From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/33016 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bastien DUMONT Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: Single and double quotes in Context with British English Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2023 19:23:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6bf5b865-b98a-4eab-ac15-9ca58d38e6cfn@googlegroups.com> <1513fe42-80ad-4acd-bb53-85a04ed52a7cn@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16151"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBDCINCES2QJRBMO2VKTAMGQEJWAMHFA-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Wed Aug 02 21:23:34 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from mail-lj1-f186.google.com ([209.85.208.186]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qRHRW-00041P-ES for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org; 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[185.67.36.66]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w3-20020a05651234c300b004fe35588f4asi528722lfr.6.2023.08.02.12.23.28 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 02 Aug 2023 12:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of bastien.dumont-VwIFZPTo/vqsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org designates 185.67.36.66 as permitted sender) client-ip=185.67.36.66; Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F48D240103 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2023 21:23:27 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RGMMg047Lz6tvm for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2023 21:23:26 +0200 (CEST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1513fe42-80ad-4acd-bb53-85a04ed52a7cn-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> X-Original-Sender: bastien.dumont-VwIFZPTo/vqsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=g9MAutOj; spf=pass (google.com: domain of bastien.dumont-VwIFZPTo/vqsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org designates 185.67.36.66 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bastien.dumont-VwIFZPTo/vqsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=posteo.net Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.text.pandoc:33016 Archived-At: DoubleQuote is for primary quotations and SingleQuotes for secondary (i.e.= =C2=A0nested) ones, whatever language you set in the metadata. It is purely= semantic markup, unrelated to the formatting of the quotes in the language= of the document (e.g. in French, " " corresponds to =C2=AB =C2=BB and ' ' = to =E2=80=9C =E2=80=9D). In ConTeXt, it is the same thing for \quotation an= d \quote, so this mapping is appropriate. Again, if you want to use US-styl= e quotation marks in a document which follows British conventions otherwise= , the proper solution is to configure the formatting using the means provid= ed by each format. Of course, you can disable =E2=80=9Csmart=E2=80=9D (I do it myself), but th= is will have other consequences documented in the manual (notably, =E2=80= =9C...=E2=80=9D will no longer be turned to an ellipsis). Le Wednesday 02 August 2023 =C3=A0 11:54:05AM, Thomas Hodgson a =C3=A9crit = : > Correct me if I'm wrong, but here is how I think it works now: >=20 > 'foo' -> Quoted SingleQuote [ Str "foo" ] -> \quote{foo} > "bar" -> Quoted DoubleQuote [ Str "bar" ] -> \quotation{bar} >=20 > My suggestion is that if the language is British (and maybe for some othe= r > varieties, I haven't checked) the result should be: >=20 > 'foo' -> Quoted SingleQuote [ Str "foo" ] -> \quotation{foo} > "bar" -> Quoted DoubleQuote [ Str "bar" ] -> \quote{bar} >=20 > That would avoid my problem. >=20 > But, I think it might create one for a different user. Someone might be u= sed to > typing in the US style. They then want their output to be the British sty= le, so > they change the language variable. And now they get the wrong quote marks= . So > maybe it's not a good idea even if its possible. >=20 > By the way, while I was thinking about this I noticed that the HTML templ= ate > sets this CSS: `q { quotes: "=E2=80=9C" "=E2=80=9D" "=E2=80=98" "=E2=80= =99"; }`. So, it forces the US quote > convention even if the language is set to British. >=20 > On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 20:19:15 UTC+2 Bastien DUMONT wrote: >=20 > What would the change be exactly? >=20 > Le Wednesday 02 August 2023 =C3=A0 10:57:11AM, Thomas Hodgson a =C3= =A9crit : > > I wonder whether it would be feasible/desirable for the Context wri= ter to > > change its mapping from DoubleQuote/SingleQuote to `\quotation`/`\q= uote` > based > > on the language of the document? (And the same for `\enquote`/`\enq= uote*` > for > > LaTeX.) > > > > On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 18:27:38 UTC+2 Thomas Hodgson wrote: > > > > Thank you. > > > > I tried this (included in my header) and I get the result I want vi= sually > > in the PDF: > > > > ``` > > \setuplanguage[en-gb][ > > =C2=A0 leftquotation=3D=E2=80=9C, > > =C2=A0 rightquotation=3D=E2=80=9D, > > =C2=A0 leftquote=3D=E2=80=98, > > =C2=A0 rightquote=3D=E2=80=99, > > ] > > ``` > > > > On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 16:55:36 UTC+2 Bastien DUMONT wrote: > > > > As you saw in the ConTeXt outputs, whatever language you set in the > > metadata, Pandoc will always identify double quotes as primary quot= es > > and single quotes as secondary quotes. How they are rendered in PDF > > depends on ConTeXt. To alter the rendering of British English, you = will > > need to use the macro \setuplanguage ([1][1]https:// > wiki.contextgarden.net > > /Command/setuplanguage). > > > > Le Wednesday 02 August 2023 =C3=A0 07:10:40AM, Thomas Hodgson a =C3= =A9crit : > > > When I have a markdown file like this: > > > > > > ``` > > > 'foo' > > > "bar" > > > ``` > > > > > > The result of `pandoc --to=3Dcontext foo.md` is `\quote{foo} \quo= tation > > {bar}`. > > > The result of `pandoc --to=3Dcontext --output=3Dfoo.pdf foo.md` i= s what I > > would > > > expect: single quotes around 'foo' and double quotes around 'bar'= . > > The output > > > of `pandoc --metadata=3Dlang:en-GB --to=3Dcontext foo.md` is the = same. > > But, the > > > output of `pandoc --metadata=3Dlang:en-GB --to=3Dcontext --output= =3Dfoo.pdf > > foo.md` > > > has double quotes around 'foo' and single quotes around 'bar'. > > > > > > I could solve this by using double quotes where I want single, an= d > > vice versa. > > > But that will give the wrong result for HTML from the same source= . > > Also, I'm > > > sure that I would forget half the time. > > > > > > I assume that this happens because Pandoc treats the double quote= as > > the 'top' > > > level of quotes, which in US English is a double quote and in UK > > English (in > > > this case, confusingly) is a single quote. I don't think it's a b= ug, > > therefore. > > > > > > I think that the same thing happens with csquotes and LaTeX. But > > there I don't > > > turn on csquotes. > > > > > > Is there some way to get the behaviour I want while still using > > British > > > English? > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e > > Groups > > > "pandoc-discuss" group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > > send an email > > > to [1][2]pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > > > To view this discussion on the web visit [2][2]https:// > > [3]groups.google.com/d/msgid/ > > > pandoc-discuss/6bf5b865-b98a-4eab-ac15-9ca58d38e6cfn%[3] > > [4]40googlegroups.com. > > > > > > References: > > > > > > [1] mailto:[5]pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > > [2] [4][6]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/ > > 6bf5b865-b98a-4eab-ac15-9ca58d38e6cfn%[7]40googlegroups.com?utm_med= ium=3D > > email&utm_source=3Dfooter > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google = Groups > > "pandoc-discuss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, s= end an > email > > to [5][8]pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > > To view this discussion on the web visit [6][9]https://groups.googl= e.com/ > d/msgid/ > > pandoc-discuss/a1f39c5a-624a-48d7-af9a-d4b7dd66f3bbn%[10] > 40googlegroups.com. > > > > References: > > > > [1] [11]https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/setuplanguage > > [2] [12]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ > > [3] [13]http://40googlegroups.com/ > > [4] [14]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/ > 6bf5b865-b98a-4eab-ac15-9ca58d38e6cfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium= =3Demail& > utm_source=3Dfooter > > [5] mailto:[15]pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > [6] [16]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/ > a1f39c5a-624a-48d7-af9a-d4b7dd66f3bbn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium= =3Demail& > utm_source=3Dfooter >=20 >=20 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "pandoc-discuss" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email > to [17]pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To view this discussion on the web visit [18]https://groups.google.com/d/= msgid/ > pandoc-discuss/1513fe42-80ad-4acd-bb53-85a04ed52a7cn%40googlegroups.com. >=20 > References: >=20 > [1] https://wiki.contextgarden.net/ > [2] - > [3] http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ > [4] http://40googlegroups.com/ > [5] - > [6] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/ > [7] http://40googlegroups.com/?utm_medium=3D > [8] - > [9] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ > [10] http://40googlegroups.com/ > [11] https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/setuplanguage > [12] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ > [13] http://40googlegroups.com/ > [14] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/6bf5b865-b98a-4eab-= ac15-9ca58d38e6cfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfoote= r > [15] - > [16] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/a1f39c5a-624a-48d7-= af9a-d4b7dd66f3bbn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfoote= r > [17] mailto:pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > [18] https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/1513fe42-80ad-4acd-= bb53-85a04ed52a7cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfoote= r --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. 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