblio Original-X-From: xbiblio-devel-bounces-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 17:20:05 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtxxd-xbiblio-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.sourceforge.net ([216.34.181.88]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e2fHD-0007zQ-SW for gtxxd-xbiblio-devel@m.gmane.org; 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Thu, 12 Oct 2017 08:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.157.24.116 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 08:19:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20171012145527.GA39195-9Rnp8PDaXcadBw3G0RLmbRFnWt+6NQIA@public.gmane.org> X-Headers-End: 1e2fHI-0007mp-Bl X-BeenThere: xbiblio-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: development discussion for xbiblio List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: xbiblio-devel-bounces-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.xml.xbiblio.devel:7478 gmane.text.pandoc:18297 Archived-At: --===============3320260838611329528== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c03b428c2bc9f055b5b127b" --94eb2c03b428c2bc9f055b5b127b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John's interpretation of the specification looks clearly correct to me, i.e. pandoc-citeproc is behaving according to the specification. citeproc-js (i.e. Zotero, Mendeley, etc.) actually keeps a.k.a in lowercase, though, when title casing, i.e. goes beyond/against (depending on your view) the spec here -- it'd be great if Frank could point to the exact test or rule he uses and we could consider that for the next iteration of the specifications. It may just be what John suggests, but I'd want to see if it captures additional conditions/cases. (Joseph -- you're aware of the a.k.a. wrapper you can use to disable title-casing? I'm pretty sure that works in pandoc) On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 10:55 AM, John MacFarlane wrote: > Pandoc follows the CSL docs: > > "Title case conversion (with text-case set to =E2=80=9Ctitle=E2=80=9D) fo= r English-language >> items is performed by: >> >> For uppercase strings, the first character of each word remains >> capitalized. >> All other letters are lowercased. >> For lower or mixed case strings, the first character of each lowercase >> word >> is capitalized. The case of words in mixed or uppercase stays the same. >> In both cases, stop words are lowercased, unless they are the first or >> last >> word in the string, or follow a colon. The stop words are =E2=80=9Ca=E2= =80=9D, =E2=80=9Can=E2=80=9D, >> =E2=80=9Cand=E2=80=9D, >> =E2=80=9Cas=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cat=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cbut=E2=80=9D, =E2= =80=9Cby=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cdown=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cfor=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C= from=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cin=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cinto=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cnor= =E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cof=E2=80=9D, >> =E2=80=9Con=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Conto=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cor=E2=80=9D, =E2= =80=9Cover=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cso=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cthe=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C= till=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cto=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cup=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cvia=E2= =80=9D, >> =E2=80=9Cwith=E2=80=9D, >> and =E2=80=9Cyet=E2=80=9D. >> > > As far as I can see, this says that "a.k.a." should be > capitalized (even though obviously that's not a good > outcome). > > It seems to me that a good rule would be that any word > containing an internal period should have its case left > alone, but it would be good to get feedback from the > CSL/Zotero side. > > +++ Joseph Reagle [Oct 12 17 10:00 ]: > >> I'm not sure if the problem is my data, citeproc, or the CSL. The proble= m >> is the awkward casing of "A.k.a." when `--style-csl >> chicago-fullnote-bibliography.csl`: >> >> Paul Buchheit, =E2=80=9CApplied Philosophy, A.k.a. =E2=80=98Hacking=E2= =80=99,=E2=80=9D Web log message, >> (October 13, 2009), http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.c >> om/2009/10/applied-philosophy-aka-hacking.html.=E2=86=A9 >> >> >> My data: >> >> --- >> - id: Buchheit2009apk >> type: post-weblog >> genre: Web log message >> abstract: "Developer of Gmail discusses hacking of systems" >> author: >> - family: "Buchheit" >> given: "Paul" >> custom2: "lh.mm" >> issued: >> year: 2009 >> month: 10 >> day: 13 >> title: "Applied philosophy, a.k.a. \'hacking\'" >> URL: "http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2009/10/applied-philosophy >> -aka-hacking.html" >> accessed: >> year: 2015 >> month: 07 >> day: 23 >> ... >> >> Should I be somehow escaping punctuated initialisms? >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "pandoc-discuss" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ms >> gid/pandoc-discuss/5ae63233-a3d4-79c7-ba13-6ffa62a99d0b%40reagle.org. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > xbiblio-devel mailing list > xbiblio-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > --=20 Sebastian Karcher, PhD www.sebastiankarcher.com --94eb2c03b428c2bc9f055b5b127b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
John's interpretation of the specification looks = clearly correct to me, i.e. pandoc-citeproc is behaving according to the sp= ecification. citeproc-js (i.e. Zotero, Mendeley, etc.) actually keeps a.k.a= in lowercase, though, when title casing, i.e. goes beyond/against (dependi= ng on your view) the spec here -- it'd be great if Frank could point to= the exact test or rule he uses and we could consider that for the next ite= ration of the specifications. It may just be what John suggests, but I'= d want to see if it captures additional conditions/cases.

(Jo= seph -- you're aware of the <span class=3D"nocase">a.k.= a.</span> wrapper you can use to disable title-casing? I'm pretty= sure that works in pandoc)


On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 10:55 AM, John MacFarlane <j= gm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Pandoc follows the CSL docs:

"Title case conversion (with text-case set to =E2=80=9Ctitle=E2=80=9D)= for English-language
items is performed by:

For uppercase strings, the first character of each word remains capitalized= .
All other letters are lowercased.
For lower or mixed case strings, the first character of each lowercase word=
is capitalized. The case of words in mixed or uppercase stays the same.
In both cases, stop words are lowercased, unless they are the first or last=
word in the string, or follow a colon. The stop words are =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80= =9D, =E2=80=9Can=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cand=E2=80=9D,
=E2=80=9Cas=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cat=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cbut=E2=80=9D, =E2=80= =9Cby=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cdown=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cfor=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cfro= m=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cin=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cinto=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cnor=E2= =80=9D, =E2=80=9Cof=E2=80=9D,
=E2=80=9Con=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Conto=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cor=E2=80=9D, =E2=80= =9Cover=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cso=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cthe=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Ctil= l=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cto=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cup=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cvia=E2=80= =9D, =E2=80=9Cwith=E2=80=9D,
and =E2=80=9Cyet=E2=80=9D.

As far as I can see, this says that "a.k.a." should be
capitalized (even though obviously that's not a good
outcome).

It seems to me that a good rule would be that any word
containing an internal period should have its case left
alone, but it would be good to get feedback from the
CSL/Zotero side.

+++ Joseph Reagle [Oct 12 17 10:00 ]:
I'm not sure if the problem is my data, citeproc, or the CSL. The probl= em is the awkward casing of "A.k.a." when `--style-csl chicago-fu= llnote-bibliography.csl`:

Paul Buchheit, =E2=80=9CApplied Philosophy, A.k.a. =E2=80=98Hacking=E2=80= =99,=E2=80=9D Web log message, (October 13, 2009), http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2009/10/a= pplied-philosophy-aka-hacking.html.=E2=86=A9


My data:

---
- id: Buchheit2009apk
=C2=A0type: post-weblog
=C2=A0genre: Web log message
=C2=A0abstract: "Developer of Gmail discusses hacking of systems"=
=C2=A0author:
=C2=A0- family: "Buchheit"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0given: "Paul"
=C2=A0custom2: "lh.mm"
=C2=A0issued:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0year: 2009
=C2=A0 =C2=A0month: 10
=C2=A0 =C2=A0day: 13
=C2=A0title: "Applied philosophy, a.k.a. \'hacking\'"
=C2=A0URL: "http://= paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2009/10/applied-philosophy-aka-hacking.= html"
=C2=A0accessed:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0year: 2015
=C2=A0 =C2=A0month: 07
=C2=A0 =C2=A0day: 23
...

Should I be somehow escaping punctuated initialisms?

--
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--
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www.sebastiankarche= r.com
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