Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

[Antonio Piccolboni]

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Hi, I am producing pdf and epub from markdown. The bibliography is in 
biblatex. There is a problem with @online items in that the year is 
repeated twice in the output, be it pdf or epub. This is an entry:



@online{scalding,
 title={A DSL that is concise and fun},
 url={https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding},
 year={2021}
}

And this is the result:

“A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” 2021. 2021. 
https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.

I am using the options  --citeproc --bibliography biblio.biblatex 

Other item types look just fine.
Any suggestions? Thanks


Antonio

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Re: Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

[John MacFarlane]

the CSL has

    <layout suffix=".">
      <group delimiter=". ">
        <text macro="contributors"/>
        <text macro="date"/>
        <text macro="title"/>
      </group>
      <text macro="description"/>
      <text macro="secondary-contributors" prefix=". "/>
      <text macro="container-title" prefix=". "/>
      <text macro="container-contributors"/>
      <text macro="edition"/>
      <text macro="locators-chapter"/>
      <text macro="collection-title-journal" prefix=", " suffix=", "/>
      <text macro="locators"/>
      <text macro="collection-title" prefix=". "/>
      <text macro="issue"/>
      <text macro="locators-article"/>
      <text macro="access" prefix=". "/>
    </layout>


and I think the first date is coming from the "date" macro, while the second is coming from "access," which for web_page uses "issued" date.

I don't know if this is a bug in the style or if there's some subtlety that's wrong in pandoc's CSL processing. Maybe a CSL expert can chime in here? Or try using Zotero with chicago-author-date.csl to see what it does.

> On Sep 22, 2022, at 12:35 PM, Antonio Piccolboni <piccolbo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi, I am producing pdf and epub from markdown. The bibliography is in biblatex. There is a problem with @online items in that the year is repeated twice in the output, be it pdf or epub. This is an entry:
> 
> 
> 
> @online{scalding,
>  title={A DSL that is concise and fun},
>  url={https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding},
>  year={2021}
> }
> 
> And this is the result:
> 
> “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” 2021. 2021. https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
> 
> I am using the options  --citeproc --bibliography biblio.biblatex
> 
> Other item types look just fine.
> Any suggestions? Thanks
> 
> 
> Antonio
> 
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Re: Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

[Bastien DUMONT]

This is because the group ending with a dot contains the author-year form of the reference with the year only, whereas the second date is part of the full reference and would contain the full date if it were provided. The solution is to provide more information in order to get an output like this one:

Doe, John. 2021. “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” Twitter. June 8, 2021. https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.

Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 12:49:11PM, John MacFarlane a écrit :
> the CSL has
> 
>     <layout suffix=".">
>       <group delimiter=". ">
>         <text macro="contributors"/>
>         <text macro="date"/>
>         <text macro="title"/>
>       </group>
>       <text macro="description"/>
>       <text macro="secondary-contributors" prefix=". "/>
>       <text macro="container-title" prefix=". "/>
>       <text macro="container-contributors"/>
>       <text macro="edition"/>
>       <text macro="locators-chapter"/>
>       <text macro="collection-title-journal" prefix=", " suffix=", "/>
>       <text macro="locators"/>
>       <text macro="collection-title" prefix=". "/>
>       <text macro="issue"/>
>       <text macro="locators-article"/>
>       <text macro="access" prefix=". "/>
>     </layout>
> 
> 
> and I think the first date is coming from the "date" macro, while the second is coming from "access," which for web_page uses "issued" date.
> 
> I don't know if this is a bug in the style or if there's some subtlety that's wrong in pandoc's CSL processing. Maybe a CSL expert can chime in here? Or try using Zotero with chicago-author-date.csl to see what it does.
> 
> > On Sep 22, 2022, at 12:35 PM, Antonio Piccolboni <piccolbo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi, I am producing pdf and epub from markdown. The bibliography is in biblatex. There is a problem with @online items in that the year is repeated twice in the output, be it pdf or epub. This is an entry:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > @online{scalding,
> >  title={A DSL that is concise and fun},
> >  url={https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding},
> >  year={2021}
> > }
> > 
> > And this is the result:
> > 
> > “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” 2021. 2021. https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
> > 
> > I am using the options  --citeproc --bibliography biblio.biblatex
> > 
> > Other item types look just fine.
> > Any suggestions? Thanks
> > 
> > 
> > Antonio
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
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> 
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Re: Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

[Bastien DUMONT]

Or to write a Lua filter, of course!

Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 08:44:17PM, Bastien DUMONT a écrit :
> This is because the group ending with a dot contains the author-year form of the reference with the year only, whereas the second date is part of the full reference and would contain the full date if it were provided. The solution is to provide more information in order to get an output like this one:
> 
> Doe, John. 2021. “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” Twitter. June 8, 2021. https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
> 
> Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 12:49:11PM, John MacFarlane a écrit :
> > the CSL has
> > 
> >     <layout suffix=".">
> >       <group delimiter=". ">
> >         <text macro="contributors"/>
> >         <text macro="date"/>
> >         <text macro="title"/>
> >       </group>
> >       <text macro="description"/>
> >       <text macro="secondary-contributors" prefix=". "/>
> >       <text macro="container-title" prefix=". "/>
> >       <text macro="container-contributors"/>
> >       <text macro="edition"/>
> >       <text macro="locators-chapter"/>
> >       <text macro="collection-title-journal" prefix=", " suffix=", "/>
> >       <text macro="locators"/>
> >       <text macro="collection-title" prefix=". "/>
> >       <text macro="issue"/>
> >       <text macro="locators-article"/>
> >       <text macro="access" prefix=". "/>
> >     </layout>
> > 
> > 
> > and I think the first date is coming from the "date" macro, while the second is coming from "access," which for web_page uses "issued" date.
> > 
> > I don't know if this is a bug in the style or if there's some subtlety that's wrong in pandoc's CSL processing. Maybe a CSL expert can chime in here? Or try using Zotero with chicago-author-date.csl to see what it does.
> > 
> > > On Sep 22, 2022, at 12:35 PM, Antonio Piccolboni <piccolbo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hi, I am producing pdf and epub from markdown. The bibliography is in biblatex. There is a problem with @online items in that the year is repeated twice in the output, be it pdf or epub. This is an entry:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > @online{scalding,
> > >  title={A DSL that is concise and fun},
> > >  url={https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding},
> > >  year={2021}
> > > }
> > > 
> > > And this is the result:
> > > 
> > > “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” 2021. 2021. https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
> > > 
> > > I am using the options  --citeproc --bibliography biblio.biblatex
> > > 
> > > Other item types look just fine.
> > > Any suggestions? Thanks
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Antonio
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
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> > 
> > -- 
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> 
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Re: Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

[Antonio Piccolboni]

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In what field am I suppose to enter that "June 8, 2021"? I tried year and 
urldate. The former is repeated twice verbatim, the latter ignored. Thanks
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 1:45:43 PM UTC-7 Bastien Dumont wrote:

> Or to write a Lua filter, of course!
>
> Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 08:44:17PM, Bastien DUMONT a écrit :
> > This is because the group ending with a dot contains the author-year 
> form of the reference with the year only, whereas the second date is part 
> of the full reference and would contain the full date if it were provided. 
> The solution is to provide more information in order to get an output like 
> this one:
> > 
> > Doe, John. 2021. “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” Twitter. June 8, 2021. 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
> > 
> > Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 12:49:11PM, John MacFarlane a écrit :
> > > the CSL has
> > > 
> > > <layout suffix=".">
> > > <group delimiter=". ">
> > > <text macro="contributors"/>
> > > <text macro="date"/>
> > > <text macro="title"/>
> > > </group>
> > > <text macro="description"/>
> > > <text macro="secondary-contributors" prefix=". "/>
> > > <text macro="container-title" prefix=". "/>
> > > <text macro="container-contributors"/>
> > > <text macro="edition"/>
> > > <text macro="locators-chapter"/>
> > > <text macro="collection-title-journal" prefix=", " suffix=", "/>
> > > <text macro="locators"/>
> > > <text macro="collection-title" prefix=". "/>
> > > <text macro="issue"/>
> > > <text macro="locators-article"/>
> > > <text macro="access" prefix=". "/>
> > > </layout>
> > > 
> > > 
> > > and I think the first date is coming from the "date" macro, while the 
> second is coming from "access," which for web_page uses "issued" date.
> > > 
> > > I don't know if this is a bug in the style or if there's some subtlety 
> that's wrong in pandoc's CSL processing. Maybe a CSL expert can chime in 
> here? Or try using Zotero with chicago-author-date.csl to see what it does.
> > > 
> > > > On Sep 22, 2022, at 12:35 PM, Antonio Piccolboni <picc...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> 
> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Hi, I am producing pdf and epub from markdown. The bibliography is 
> in biblatex. There is a problem with @online items in that the year is 
> repeated twice in the output, be it pdf or epub. This is an entry:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > @online{scalding,
> > > > title={A DSL that is concise and fun},
> > > > url={
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding},
> > > > year={2021}
> > > > }
> > > > 
> > > > And this is the result:
> > > > 
> > > > “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” 2021. 2021. 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
> > > > 
> > > > I am using the options --citeproc --bibliography biblio.biblatex
> > > > 
> > > > Other item types look just fine.
> > > > Any suggestions? Thanks
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Antonio
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
> send an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%40googlegroups.com
> .
> > > 
> > > -- 
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> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%40gmail.com
> .
> > 
> > -- 
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> .
>

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Re: Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

[Bastien DUMONT]

Date! The CSL processor parses this field to get either the year or the full date. That said, I don't know how it should be formatted in BibTeX.

Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 03:03:21PM, Antonio Piccolboni a écrit :
> In what field am I suppose to enter that "June 8, 2021"? I tried year and
> urldate. The former is repeated twice verbatim, the latter ignored. Thanks
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 1:45:43 PM UTC-7 Bastien Dumont wrote:
> 
>     Or to write a Lua filter, of course!
> 
>     Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 08:44:17PM, Bastien DUMONT a écrit :
>     > This is because the group ending with a dot contains the author-year form
>     of the reference with the year only, whereas the second date is part of the
>     full reference and would contain the full date if it were provided. The
>     solution is to provide more information in order to get an output like this
>     one:
>     >
>     > Doe, John. 2021. “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” Twitter. June 8, 2021.
>     [1]https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
>     >
>     > Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 12:49:11PM, John MacFarlane a écrit :
>     > > the CSL has
>     > >
>     > > <layout suffix=".">
>     > > <group delimiter=". ">
>     > > <text macro="contributors"/>
>     > > <text macro="date"/>
>     > > <text macro="title"/>
>     > > </group>
>     > > <text macro="description"/>
>     > > <text macro="secondary-contributors" prefix=". "/>
>     > > <text macro="container-title" prefix=". "/>
>     > > <text macro="container-contributors"/>
>     > > <text macro="edition"/>
>     > > <text macro="locators-chapter"/>
>     > > <text macro="collection-title-journal" prefix=", " suffix=", "/>
>     > > <text macro="locators"/>
>     > > <text macro="collection-title" prefix=". "/>
>     > > <text macro="issue"/>
>     > > <text macro="locators-article"/>
>     > > <text macro="access" prefix=". "/>
>     > > </layout>
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > and I think the first date is coming from the "date" macro, while the
>     second is coming from "access," which for web_page uses "issued" date.
>     > >
>     > > I don't know if this is a bug in the style or if there's some subtlety
>     that's wrong in pandoc's CSL processing. Maybe a CSL expert can chime in
>     here? Or try using Zotero with chicago-author-date.csl to see what it does.
>     > >
>     > > > On Sep 22, 2022, at 12:35 PM, Antonio Piccolboni <picc...@gmail.com>
>     wrote:
>     > > >
>     > > > Hi, I am producing pdf and epub from markdown. The bibliography is in
>     biblatex. There is a problem with @online items in that the year is
>     repeated twice in the output, be it pdf or epub. This is an entry:
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > > > @online{scalding,
>     > > > title={A DSL that is concise and fun},
>     > > > url={[2]https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://
>     twitter.com/scalding},
>     > > > year={2021}
>     > > > }
>     > > >
>     > > > And this is the result:
>     > > >
>     > > > “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” 2021. 2021. [3]https://
>     web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
>     > > >
>     > > > I am using the options --citeproc --bibliography biblio.biblatex
>     > > >
>     > > > Other item types look just fine.
>     > > > Any suggestions? Thanks
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > > > Antonio
>     > > >
>     > > > --
>     > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>     Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
>     > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>     send an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>     > > > To view this discussion on the web visit [4]https://groups.google.com
>     /d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
>     826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%40googlegroups.com.
>     > >
>     > > --
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>     > > To view this discussion on the web visit [5]https://groups.google.com/d
>     /msgid/pandoc-discuss/B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%40gmail.com.
>     >
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> 
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> pandoc-discuss/6300be55-0355-4427-9e48-730a1656ffc9n%40googlegroups.com.
> 
> References:
> 
> [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> [4] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%40googlegroups.com
> [5] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%40gmail.com
> [6] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/YyzJIbTFWQuWhF0R%40localhost
> [7] mailto:pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> [8] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/6300be55-0355-4427-9e48-730a1656ffc9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

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Re: Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

[Bastien DUMONT]

Here is a sample I got by exporting an item from Zotero and converting the CSL JSON file to BibLaTeX via Pandoc:

@online{PageWebSimple,
  author = {Author, First Name},
  title = {Title of the Web Page},
  date = {2000-10-20},
  urldate = {2019-07-20},
  url = {http://placeholder.url}
}

Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 03:03:21PM, Antonio Piccolboni a écrit :
> In what field am I suppose to enter that "June 8, 2021"? I tried year and
> urldate. The former is repeated twice verbatim, the latter ignored. Thanks
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 1:45:43 PM UTC-7 Bastien Dumont wrote:
> 
>     Or to write a Lua filter, of course!
> 
>     Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 08:44:17PM, Bastien DUMONT a écrit :
>     > This is because the group ending with a dot contains the author-year form
>     of the reference with the year only, whereas the second date is part of the
>     full reference and would contain the full date if it were provided. The
>     solution is to provide more information in order to get an output like this
>     one:
>     >
>     > Doe, John. 2021. “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” Twitter. June 8, 2021.
>     [1]https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
>     >
>     > Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 12:49:11PM, John MacFarlane a écrit :
>     > > the CSL has
>     > >
>     > > <layout suffix=".">
>     > > <group delimiter=". ">
>     > > <text macro="contributors"/>
>     > > <text macro="date"/>
>     > > <text macro="title"/>
>     > > </group>
>     > > <text macro="description"/>
>     > > <text macro="secondary-contributors" prefix=". "/>
>     > > <text macro="container-title" prefix=". "/>
>     > > <text macro="container-contributors"/>
>     > > <text macro="edition"/>
>     > > <text macro="locators-chapter"/>
>     > > <text macro="collection-title-journal" prefix=", " suffix=", "/>
>     > > <text macro="locators"/>
>     > > <text macro="collection-title" prefix=". "/>
>     > > <text macro="issue"/>
>     > > <text macro="locators-article"/>
>     > > <text macro="access" prefix=". "/>
>     > > </layout>
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > and I think the first date is coming from the "date" macro, while the
>     second is coming from "access," which for web_page uses "issued" date.
>     > >
>     > > I don't know if this is a bug in the style or if there's some subtlety
>     that's wrong in pandoc's CSL processing. Maybe a CSL expert can chime in
>     here? Or try using Zotero with chicago-author-date.csl to see what it does.
>     > >
>     > > > On Sep 22, 2022, at 12:35 PM, Antonio Piccolboni <picc...@gmail.com>
>     wrote:
>     > > >
>     > > > Hi, I am producing pdf and epub from markdown. The bibliography is in
>     biblatex. There is a problem with @online items in that the year is
>     repeated twice in the output, be it pdf or epub. This is an entry:
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > > > @online{scalding,
>     > > > title={A DSL that is concise and fun},
>     > > > url={[2]https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://
>     twitter.com/scalding},
>     > > > year={2021}
>     > > > }
>     > > >
>     > > > And this is the result:
>     > > >
>     > > > “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” 2021. 2021. [3]https://
>     web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
>     > > >
>     > > > I am using the options --citeproc --bibliography biblio.biblatex
>     > > >
>     > > > Other item types look just fine.
>     > > > Any suggestions? Thanks
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > > > Antonio
>     > > >
>     > > > --
>     > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>     Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
>     > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>     send an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>     > > > To view this discussion on the web visit [4]https://groups.google.com
>     /d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
>     826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%40googlegroups.com.
>     > >
>     > > --
>     > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>     > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>     an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>     > > To view this discussion on the web visit [5]https://groups.google.com/d
>     /msgid/pandoc-discuss/B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%40gmail.com.
>     >
>     > --
>     > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>     "pandoc-discuss" group.
>     > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>     email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>     > To view this discussion on the web visit [6]https://groups.google.com/d/
>     msgid/pandoc-discuss/YyzJIbTFWQuWhF0R%40localhost.
> 
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
> to [7]pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> To view this discussion on the web visit [8]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> pandoc-discuss/6300be55-0355-4427-9e48-730a1656ffc9n%40googlegroups.com.
> 
> References:
> 
> [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> [4] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%40googlegroups.com
> [5] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%40gmail.com
> [6] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/YyzJIbTFWQuWhF0R%40localhost
> [7] mailto:pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> [8] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/6300be55-0355-4427-9e48-730a1656ffc9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

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Re: Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

[Antonio Piccolboni]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7080 bytes --]

Thanks,  what I see in my case is that urldate is ignored if either year or 
date field are present. Year or date are mandatory or the key contains the 
letters n.d. I still find seeing the year twice redundant and not 
consistent with how other entry types @book or @article display. 

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:26:11 PM UTC-7 Bastien Dumont wrote:

> Here is a sample I got by exporting an item from Zotero and converting the 
> CSL JSON file to BibLaTeX via Pandoc:
>
> @online{PageWebSimple,
> author = {Author, First Name},
> title = {Title of the Web Page},
> date = {2000-10-20},
> urldate = {2019-07-20},
> url = {http://placeholder.url}
> }
>
> Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 03:03:21PM, Antonio Piccolboni a écrit :
> > In what field am I suppose to enter that "June 8, 2021"? I tried year and
> > urldate. The former is repeated twice verbatim, the latter ignored. 
> Thanks
> > On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 1:45:43 PM UTC-7 Bastien Dumont wrote:
> > 
> > Or to write a Lua filter, of course!
> > 
> > Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 08:44:17PM, Bastien DUMONT a écrit :
> > > This is because the group ending with a dot contains the author-year 
> form
> > of the reference with the year only, whereas the second date is part of 
> the
> > full reference and would contain the full date if it were provided. The
> > solution is to provide more information in order to get an output like 
> this
> > one:
> > >
> > > Doe, John. 2021. “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” Twitter. June 8, 
> 2021.
> > [1]
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
> > >
> > > Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 12:49:11PM, John MacFarlane a écrit :
> > > > the CSL has
> > > >
> > > > <layout suffix=".">
> > > > <group delimiter=". ">
> > > > <text macro="contributors"/>
> > > > <text macro="date"/>
> > > > <text macro="title"/>
> > > > </group>
> > > > <text macro="description"/>
> > > > <text macro="secondary-contributors" prefix=". "/>
> > > > <text macro="container-title" prefix=". "/>
> > > > <text macro="container-contributors"/>
> > > > <text macro="edition"/>
> > > > <text macro="locators-chapter"/>
> > > > <text macro="collection-title-journal" prefix=", " suffix=", "/>
> > > > <text macro="locators"/>
> > > > <text macro="collection-title" prefix=". "/>
> > > > <text macro="issue"/>
> > > > <text macro="locators-article"/>
> > > > <text macro="access" prefix=". "/>
> > > > </layout>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > and I think the first date is coming from the "date" macro, while the
> > second is coming from "access," which for web_page uses "issued" date.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know if this is a bug in the style or if there's some 
> subtlety
> > that's wrong in pandoc's CSL processing. Maybe a CSL expert can chime in
> > here? Or try using Zotero with chicago-author-date.csl to see what it 
> does.
> > > >
> > > > > On Sep 22, 2022, at 12:35 PM, Antonio Piccolboni <
> picc...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi, I am producing pdf and epub from markdown. The bibliography is 
> in
> > biblatex. There is a problem with @online items in that the year is
> > repeated twice in the output, be it pdf or epub. This is an entry:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > @online{scalding,
> > > > > title={A DSL that is concise and fun},
> > > > > url={[2]https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://
> > twitter.com/scalding},
> > > > > year={2021}
> > > > > }
> > > > >
> > > > > And this is the result:
> > > > >
> > > > > “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” 2021. 2021. [3]https://
> > web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am using the options --citeproc --bibliography biblio.biblatex
> > > > >
> > > > > Other item types look just fine.
> > > > > Any suggestions? Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Antonio
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> > send an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit [4]
> https://groups.google.com
> > /d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
> > 826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%40googlegroups.com.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
> send
> > an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit [5]
> https://groups.google.com/d
> > /msgid/pandoc-discuss/B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%40gmail.com.
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups
> > "pandoc-discuss" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an
> > email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit [6]
> https://groups.google.com/d/
> > msgid/pandoc-discuss/YyzJIbTFWQuWhF0R%40localhost.
> > 
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "pandoc-discuss" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email
> > to [7]pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> > To view this discussion on the web visit [8]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> > pandoc-discuss/6300be55-0355-4427-9e48-730a1656ffc9n%40googlegroups.com.
> > 
> > References:
> > 
> > [1] 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> > [2] 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> > [3] 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> > [4] 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%40googlegroups.com
> > [5] 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%40gmail.com
> > [6] 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/YyzJIbTFWQuWhF0R%40localhost
> > [7] mailto:pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> > [8] 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/6300be55-0355-4427-9e48-730a1656ffc9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>
>

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[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 15318 bytes --]

Re: Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

[Bastien DUMONT]

Yes, but it is in line with the Chicago Manual of Style, which the default stylesheet conforms to. At §15.50 (2017 edition) it gives the following example:

Google. 2016. "Privacy Policy." Privacy & Terms. Last modified March 25, 2016. 
http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/.

The same paragraph states: “Chicago requires an access date in citations of websites and other sources consulted online only if no date of publication or revision can be determined from the source”.

But you can modify the stylesheet according to your desiderata if you don't care about following the CMS.

Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 11:35:32PM, Antonio Piccolboni a écrit :
> Thanks,  what I see in my case is that urldate is ignored if either year or
> date field are present. Year or date are mandatory or the key contains the
> letters n.d. I still find seeing the year twice redundant and not consistent
> with how other entry types @book or @article display. 
> 
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:26:11 PM UTC-7 Bastien Dumont wrote:
> 
>     Here is a sample I got by exporting an item from Zotero and converting the
>     CSL JSON file to BibLaTeX via Pandoc:
> 
>     @online{PageWebSimple,
>     author = {Author, First Name},
>     title = {Title of the Web Page},
>     date = {2000-10-20},
>     urldate = {2019-07-20},
>     url = {[1]http://placeholder.url}
>     }
> 
>     Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 03:03:21PM, Antonio Piccolboni a écrit :
>     > In what field am I suppose to enter that "June 8, 2021"? I tried year and
>     > urldate. The former is repeated twice verbatim, the latter ignored.
>     Thanks
>     > On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 1:45:43 PM UTC-7 Bastien Dumont wrote:
>     >
>     > Or to write a Lua filter, of course!
>     >
>     > Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 08:44:17PM, Bastien DUMONT a écrit :
>     > > This is because the group ending with a dot contains the author-year
>     form
>     > of the reference with the year only, whereas the second date is part of
>     the
>     > full reference and would contain the full date if it were provided. The
>     > solution is to provide more information in order to get an output like
>     this
>     > one:
>     > >
>     > > Doe, John. 2021. “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” Twitter. June 8,
>     2021.
>     > [1][2]https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/
>     scalding.
>     > >
>     > > Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 12:49:11PM, John MacFarlane a écrit :
>     > > > the CSL has
>     > > >
>     > > > <layout suffix=".">
>     > > > <group delimiter=". ">
>     > > > <text macro="contributors"/>
>     > > > <text macro="date"/>
>     > > > <text macro="title"/>
>     > > > </group>
>     > > > <text macro="description"/>
>     > > > <text macro="secondary-contributors" prefix=". "/>
>     > > > <text macro="container-title" prefix=". "/>
>     > > > <text macro="container-contributors"/>
>     > > > <text macro="edition"/>
>     > > > <text macro="locators-chapter"/>
>     > > > <text macro="collection-title-journal" prefix=", " suffix=", "/>
>     > > > <text macro="locators"/>
>     > > > <text macro="collection-title" prefix=". "/>
>     > > > <text macro="issue"/>
>     > > > <text macro="locators-article"/>
>     > > > <text macro="access" prefix=". "/>
>     > > > </layout>
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > > > and I think the first date is coming from the "date" macro, while the
>     > second is coming from "access," which for web_page uses "issued" date.
>     > > >
>     > > > I don't know if this is a bug in the style or if there's some
>     subtlety
>     > that's wrong in pandoc's CSL processing. Maybe a CSL expert can chime in
>     > here? Or try using Zotero with chicago-author-date.csl to see what it
>     does.
>     > > >
>     > > > > On Sep 22, 2022, at 12:35 PM, Antonio Piccolboni <
>     picc...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
>     > wrote:
>     > > > >
>     > > > > Hi, I am producing pdf and epub from markdown. The bibliography is
>     in
>     > biblatex. There is a problem with @online items in that the year is
>     > repeated twice in the output, be it pdf or epub. This is an entry:
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > > > @online{scalding,
>     > > > > title={A DSL that is concise and fun},
>     > > > > url={[2][3]https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://
>     > [4]twitter.com/scalding},
>     > > > > year={2021}
>     > > > > }
>     > > > >
>     > > > > And this is the result:
>     > > > >
>     > > > > “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” 2021. 2021. [3]https://
>     > [5]web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
>     > > > >
>     > > > > I am using the options --citeproc --bibliography biblio.biblatex
>     > > > >
>     > > > > Other item types look just fine.
>     > > > > Any suggestions? Thanks
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > > > Antonio
>     > > > >
>     > > > > --
>     > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>     > Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
>     > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>     > send an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>     > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit [4][6]https://
>     groups.google.com
>     > /d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
>     > 826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%[7]40googlegroups.com.
>     > > >
>     > > > --
>     > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>     > Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
>     > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>     send
>     > an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>     > > > To view this discussion on the web visit [5][8]https://
>     groups.google.com/d
>     > /msgid/pandoc-discuss/B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%[9]40gmail.com
>     .
>     > >
>     > > --
>     > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>     Groups
>     > "pandoc-discuss" group.
>     > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>     an
>     > email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>     > > To view this discussion on the web visit [6][10]https://
>     groups.google.com/d/
>     > msgid/pandoc-discuss/YyzJIbTFWQuWhF0R%40localhost.
>     >
>     > --
>     > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>     > "pandoc-discuss" group.
>     > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>     email
>     > to [7]pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>     > To view this discussion on the web visit [8][11]https://groups.google.com
>     /d/msgid/
>     > pandoc-discuss/6300be55-0355-4427-9e48-730a1656ffc9n%[12]
>     40googlegroups.com.
>     >
>     > References:
>     >
>     > [1] [13]https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/
>     scalding
>     > [2] [14]https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/
>     scalding
>     > [3] [15]https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/
>     scalding
>     > [4] [16]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
>     826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%40googlegroups.com
>     > [5] [17]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
>     B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%40gmail.com
>     > [6] [18]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
>     YyzJIbTFWQuWhF0R%40localhost
>     > [7] mailto:pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
>     > [8] [19]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
>     6300be55-0355-4427-9e48-730a1656ffc9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&
>     utm_source=footer
> 
> 
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> pandoc-discuss/568b34c1-c26d-4e14-8c7c-6c503d7a34een%40googlegroups.com.
> 
> References:
> 
> [1] http://placeholder.url/
> [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://
> [4] http://twitter.com/scalding
> [5] http://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> [6] https://groups.google.com/
> [7] http://40googlegroups.com/
> [8] https://groups.google.com/d
> [9] http://40gmail.com/
> [10] https://groups.google.com/d/
> [11] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> [12] http://40googlegroups.com/
> [13] https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> [14] https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> [15] https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> [16] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%40googlegroups.com
> [17] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%40gmail.com
> [18] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/YyzJIbTFWQuWhF0R%40localhost
> [19] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/6300be55-0355-4427-9e48-730a1656ffc9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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Re: Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

[Antonio Piccolboni]

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We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't read anything in your quote of the 
Chicago Manual of style that justifies the current behavior. Thanks


Antonio


On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 1:07:51 AM UTC-7 Bastien Dumont wrote:

> Yes, but it is in line with the Chicago Manual of Style, which the default 
> stylesheet conforms to. At §15.50 (2017 edition) it gives the following 
> example:
>
> Google. 2016. "Privacy Policy." Privacy & Terms. Last modified March 25, 
> 2016. 
> http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/.
>
> The same paragraph states: “Chicago requires an access date in citations 
> of websites and other sources consulted online only if no date of 
> publication or revision can be determined from the source”.
>
> But you can modify the stylesheet according to your desiderata if you 
> don't care about following the CMS.
>
> Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 11:35:32PM, Antonio Piccolboni a écrit :
> > Thanks, what I see in my case is that urldate is ignored if either year 
> or
> > date field are present. Year or date are mandatory or the key contains 
> the
> > letters n.d. I still find seeing the year twice redundant and not 
> consistent
> > with how other entry types @book or @article display. 
> > 
> > On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:26:11 PM UTC-7 Bastien Dumont 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Here is a sample I got by exporting an item from Zotero and converting 
> the
> > CSL JSON file to BibLaTeX via Pandoc:
> > 
> > @online{PageWebSimple,
> > author = {Author, First Name},
> > title = {Title of the Web Page},
> > date = {2000-10-20},
> > urldate = {2019-07-20},
> > url = {[1]http://placeholder.url}
> > }
> > 
> > Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 03:03:21PM, Antonio Piccolboni a écrit :
> > > In what field am I suppose to enter that "June 8, 2021"? I tried year 
> and
> > > urldate. The former is repeated twice verbatim, the latter ignored.
> > Thanks
> > > On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 1:45:43 PM UTC-7 Bastien Dumont 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Or to write a Lua filter, of course!
> > >
> > > Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 08:44:17PM, Bastien DUMONT a écrit :
> > > > This is because the group ending with a dot contains the author-year
> > form
> > > of the reference with the year only, whereas the second date is part of
> > the
> > > full reference and would contain the full date if it were provided. The
> > > solution is to provide more information in order to get an output like
> > this
> > > one:
> > > >
> > > > Doe, John. 2021. “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” Twitter. June 8,
> > 2021.
> > > [1][2]https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/
> > scalding.
> > > >
> > > > Le Thursday 22 September 2022 à 12:49:11PM, John MacFarlane a écrit :
> > > > > the CSL has
> > > > >
> > > > > <layout suffix=".">
> > > > > <group delimiter=". ">
> > > > > <text macro="contributors"/>
> > > > > <text macro="date"/>
> > > > > <text macro="title"/>
> > > > > </group>
> > > > > <text macro="description"/>
> > > > > <text macro="secondary-contributors" prefix=". "/>
> > > > > <text macro="container-title" prefix=". "/>
> > > > > <text macro="container-contributors"/>
> > > > > <text macro="edition"/>
> > > > > <text macro="locators-chapter"/>
> > > > > <text macro="collection-title-journal" prefix=", " suffix=", "/>
> > > > > <text macro="locators"/>
> > > > > <text macro="collection-title" prefix=". "/>
> > > > > <text macro="issue"/>
> > > > > <text macro="locators-article"/>
> > > > > <text macro="access" prefix=". "/>
> > > > > </layout>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > and I think the first date is coming from the "date" macro, while 
> the
> > > second is coming from "access," which for web_page uses "issued" date.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know if this is a bug in the style or if there's some
> > subtlety
> > > that's wrong in pandoc's CSL processing. Maybe a CSL expert can chime 
> in
> > > here? Or try using Zotero with chicago-author-date.csl to see what it
> > does.
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Sep 22, 2022, at 12:35 PM, Antonio Piccolboni <
> > picc...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi, I am producing pdf and epub from markdown. The bibliography 
> is
> > in
> > > biblatex. There is a problem with @online items in that the year is
> > > repeated twice in the output, be it pdf or epub. This is an entry:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > @online{scalding,
> > > > > > title={A DSL that is concise and fun},
> > > > > > url={[2][3]https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://
> > > [4]twitter.com/scalding},
> > > > > > year={2021}
> > > > > > }
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And this is the result:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” 2021. 2021. [3]https://
> > > [5]web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am using the options --citeproc --bibliography biblio.biblatex
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Other item types look just fine.
> > > > > > Any suggestions? Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Antonio
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
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> > > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit [4][6]https://
> > groups.google.com
> > > /d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
> > > 826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%[7]40googlegroups.com.
> > > > >
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> > groups.google.com/d
> > > /msgid/pandoc-discuss/B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%[9]
> 40gmail.com
> > .
> > > >
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> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit [6][10]https://
> > groups.google.com/d/
> > > msgid/pandoc-discuss/YyzJIbTFWQuWhF0R%40localhost.
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
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> > > To view this discussion on the web visit [8][11]
> https://groups.google.com
> > /d/msgid/
> > > pandoc-discuss/6300be55-0355-4427-9e48-730a1656ffc9n%[12]
> > 40googlegroups.com.
> > >
> > > References:
> > >
> > > [1] [13]
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/
> > scalding
> > > [2] [14]
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/
> > scalding
> > > [3] [15]
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/
> > scalding
> > > [4] [16]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
> > 826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%40googlegroups.com
> > > [5] [17]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
> > B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%40gmail.com
> > > [6] [18]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
> > YyzJIbTFWQuWhF0R%40localhost
> > > [7] mailto:pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> > > [8] [19]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/
> > 6300be55-0355-4427-9e48-730a1656ffc9n%
> 40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&
> > utm_source=footer
> > 
> > 
> > --
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> an email
> > to [20]pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> > To view this discussion on the web visit [21]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> > pandoc-discuss/568b34c1-c26d-4e14-8c7c-6c503d7a34een%40googlegroups.com.
> > 
> > References:
> > 
> > [1] http://placeholder.url/
> > [2] 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> > [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://
> > [4] http://twitter.com/scalding
> > [5] 
> http://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> > [6] https://groups.google.com/
> > [7] http://40googlegroups.com/
> > [8] https://groups.google.com/d
> > [9] http://40gmail.com/
> > [10] https://groups.google.com/d/
> > [11] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> > [12] http://40googlegroups.com/
> > [13] 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> > [14] 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> > [15] 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding
> > [16] 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/826a8e3a-24ed-407d-bc2b-8320ac9a75e0n%40googlegroups.com
> > [17] 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/B3269C33-2E6B-403C-BC73-4139FC900699%40gmail.com
> > [18] 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/YyzJIbTFWQuWhF0R%40localhost
> > [19] 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/6300be55-0355-4427-9e48-730a1656ffc9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> > [20] mailto:pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> > [21] 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/568b34c1-c26d-4e14-8c7c-6c503d7a34een%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>
>

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Re: Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

['Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss]

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I don't have a clear solution, but it looks like the root cause is that in the absence of an author,  the title is moved to the beginning position *and* the date consists only of the year.

Adding a full date to the example from the initial post the result is

“A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” 2021. November 23, 2021.
https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.

... and adding an author as well results in

Scalding. 2021. “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” November 23, 2021.
https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.

Now, at least the latter results looks perfectly normal, so I don't think this is a CSL style issue per se.

I guess in principle, the mechanism that moves the title could be made to also check whether this leaves years or a date and a year side by side.

On the other hand, I'm not sure this is really worthwhile, since in practice you should probably always include an organization field in the biblatex data, which in turn ensures that the year and full date are separate, even if there is no author and the title is moved.

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Re: Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

[Antonio Piccolboni]

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Well, it may look perfectly normal  to you, but to me, in the context of 
@book and @article entries which also  have a published date that is 
ignored in the rendering of the bibliography entry, it doesn't.  For now I 
switched to IEEE.csl which doesn't have this inconsistency and I will think 
if I really need to go back to the Chicago style later.  Thanks


Antonio

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:23:29 PM UTC-7 Nick Bart wrote:

> I don't have a clear solution, but it looks like the root cause is that in 
> the absence of an author,  the title is moved to the beginning position 
> *and* the date consists only of the year.
>
> Adding a full date to the example from the initial post the result is
>
> “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” 2021. November 23, 2021.
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
>
> ... and adding an author as well results in
>
> Scalding. 2021. “A DSL That Is Concise and Fun.” November 23, 2021.
> https://web.archive.org/web/20211216060806/https://twitter.com/scalding.
>
> Now, at least the latter results looks perfectly normal, so I don't think 
> this is a CSL style issue per se.
>
> I guess in principle, the mechanism that moves the title could be made to 
> also check whether this leaves years or a date and a year side by side.
>
> On the other hand, I'm not sure this is really worthwhile, since in 
> practice you should probably always include an organization field in the 
> biblatex data, which in turn ensures that the year and full date are 
> separate, even if there is no author and the title is moved.
>

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Re: Year appears twice in biblio item from @online biblatex entry

['Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss]

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Suit yourself, but note that the alleged inconsistency is actually prescribed by the Chicago Manual itself, compare 15.40 ff., 15.46 ff., and 15.50 ff.

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