Ineditable InDesign tables

Ineditable InDesign tables

[Adam Rice]

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I'm using Pandoc to create an ICML file from a series of markdown files. I 
have a few simple tables in these files. 

When I create an InDesign document and flow the ICML file into it, the 
tables do appear, however, the column widths are extremely narrow (about 6 
characters wide), and I cannot reformat them. When I look at the table in 
InDesign's Story Editor, there seem to be some spurious tags, which I 
suspect might be part of the problem: Story Editor is showing me *two* 
"TablePar > TableHeader" tags for each column-header cell, and two 
"TablePar" tags for each ordinary cell.

When I create an equivalent table from scratch in InDesign, I see only one 
tag per cell. It also doesn't include (for better or worse) the table 
captions that result from Pandoc.

Thanks in advance for any help.

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Re: Ineditable InDesign tables

[John MACFARLANE]

Try creating a simple markdown table in table.md, then:

pandoc -t icml table.md

to look at the icml source pandoc produces for that table.
Let us know if anything looks fishy.  I don't know anything
about ICML, but output for a simple table looks plausible to me
and I don't see doubled anything...

Any ICML experts out there who can comment?

+++ Adam Rice [Nov 02 15 15:08 ]:
>   I'm using Pandoc to create an ICML file from a series of markdown
>   files. I have a few simple tables in these files.
>   When I create an InDesign document and flow the ICML file into it, the
>   tables do appear, however, the column widths are extremely narrow
>   (about 6 characters wide), and I cannot reformat them. When I look at
>   the table in InDesign's Story Editor, there seem to be some spurious
>   tags, which I suspect might be part of the problem: Story Editor is
>   showing me *two* "TablePar > TableHeader" tags for each column-header
>   cell, and two "TablePar" tags for each ordinary cell.
>   When I create an equivalent table from scratch in InDesign, I see only
>   one tag per cell. It also doesn't include (for better or worse) the
>   table captions that result from Pandoc.
>   Thanks in advance for any help.
>
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Re: Ineditable InDesign tables

[mb21]

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Does the same happen when you use multiline or grid tables? 
see http://pandoc.org/README.html#tables


On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 12:08:06 AM UTC+1, Adam Rice wrote:
>
> I'm using Pandoc to create an ICML file from a series of markdown files. I 
> have a few simple tables in these files. 
>
> When I create an InDesign document and flow the ICML file into it, the 
> tables do appear, however, the column widths are extremely narrow (about 6 
> characters wide), and I cannot reformat them. When I look at the table in 
> InDesign's Story Editor, there seem to be some spurious tags, which I 
> suspect might be part of the problem: Story Editor is showing me *two* 
> "TablePar > TableHeader" tags for each column-header cell, and two 
> "TablePar" tags for each ordinary cell.
>
> When I create an equivalent table from scratch in InDesign, I see only one 
> tag per cell. It also doesn't include (for better or worse) the table 
> captions that result from Pandoc.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>

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Re: Ineditable InDesign tables

[Adam Rice]

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Indeed, that makes a difference. I have been using pipe tables because 
they're easy to hand-code, and they seem to result in very narrow columns 
of equal width. With multiline or grid tables, when I place the resulting 
converted ICML in InDesign, it starts out with reasonable and differing 
column widths. Although they also seem to have the double tags on each cell.

With the Multiline table, the blank lines between rows seem to be captured 
as returns at the end of each cell.

I've also noticed that I need to check out the ICML file in order to change 
the table's format (eg, change column widths) in all cases. Which I didn't 
really expect, but now that I understand how it works, I can deal with it.

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Re: Ineditable InDesign tables

[mb21]

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With the next pandoc release (or currently building from master), you'll be 
able to use pipe tables as well (see 
commit https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/commit/eb8aee477db045a7449bc752975528263964b8ce).

> Although they also seem to have the double tags on each cell.
What exactly do you mean by that? That the character style is called 
"TablePar > Paragraph"? This is mainly for consistency, since the character 
style for simple tables (which cannot contain paragraphs) is just 
"TablePar". Basically it just mirrors pandoc's AST.

> I've also noticed that I need to check out the ICML file in order to 
change the table's format (eg, change column widths) in all cases. 
Yeah... do you know where the information whether a file is checked out is 
stored? It seems there's nothing pandoc can do to change this. Didn't find 
much about this 
in https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/using/basic-managed-file-workflow.html

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 12:34:03 AM UTC+1, Adam Rice wrote:
>
> Indeed, that makes a difference. I have been using pipe tables because 
> they're easy to hand-code, and they seem to result in very narrow columns 
> of equal width. With multiline or grid tables, when I place the resulting 
> converted ICML in InDesign, it starts out with reasonable and differing 
> column widths. Although they also seem to have the double tags on each cell.
>
> With the Multiline table, the blank lines between rows seem to be captured 
> as returns at the end of each cell.
>
> I've also noticed that I need to check out the ICML file in order to 
> change the table's format (eg, change column widths) in all cases. Which I 
> didn't really expect, but now that I understand how it works, I can deal 
> with it.
>

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Re: Ineditable InDesign tables

[Adam Rice]

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>
>
> What exactly do you mean by that? That the character style is called 
> "TablePar > Paragraph"? This is mainly for consistency, since the character 
> style for simple tables (which cannot contain paragraphs) is just 
> "TablePar". Basically it just mirrors pandoc's AST.
>

What I meant that each cell seems to have  "TablePar > Paragraph" *twice*. 
On further investigation, what I realize is that there are blank lines 
being appended to the contents of every cell (which is sub-optimal), so it 
makes sense to see those tags twice in each cell—once for each line.

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Re: Ineditable InDesign tables

[mb21]

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ah I see what you mean. That's due to the ICML writer inserting a linebreak 
after every paragraph (
https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/blob/master/src/Text/Pandoc/Writers/ICML.hs#L474), 
instead of interspersing them inbetween. I should be able to fix this 
eventually, but takes quite a few changes and I don't have time this 
week... feel free to open an issue.

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 3:09:24 PM UTC+1, Adam Rice wrote:
>
>
>> What exactly do you mean by that? That the character style is called 
>> "TablePar > Paragraph"? This is mainly for consistency, since the character 
>> style for simple tables (which cannot contain paragraphs) is just 
>> "TablePar". Basically it just mirrors pandoc's AST.
>>
>
> What I meant that each cell seems to have  "TablePar > Paragraph" *twice*. 
> On further investigation, what I realize is that there are blank lines 
> being appended to the contents of every cell (which is sub-optimal), so it 
> makes sense to see those tags twice in each cell—once for each line.
>

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