From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/16515 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Tristano Ajmone Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: RFC: Designing Logo of Pandoc Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2016 03:21:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <19578491-59c9-4c3a-b32e-6930895c35e3@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_711_1386029184.1482664884312" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1482664890 20228 195.159.176.226 (25 Dec 2016 11:21:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2016 11:21:30 +0000 (UTC) To: pandoc-discuss Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBCJLV454SUIBBNOX73BAKGQE4HGP5PA-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Sun Dec 25 12:21:25 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-vk0-f56.google.com ([209.85.213.56]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cL6rg-00049b-RB for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2016 12:21:21 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-vk0-f56.google.com with SMTP id x186sf62541596vkd.0 for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2016 03:21:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=wlutIv/087Nv4YdNXSp4XwmpM6xT07kkQGuvZxEjz1Q=; b=CInDTGsDexgPZynFUTo1MRVWg6gmIA0KY2+rRGzRAgJNMdbtAvHe9TLZ7j5afgBr2/ PjP1vXOSLRbys7Mpy5//ec6s58HcBxs7D8iGal/QzrC4yYW+DRmhCq/8nor9IRwzduLs mbFSZPwZADjsZ5zh4Qej3jImjIdV8/QdTFlQCzgfqWGPFagHKacbo1p01lD7VF/CtiUv iIsDW5dFxOjhO5PnJRb4izjXoQGIxcZXU7RASgNMt4lBMaD2EH5oi+vUyA+SHKoQb8SH Kiib69rUepgOxn1Z+uPq8SEKFqJEwIF4OKboqMmZmdqQpRRdt7Ldj5pfQew0zwrn89p2 auAA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=wlutIv/087Nv4YdNXSp4XwmpM6xT07kkQGuvZxEjz1Q=; b=eRAt403SmX+VtEKWQ2eoxEu4ykTjBWxLfElHnPY1nIUKJK+PfOm4GTfk/TRrUT/CGs 7rSZy6kZe5/nMXsFRm/uQkDEilPiLgzgYOlTXr3GIS5ewd+c7l6gPFRN9u1/7RnBpG+X vcYzvsY9ohOC4H90FVF0P8wTNTsDxby+j/BxKDB5viSjzO0B5+Lasq0jfwykUZIR3Cpi dlR2AixyzTUfMFoAdagXehXv0wI6Ugri2+UKLwp6HvUTo66r5Uy6Ada9XeAU7H4p7UEB bgTmQe75Xrb1r5ply29DObzrqyaAsFrinRi9uFs5d8cHHQjEntHWK64S7swvwCuCRhWK q+cw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=wlutIv/087Nv4YdNXSp4XwmpM6xT07kkQGuvZxEjz1Q=; b=JMniCf8oWTIQdCKMfVIBEA1d0mLM3X1R2VQEvJrGyBJziEG5bJtCrBlXC2Da2Eu0qF Jg2eyRzvyTtvRjfpYRodX1JJUiGlN3jamyO3VL0eOqPLHhB8lwTi/T2sUytQdPr6ovD/ emZZXK38NExrOxWEceD6Ji11+6KoCtf8RUkeD94+l/Rnj8sspP86sywT1NBfATod/z1B FuBwyrVYk3KAWMDcGoSzeVCs6Q635hHlGth/zvK/UIwQZC4ROi4mGYkWrCPg5axRmck5 vMM2PrgaLG+KIUSQ567DwUylGUVNH6uvvJp25GYd5yKK/foq2kDoVhFQwE54VKzc09QM vj4w== Original-Sender: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXI6cCBHdWRuDr56+gmk7kdZSOYe5taT5Fp4h9YUq14B7h6xr17CpYJNVQ7Nskf56w== X-Received: by 10.157.51.88 with SMTP id u24mr328837otd.6.1482664885353; Sun, 25 Dec 2016 03:21:25 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 10.157.52.220 with SMTP id t28ls25254463otd.3.gmail; Sun, 25 Dec 2016 03:21:25 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.157.42.16 with SMTP id t16mr468899ota.18.1482664885026; Sun, 25 Dec 2016 03:21:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: tajmone-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.pandoc:16515 Archived-At: ------=_Part_711_1386029184.1482664884312 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_712_837463961.1482664884312" ------=_Part_712_837463961.1482664884312 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi @Kolen Can you explain the pun on pan? I don't get it... (may be because I'm not= =20 > native in English). > > pun: a joke exploiting the different possible meanings of a word or the=20 fact that there are words which sound alike but have different meanings. more than all I though it was also self-referential to the "pun" itself=20 (being "pan" pronounced in a very closely manner) =20 > And I think the handle on the logo makes the 2 corners on the top left an= d=20 > bottom right too much empty space. If the logo is to be refined, may be t= he=20 > handle can be made much shorter, perhaps thicker, kind of cute way. > I absolutely agree. I had some dfficoulties though, I've googled for pans= =20 icons and realized that most of them were not clearly perceivable as frying= =20 pans =E2=80=94 like you said, it can be mistaken for a magnifying glass. In monochrome is difficoult to render the border of the pan. =20 > Another idea to treat the empty space is to put another document on the= =20 > outer border. But I'm not sure "document within document" has the right= =20 > message. > Maybe the best thing is to try ideas directly in some graphic design=20 software =E2=80=94 seeing is stronger than imagining. Sometimes I got best = results=20 by just playing around until I got an image that clicked as being the right= =20 one. The reason why I liked the frying pan is because there are also other=20 linguistic association with cookery:=20 - We usually have a "Cookbook" for everything computer-related. - Markdown comes in "flavors" =E2=80=94 again, a taste/food association - There are quite a few tools out there with names like "Chef",=20 "Gourmet", ecc. But really, it was more a proposal to look into a logo which could be=20 simple and immediate. I've found some of the logo ideas/sketches presente here as being a bit too= =20 sofistaced =E2=80=94 which doesn't mean I don't personally like them, I'm j= ust=20 saying they might convey an image of pandoc being a complicate tool, for=20 experts-only. References to Greek, mythology, maths symbols, and the like, are probably= =20 going to convey an image of complexity which might constrast with pandoc's= =20 nature as a tool that simplifies task, rather than adding complexity. Triangles tend to be associated with corporate logos. I think there is an= =20 expectation when it comes to logos, somehow we have an average perception= =20 of what a corporate logo should like like, and what a FOSS software logo=20 might look like. For example, many popular FOSS projects have logos=20 depicting animals, or simple icons-like images. Corporate logos tend to=20 focus on geometrical shapes like triangles, square, circles. Apple is an=20 evident exception =E2=80=94 and its logo has been very successful and popul= ar. Of course, these are general consideration, not exact rules. Symbols are really a complicate subject matter. Artists warn us that "a=20 pipe is not always a pipe", but psychonalists admit that "a cigar sometimes= =20 is just a cigar".=20 The layman is left wondering what he has been *really *smoking all of his= =20 life =E2=80=94 and not without the feeling that symbols-experts have been h= idying=20 something from him, or that they are jusging him somehow negatively. I say: "A frying pan is just a frying pan!" --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= pandoc-discuss/ac3d31b7-2f8d-49ae-8c57-30a3d67c612e%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_712_837463961.1482664884312 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi @Kolen

Can you explain the pun on pan? I don't get it..= . (may be because I'm not native in English).


pun: a joke exploiting the different possible meanings of a word o= r the fact that there are words which sound alike but have different meanin= gs.

more than all I though it was also self-refere= ntial to the "pun" itself (being "pan" pronounced in a = very closely manner)
=C2=A0

And I think the handle on the logo makes the 2 corne= rs on the top left and bottom right too much empty space. If the logo is to= be refined, may be the handle can be made much shorter, perhaps thicker, k= ind of cute way.


I absolutely agree. I = had some dfficoulties though, I've googled for pans icons and realized = that most of them were not clearly perceivable as frying pans =E2=80=94 lik= e you said, it can be mistaken for a =C2=A0magnifying glass.

=
In monochrome is difficoult to render the border of the pan.
=C2=A0

Another = idea to treat the empty space is to put another document on the outer borde= r. But I'm not sure "document within document" has the right = message.


Maybe the best thing is to try= ideas directly in some graphic design software =E2=80=94 seeing is stronge= r than imagining. Sometimes I got best results by just playing around until= I got an image that clicked as being the right one.

The reason why I liked the frying pan is because there are also other li= nguistic association with cookery:=C2=A0

  • W= e usually have a "Cookbook" for everything computer-related.
    <= /li>
  • Markdown comes in "flavors" =E2=80=94 again, a taste/food= association
  • There are quite a few tools out there with names like = "Chef", "Gourmet", ecc.
But really, it was mor= e a proposal to look into a logo which could be simple and immediate.
=

I've found some of the logo ideas/sketches pr= esente here as being a bit too sofistaced =E2=80=94 which doesn't mean = I don't personally like them, I'm just saying they might convey an = image of pandoc being a complicate tool, for experts-only.

References to Greek, mythology, maths symbols, and the like, are p= robably going to convey an image of complexity which might constrast with p= andoc's nature as a tool that simplifies task, rather than adding compl= exity.

Triangles tend to be associated with corpor= ate logos. I think there is an expectation when it comes to logos, somehow = we have an average perception of what a corporate logo should like like, an= d what a FOSS software logo might look like. For example, many popular FOSS= projects have logos depicting animals, or simple icons-like images. Corpor= ate logos tend to focus on geometrical shapes like triangles, square, circl= es. Apple is an evident exception =E2=80=94 and its logo has been very succ= essful and popular.

Of course, these are general c= onsideration, not exact rules.

Symbols are really = a complicate subject matter. Artists warn us that "a pipe is not alway= s a pipe", but psychonalists admit that "a cigar sometimes is jus= t a cigar".=C2=A0
The layman is left wondering what he has b= een really smoking all of his life =E2=80=94 and not without the fee= ling that symbols-experts have been hidying something from him, or that the= y are jusging him somehow negatively.

I say: "= ;A frying pan is just a frying pan!"

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;pandoc-discuss" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pand= oc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/= msgid/pandoc-discuss/ac3d31b7-2f8d-49ae-8c57-30a3d67c612e%40googlegroups.co= m.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
------=_Part_712_837463961.1482664884312-- ------=_Part_711_1386029184.1482664884312--