From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/23449 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Conrad Cunningham Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: Accessibility of Generated Docx Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 13:53:39 -0500 Message-ID: References: <677959fb-29b8-4eaa-837f-c53e5ea5ab51@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6C9A5B05-FA6D-4169-8744-D54538C51022 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="186071"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBDYNFHPIXQGRBNWASTWAKGQERSYR2VA-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Fri Sep 20 20:53:46 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-yb1-f189.google.com ([209.85.219.189]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iBO2K-000mEO-VR for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org; 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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::32e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g203si250508ywc.5.2019.09.20.11.53.42 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of hcc.olemiss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::32e as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::32e; Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id b2so7028932otq.10 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:53:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1f0f:: with SMTP id u15mr13052616otg.34.1569005621346; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.13] ([97.114.55.148]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f106sm833424otf.17.2019.09.20.11.53.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:53:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16G102) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: hcc.olemiss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=VyL386LZ; spf=pass (google.com: domain of hcc.olemiss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::32e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hcc.olemiss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.pandoc:23449 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail-6C9A5B05-FA6D-4169-8744-D54538C51022 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks.=20 It is useful that Pandoc=E2=80=99s docx writer generates files in compatibi= lity mode and that the generated documents are accessible.=20 Given my institution=E2=80=99s push to make all public documents accessible= , I am looking at convenient (automatable) ways to get my Pandoc-flavored c= ourse documents into accessible PDFs and other accessible formats. Unfortun= ately, mLaTeX-to-PDF support for PDF/UA seems =E2=80=9Cnot ready for prime = time=E2=80=9D.=20 > On Sep 13, 2019, at 3:00 PM, BP Jonsson wrote: >=20 > I believe compatibility mode is helpful also when opening docx files in L= ibreOffice. At least even quite large files produced by Pandoc open much fa= ster than some DOCX files people send me. >=20 >=20 > Den fre 13 sep. 2019 19:31John MacFarlane skrev: >>=20 >> We use compatibility mode so that the docx pandoc produces >> will be readable by the widest variety of Word versions (even >> quite old ones). >>=20 >> This isn't itself an issue with accessibility; it's just an >> issue with the Mac's checker I guess, and I don't think we should >> modify pandoc just to work around that. >>=20 >> We could change pandoc to avoid compatibility mode, but that >> would mean our docxs can't be read by older Word versions. >> At some point it may be worth having this conversation. >>=20 >> In principle we could have a flag to generate either >> compatibility mode or not, but that adds a lot of complexity >> for little gain. >>=20 >> > by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warning= s=20 >> > associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic= . >>=20 >> The code coloring is affected by the --highlight-style option. We >> provide several styles out of the box, including a monochrome >> style which is very high contrast. You can also create and use >> your own style. See the docs. >>=20 >>=20 >> Conrad Cunningham writes: >>=20 >> > I use pandoc to convert Pandoc-flavored Markdown documents to HTML=20 >> > (primarily), Word docx, PDF (via LaTeX), etc. I am currently using pan= doc=20 >> > 2.7.3. Microsoft Word for Mac 16.16.14, and MacTeX 2019 on MacOS 10.14= .6=20 >> > (Mojave). >> > >> > According to the tests I have run using the WebAIM WAVE tool, the=20 >> > accessibility of the generated HTML is reasonable. (I need to give som= e=20 >> > attention to places in the Markdown input where I use tables and alt t= ext.) >> > >> > For the generated docx, I am using Word for Mac's builtin accessibilit= y=20 >> > checker. I found that the generated docx is in compatibility mode. Wor= d for=20 >> > Mac's accessibility checker cannot process that kind of file. If I loa= d the=20 >> > file into Word and then save as a normal docx, the checker will run. >> > >> > Is there a less inconvenient way to get the generated output into the= =20 >> > normal docx mode? I would like to get the final output by running a sh= ell=20 >> > script on the Markdown input. >> > >> > The issues I have found so far in my limited tests are warnings about= =20 >> > insufficient color contrasts and sequences of blank characters. Some o= f=20 >> > these (e.g., colors in section headers and hyperlinks) seem to be fixa= ble=20 >> > by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warning= s=20 >> > associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic= . >> > >> > --=20 >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "pandoc-discuss" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/m= sgid/pandoc-discuss/677959fb-29b8-4eaa-837f-c53e5ea5ab51%40googlegroups.com= . >>=20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "pandoc-discuss" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg= id/pandoc-discuss/yh480k1rwk6r2b.fsf%40johnmacfarlane.net. >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Go= ogle Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/p= andoc-discuss/Y8Q1z1mdgVM/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to pando= c-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgi= d/pandoc-discuss/CAFC_yuTPDWN5yxYnSObFq3kiRp%2BZ%3DY3Kvd%2B67g16qz4D%2BEgeL= A%40mail.gmail.com. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= pandoc-discuss/DF338AD1-4D4E-461B-8A66-F30986A9015E%40gmail.com. --Apple-Mail-6C9A5B05-FA6D-4169-8744-D54538C51022 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks. 

It is useful that Pandoc=E2= =80=99s docx writer generates files in compatibility mode and that the gene= rated documents are accessible. 

Given m= y institution=E2=80=99s push to make all public documents accessible, I am = looking at convenient (automatable) ways to get my Pandoc-flavored course d= ocuments into accessible PDFs and other accessible formats. Unfortunately, = mLaTeX-to-PDF support for PDF/UA seems =E2=80=9Cnot ready for prime time=E2= =80=9D. 

On Sep 13, 2019, at 3:00 PM, B= P Jonsson <bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

I believe compatibility mode is helpful also when opening docx = files in LibreOffice. At least even quite large files produced by Pandoc op= en much faster than some DOCX files people send me.


Den fre 13 sep. 2019 19:31John MacFarlane <jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org> skrev:

We use compatibility mode so that the docx pandoc produces
will be readable by the widest variety of Word versions (even
quite old ones).

This isn't itself an issue with accessibility; it's just an
issue with the Mac's checker I guess, and I don't think we should
modify pandoc just to work around that.

We could change pandoc to avoid compatibility mode, but that
would mean our docxs can't be read by older Word versions.
At some point it may be worth having this conversation.

In principle we could have a flag to generate either
compatibility mode or not, but that adds a lot of complexity
for little gain.

> by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warning= s
> associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic= .

The code coloring is affected by the --highlight-style option. We
provide several styles out of the box, including a monochrome
style which is very high contrast. You can also create and use
your own style. See the docs.


Conrad Cunningham <hcc.olemiss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> I use pandoc to convert Pandoc-flavored Markdown documents to HTML > (primarily), Word docx, PDF (via LaTeX), etc. I am currently using pan= doc
> 2.7.3. Microsoft Word for Mac 16.16.14, and MacTeX 2019 on MacOS 10.14= .6
> (Mojave).
>
> According to the tests I have run using the WebAIM WAVE tool, the
> accessibility of the generated HTML is reasonable. (I need to give som= e
> attention to places in the Markdown input where I use tables and alt t= ext.)
>
> For the generated docx, I am using Word for Mac's builtin accessibilit= y
> checker. I found that the generated docx is in compatibility mode. Wor= d for
> Mac's accessibility checker cannot process that kind of file. If I loa= d the
> file into Word and then save as a normal docx, the checker will run. >
> Is there a less inconvenient way to get the generated output into the =
> normal docx mode? I would like to get the final output by running a sh= ell
> script on the Markdown input.
>
> The issues I have found so far in my limited tests are warnings about =
> insufficient color contrasts and sequences of blank characters. Some o= f
> these (e.g., colors in section headers and hyperlinks) seem to be fixa= ble
> by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warning= s
> associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic= .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups= .google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/677959fb-29b8-4eaa-837f-c53e5ea5ab51%40g= ooglegroups.com.

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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/p= andoc-discuss/yh480k1rwk6r2b.fsf%40johnmacfarlane.net.

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