* License terms for pandoc's default templates
@ 2023-07-20 0:14 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss
[not found] ` <cf5d7116-e4c5-4a4b-923d-6b3b275d16e4n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss @ 2023-07-20 0:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss
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Hi,
I'd like to ask for clarification on the license terms for pandoc's default
template files.
According to the COPYRIGHT file, pandoc's templates can be licensed under
either the GPL version 2 (or any later version) or the 3-clause BSD license.
Taking these licenses literally, I've come to the conclusion that we *might*
be required to include a copyright notice and the license text (of our
choice) in the documents generated from these templates (and/or in the
accompanying materials).
This would not be a problem per se, pandoc is a great and immensely useful
tool, and we want to make sure we are using it in accordance with its
license terms.
However, while I suppose you *could* interpret the license terms that way,
I'm not so sure that was the intent.
For example from the 3-clause BSD license:
> 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice,
this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
>
> 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
I guess it boils down to whether the generated documents are considered
"redistributions" of the templates.
I may be way off (not a lawyer), but perhaps others have also wondered
about this, and it might even be worth adding some clarifying wording to
the COPYRIGHT file.
Regards,
Julian Reich
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* Re: License terms for pandoc's default templates
[not found] ` <cf5d7116-e4c5-4a4b-923d-6b3b275d16e4n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
@ 2023-07-20 0:36 ` John MacFarlane
[not found] ` <83606CC6-24DE-4351-8D98-60973D0DDD4F-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: John MacFarlane @ 2023-07-20 0:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw
These are issues that go beyond my legal knowledge. I don't think the generated documents
would count as redistributions of the templates. They are derivative works, certainly, which is
relevant to the GPL license but maybe not BSD?
What I can say is that I certainly never intended a requirement that documents generated
using these templates contain a copyright or license notice.
> On Jul 19, 2023, at 5:14 PM, 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss <pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to ask for clarification on the license terms for pandoc's default template files.
> According to the COPYRIGHT file, pandoc's templates can be licensed under either the GPL version 2 (or any later version) or the 3-clause BSD license.
> Taking these licenses literally, I've come to the conclusion that we might be required to include a copyright notice and the license text (of our choice) in the documents generated from these templates (and/or in the accompanying materials).
> This would not be a problem per se, pandoc is a great and immensely useful tool, and we want to make sure we are using it in accordance with its license terms.
> However, while I suppose you could interpret the license terms that way, I'm not so sure that was the intent.
>
> For example from the 3-clause BSD license:
>
> > 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
> >
> > 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
>
> I guess it boils down to whether the generated documents are considered "redistributions" of the templates.
> I may be way off (not a lawyer), but perhaps others have also wondered about this, and it might even be worth adding some clarifying wording to the COPYRIGHT file.
>
>
> Regards,
> Julian Reich
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
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* Re: License terms for pandoc's default templates
[not found] ` <83606CC6-24DE-4351-8D98-60973D0DDD4F-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
@ 2023-07-24 9:05 ` 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss
[not found] ` <81877b75-2b0b-4813-a073-b93f79909a28n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss @ 2023-07-24 9:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss
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Hi,
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:36:49 AM UTC+2 John MacFarlane wrote:
What I can say is that I certainly never intended a requirement that
documents generated
using these templates contain a copyright or license notice.
Thank you for your prompt response and clarification.
The more I think about it: if we consider the template to be a program
itself, and the generated document to be the output of that program, it
seems rather far-fetched that the license of the program should extend to
its output.
Then again, these are just my personal rationalizations, still not a lawyer.
Regards,
Julian Reich
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* Re: License terms for pandoc's default templates
[not found] ` <81877b75-2b0b-4813-a073-b93f79909a28n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
@ 2023-07-24 9:28 ` Bastien DUMONT
2023-07-24 10:02 ` Daniel Littlewood
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Bastien DUMONT @ 2023-07-24 9:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss
For the mere pleasure of discussing theoretical legal aspects, here is a Q&A that clarifies the issue (especially the first paragraph): https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WMS
Le Monday 24 July 2023 à 02:05:36AM, 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:36:49 AM UTC+2 John MacFarlane wrote:
>
> What I can say is that I certainly never intended a requirement that
> documents generated
> using these templates contain a copyright or license notice.
>
>
> Thank you for your prompt response and clarification.
> The more I think about it: if we consider the template to be a program itself,
> and the generated document to be the output of that program, it seems rather
> far-fetched that the license of the program should extend to its output.
> Then again, these are just my personal rationalizations, still not a lawyer.
>
>
> Regards,
> Julian Reich
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
> to [1]pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> To view this discussion on the web visit [2]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> pandoc-discuss/81877b75-2b0b-4813-a073-b93f79909a28n%40googlegroups.com.
>
> References:
>
> [1] mailto:pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> [2] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/81877b75-2b0b-4813-a073-b93f79909a28n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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* Re: License terms for pandoc's default templates
2023-07-24 9:28 ` Bastien DUMONT
@ 2023-07-24 10:02 ` Daniel Littlewood
0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Littlewood @ 2023-07-24 10:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw
I suspect that the pandoc templates are not sufficiently novel to be protected.
In particular, see https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLOutput (quoted
below, my emphasis)
> ... the only way you have a say in the use of the output is if *substantial
> parts of the output* are copied (more or less) from text in your program
Having at least looked at the HTML template, I don't think it would qualify as
a "creative work" at all. You could add a clarification to the LICENSE that
it's pandoc's position that output documents are not copyrightable, or you
could explicitly license them as Public Domain / some Permissive license. But I
doubt that it's necessary - it's intuitively obvious that the output of pandoc
should inherit the license of its input.
All the best,
Dan
On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 10:28 AM Bastien DUMONT
<bastien.dumont-VwIFZPTo/vqsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> For the mere pleasure of discussing theoretical legal aspects, here is a Q&A that clarifies the issue (especially the first paragraph): https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WMS
>
> Le Monday 24 July 2023 à 02:05:36AM, 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss a écrit :
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:36:49 AM UTC+2 John MacFarlane wrote:
> >
> > What I can say is that I certainly never intended a requirement that
> > documents generated
> > using these templates contain a copyright or license notice.
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your prompt response and clarification.
> > The more I think about it: if we consider the template to be a program itself,
> > and the generated document to be the output of that program, it seems rather
> > far-fetched that the license of the program should extend to its output.
> > Then again, these are just my personal rationalizations, still not a lawyer.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Julian Reich
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "pandoc-discuss" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
> > to [1]pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> > To view this discussion on the web visit [2]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> > pandoc-discuss/81877b75-2b0b-4813-a073-b93f79909a28n%40googlegroups.com.
> >
> > References:
> >
> > [1] mailto:pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> > [2] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/81877b75-2b0b-4813-a073-b93f79909a28n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>
> --
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2023-07-20 0:14 License terms for pandoc's default templates 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss
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2023-07-20 0:36 ` John MacFarlane
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2023-07-24 9:05 ` 'Julian Reich' via pandoc-discuss
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2023-07-24 9:28 ` Bastien DUMONT
2023-07-24 10:02 ` Daniel Littlewood
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