From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/33022 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thomas Hodgson Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: Single and double quotes in Context with British English Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2023 07:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <6bf5b865-b98a-4eab-ac15-9ca58d38e6cfn@googlegroups.com> <1513fe42-80ad-4acd-bb53-85a04ed52a7cn@googlegroups.com> <8e63fe5e-de8b-1bdb-27d7-60fab49f2b7b@web.de> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_6082_889543337.1691072599617" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30167"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: pandoc-discuss Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBCEYTH5K2IARBWPQV2TAMGQEUM24L7Q-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Thu Aug 03 16:23:24 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from mail-oa1-f64.google.com ([209.85.160.64]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qRZEa-0007Uc-JI for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Thu, 03 Aug 2023 07:23:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:2190:b0:3a7:4c85:30e2 with SMTP id be16-20020a056808219000b003a74c8530e2mr7928185oib.8.1691072600450; Thu, 03 Aug 2023 07:23:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: thomas.hodgson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.text.pandoc:33022 Archived-At: ------=_Part_6082_889543337.1691072599617 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6083_1406220667.1691072599617" ------=_Part_6083_1406220667.1691072599617 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks! Yes, that solves my problem with writing to ODT etc. On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 12:16:58 UTC+2 Bastien DUMONT wrote: > Yes, you're right. > > One of the Lua filters in the official repo replaces the Quoted elements= =20 > with typographic quotes. Since the transformation is performed on the AST= ,=20 > it will apply to all output formats.=20 > https://github.com/pandoc/lua-filters/tree/master/pandoc-quotes.lua > > In your case, you would just have to write in your YAML block: > > lang: en-GB > quot-lang: en-US > > Le Thursday 03 August 2023 =C3=A0 02:46:58AM, Thomas Hodgson a =C3=A9crit= : > > Thanks everybody. I understand better how this works. > >=20 > > The thing I still find awkward is that I can treat the quotes as semant= ic > > markup only for some output formats. It works that way for Context. And= =20 > for > > LaTeX with csquotes, and HTML with q tags (and custom CSS). But for LaT= eX > > without csquotes, html without q tags, or ODT (for example) a double=20 > quote in > > my source is a double quote in my output and no language setting will= =20 > change > > it. For example, with LaTeX: > >=20 > > 'foo' -> Quoted SingleQuote [ Str "foo" ] -> `foo' > > "bar" -> Quoted DoubleQuote [ Str "bar" ] -> ``bar'' > >=20 > > On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 22:26:53 UTC+2 Pablo Rodr=C3=ADguez wrot= e: > >=20 > > On 8/2/23 20:54, Thomas Hodgson wrote: > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but here is how I think it works now: > > > > > > 'foo' -> Quoted SingleQuote [ Str "foo" ] -> \quote{foo} > > > "bar" -> Quoted DoubleQuote [ Str "bar" ] -> \quotation{bar} > > > > > > My suggestion is that if the language is British (and maybe for some > > > other varieties, I haven't checked) the result should be: > > > > > > 'foo' -> Quoted SingleQuote [ Str "foo" ] -> \quotation{foo} > > > "bar" -> Quoted DoubleQuote [ Str "bar" ] -> \quote{bar} > > > > > > That would avoid my problem. > >=20 > > After having using ConTeXt for more than a decade (mainly without > > pandoc), I think this is an issue with ConTeXt, not with pandoc. > >=20 > > Quotes or quotation marks aren=E2=80=99t set in stone. I mean, for Span= ish and > > any language with diacritical marks I would never use these =E2=80=9Cqu= otes=E2=80=9D, > > but these =C2=ABones=C2=BB (either single or double). They don=E2=80=99= t interfere with > > the marks (such as =E2=80=9C=C3=B1and=C3=BA=E2=80=9D and =C2=AB=C3=B1an= d=C3=BA=C2=BB). > >=20 > > I=E2=80=99m not a native speaker and I=E2=80=99m mainly exposed to US E= nglish. If > > British English uses double quotes for \quotation and single quotes for > > \quote, you could do the following: > >=20 > > Either you suggest to change the default in ConTeXt itself, or you plac= e > > a file that includes the following in your local tree: > >=20 > > \setuplanguage[en-gb][ > > leftquotation=3D=E2=80=9C, > > rightquotation=3D=E2=80=9D, > > leftquote=3D=E2=80=98, > > rightquote=3D=E2=80=99, > > ] > >=20 > > I don=E2=80=99t have myself TeX Live installed (I use a pure ConTeXt > > distribution) and in my case the file is > > "$HOME/texmf/texmf-local/cont-loc.mkxl". > >=20 > > If you are on Windows, it would read > > "%USERPROFILE%/texmf/texmf-local/cont-loc.mkxl". > >=20 > > After creating the file and saving the contents, it might be wise to > > clean the cache and generate it again. > >=20 > > "mtxrun --scripts cache --erase && mtxrun --generate" does this in part= . > >=20 > > After that, the next compilation would take longer, since it will have > > to create the format file (required by ConTeXt). > >=20 > > Just in case it helps, > >=20 > > Pablo > >=20 > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > > "pandoc-discuss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= =20 > an email > > to [1]pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > > To view this discussion on the web visit [2] > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ > > pandoc-discuss/d9bcf5be-c7f3-4225-ab9e-0d4cdc8de1e6n%40googlegroups.com= . > >=20 > > References: > >=20 > > [1] mailto:pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org > > [2]=20 > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/d9bcf5be-c7f3-4225-ab9e-= 0d4cdc8de1e6n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= pandoc-discuss/a15e8946-9e61-4034-ab90-4613a233b204n%40googlegroups.com. ------=_Part_6083_1406220667.1691072599617 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks! Yes, that solves my problem with writing to ODT etc.

On Thursday,= 3 August 2023 at 12:16:58 UTC+2 Bastien DUMONT wrote:
Yes, you're right.

One of the Lua filters in the official repo replaces the Quoted element= s with typographic quotes. Since the transformation is performed on the AST= , it will apply to all output formats. https://github.com/pandoc/lua-filters/tree/master/pandoc-quotes.lua

In your case, you would just have to write in your YAML block:

lang: en-GB
quot-lang: en-US

Le Thursday 03 August 2023 =C3=A0 02:46:58AM, Thomas Hodgson a =C3=A9cr= it :
> Thanks everybody. I understand better how this works.
>=20
> The thing I still find awkward is that I can treat the quotes as s= emantic
> markup only for some output formats. It works that way for Context= . And for
> LaTeX with csquotes, and HTML with q tags (and custom CSS). But fo= r LaTeX
> without csquotes, html without q tags, or ODT (for example) a doub= le quote in
> my source is a double quote in my output and no language setting w= ill change
> it. For example, with LaTeX:
>=20
> 'foo' -> Quoted SingleQuote [ Str "foo" ] -&g= t; `foo'
> "bar" -> Quoted DoubleQuote [ Str "bar" ] -= > ``bar''
>=20
> On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 22:26:53 UTC+2 Pablo Rodr=C3=ADguez= wrote:
>=20
> On 8/2/23 20:54, Thomas Hodgson wrote:
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but here is how I think it w= orks now:
> >
> > 'foo' -> Quoted SingleQuote [ Str "foo&qu= ot; ] -> \quote{foo}
> > "bar" -> Quoted DoubleQuote [ Str "bar&= quot; ] -> \quotation{bar}
> >
> > My suggestion is that if the language is British (and may= be for some
> > other varieties, I haven't checked) the result should= be:
> >
> > 'foo' -> Quoted SingleQuote [ Str "foo&qu= ot; ] -> \quotation{foo}
> > "bar" -> Quoted DoubleQuote [ Str "bar&= quot; ] -> \quote{bar}
> >
> > That would avoid my problem.
>=20
> After having using ConTeXt for more than a decade (mainly with= out
> pandoc), I think this is an issue with ConTeXt, not with pando= c.
>=20
> Quotes or quotation marks aren=E2=80=99t set in stone. I mean,= for Spanish and
> any language with diacritical marks I would never use these = =E2=80=9Cquotes=E2=80=9D,
> but these =C2=ABones=C2=BB (either single or double). They don= =E2=80=99t interfere with
> the marks (such as =E2=80=9C=C3=B1and=C3=BA=E2=80=9D and =C2= =AB=C3=B1and=C3=BA=C2=BB).
>=20
> I=E2=80=99m not a native speaker and I=E2=80=99m mainly expose= d to US English. If
> British English uses double quotes for \quotation and single q= uotes for
> \quote, you could do the following:
>=20
> Either you suggest to change the default in ConTeXt itself, or= you place
> a file that includes the following in your local tree:
>=20
> \setuplanguage[en-gb][
> leftquotation=3D=E2=80=9C,
> rightquotation=3D=E2=80=9D,
> leftquote=3D=E2=80=98,
> rightquote=3D=E2=80=99,
> ]
>=20
> I don=E2=80=99t have myself TeX Live installed (I use a pure C= onTeXt
> distribution) and in my case the file is
> "$HOME/texmf/texmf-local/cont-loc.mkxl".
>=20
> If you are on Windows, it would read
> "%USERPROFILE%/texmf/texmf-local/cont-loc.mkxl".
>=20
> After creating the file and saving the contents, it might be w= ise to
> clean the cache and generate it again.
>=20
> "mtxrun --scripts cache --erase && mtxrun --gener= ate" does this in part.
>=20
> After that, the next compilation would take longer, since it w= ill have
> to create the format file (required by ConTeXt).
>=20
> Just in case it helps,
>=20
> Pablo
>=20
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups
> "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, = send an email
> to [1]pandoc-discus...@= googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit [2]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> pandoc-discuss/d9bcf5be-c7f3-4225-ab9e-0d4cdc8de1e6n%40googlegroups.com.
>=20
> References:
>=20
> [1] mailto:pandoc-discu= s...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> [2] https://gro= ups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/d9bcf5be-c7f3-4225-ab9e-0d4cdc8de1e6n= %40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;pandoc-discuss" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pand= oc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d= /msgid/pandoc-discuss/a15e8946-9e61-4034-ab90-4613a233b204n%40googlegroups.= com.
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