Accessibility of Generated Docx

Accessibility of Generated Docx

[Conrad Cunningham]

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I use pandoc to convert Pandoc-flavored Markdown documents to HTML 
(primarily), Word docx, PDF (via LaTeX), etc. I am currently using pandoc 
2.7.3. Microsoft Word for Mac 16.16.14, and MacTeX 2019 on MacOS 10.14.6 
(Mojave).

According to the tests I have run using the WebAIM WAVE tool, the 
accessibility of the generated HTML is reasonable. (I need to give some 
attention to places in the Markdown input where I use tables and alt text.)

For the generated docx, I am using Word for Mac's builtin accessibility 
checker. I found that the generated docx is in compatibility mode. Word for 
Mac's accessibility checker cannot process that kind of file. If I load the 
file into Word and then save as a normal docx, the checker will run.

Is there a less inconvenient way to get the generated output into the 
normal docx mode? I would like to get the final output by running a shell 
script on the Markdown input.

The issues I have found so far in my limited tests are warnings about 
insufficient color contrasts and sequences of blank characters. Some of 
these (e.g., colors in section headers and hyperlinks) seem to be fixable 
by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warnings 
associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic.

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Re: Accessibility of Generated Docx

[Devin Prater]

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As a blind user, I find that mostly everything reads well for screen reader users, even headings, and definition lists—at least on Pages for Mac— are read well. If you make a table like this, I believe screen readers well read it a bit better:

| number | day |
|——|——|
| 1 | Sunday |
| 2 | Monday |
| 3 | Wednesday |

Note that I use Org-mode, so Markdown’s table creation make need to look different. The main thing is, give table columns a title, any way you can, and screen readers will try to read the title before the row’s content, like “Number, 1, row 2 column 1. Day, Sunday, Row 2 column 2.” This helps a lot with following tables, because screen readers always read content in a linear fashion.


Also note that I’m a simpleton, using Org to create well marked up documents, and exporting to HTML either using Markdown or Org’s own exporter.

The “compatibility mode” thing in Word is probably because it sees that Word didn’t make the file, so it does compatibility mode to, probably, make its interpretation of the file more relaxed, to accommodate any errors in Pandoc’s form of DOCX.

> On Sep 12, 2019, at 4:21 PM, Conrad Cunningham <hcc.olemiss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> I use pandoc to convert Pandoc-flavored Markdown documents to HTML (primarily), Word docx, PDF (via LaTeX), etc. I am currently using pandoc 2.7.3. Microsoft Word for Mac 16.16.14, and MacTeX 2019 on MacOS 10.14.6 (Mojave).
> 
> According to the tests I have run using the WebAIM WAVE tool, the accessibility of the generated HTML is reasonable. (I need to give some attention to places in the Markdown input where I use tables and alt text.)
> 
> For the generated docx, I am using Word for Mac's builtin accessibility checker. I found that the generated docx is in compatibility mode. Word for Mac's accessibility checker cannot process that kind of file. If I load the file into Word and then save as a normal docx, the checker will run.
> 
> Is there a less inconvenient way to get the generated output into the normal docx mode? I would like to get the final output by running a shell script on the Markdown input.
> 
> The issues I have found so far in my limited tests are warnings about insufficient color contrasts and sequences of blank characters. Some of these (e.g., colors in section headers and hyperlinks) seem to be fixable by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warnings associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic.
> 
> 
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Re: Accessibility of Generated Docx

[John MacFarlane]

We use compatibility mode so that the docx pandoc produces
will be readable by the widest variety of Word versions (even
quite old ones).

This isn't itself an issue with accessibility; it's just an
issue with the Mac's checker I guess, and I don't think we should
modify pandoc just to work around that.

We could change pandoc to avoid compatibility mode, but that
would mean our docxs can't be read by older Word versions.
At some point it may be worth having this conversation.

In principle we could have a flag to generate either
compatibility mode or not, but that adds a lot of complexity
for little gain.

> by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warnings 
> associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic.

The code coloring is affected by the --highlight-style option. We
provide several styles out of the box, including a monochrome
style which is very high contrast. You can also create and use
your own style. See the docs.


Conrad Cunningham <hcc.olemiss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> I use pandoc to convert Pandoc-flavored Markdown documents to HTML 
> (primarily), Word docx, PDF (via LaTeX), etc. I am currently using pandoc 
> 2.7.3. Microsoft Word for Mac 16.16.14, and MacTeX 2019 on MacOS 10.14.6 
> (Mojave).
>
> According to the tests I have run using the WebAIM WAVE tool, the 
> accessibility of the generated HTML is reasonable. (I need to give some 
> attention to places in the Markdown input where I use tables and alt text.)
>
> For the generated docx, I am using Word for Mac's builtin accessibility 
> checker. I found that the generated docx is in compatibility mode. Word for 
> Mac's accessibility checker cannot process that kind of file. If I load the 
> file into Word and then save as a normal docx, the checker will run.
>
> Is there a less inconvenient way to get the generated output into the 
> normal docx mode? I would like to get the final output by running a shell 
> script on the Markdown input.
>
> The issues I have found so far in my limited tests are warnings about 
> insufficient color contrasts and sequences of blank characters. Some of 
> these (e.g., colors in section headers and hyperlinks) seem to be fixable 
> by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warnings 
> associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic.
>
> -- 
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
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Re: Accessibility of Generated Docx

[BP Jonsson]

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I believe compatibility mode is helpful also when opening docx files in
LibreOffice. At least even quite large files produced by Pandoc open much
faster than some DOCX files people send me.


Den fre 13 sep. 2019 19:31John MacFarlane <jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org> skrev:

>
> We use compatibility mode so that the docx pandoc produces
> will be readable by the widest variety of Word versions (even
> quite old ones).
>
> This isn't itself an issue with accessibility; it's just an
> issue with the Mac's checker I guess, and I don't think we should
> modify pandoc just to work around that.
>
> We could change pandoc to avoid compatibility mode, but that
> would mean our docxs can't be read by older Word versions.
> At some point it may be worth having this conversation.
>
> In principle we could have a flag to generate either
> compatibility mode or not, but that adds a lot of complexity
> for little gain.
>
> > by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warnings
> > associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic.
>
> The code coloring is affected by the --highlight-style option. We
> provide several styles out of the box, including a monochrome
> style which is very high contrast. You can also create and use
> your own style. See the docs.
>
>
> Conrad Cunningham <hcc.olemiss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:
>
> > I use pandoc to convert Pandoc-flavored Markdown documents to HTML
> > (primarily), Word docx, PDF (via LaTeX), etc. I am currently using
> pandoc
> > 2.7.3. Microsoft Word for Mac 16.16.14, and MacTeX 2019 on MacOS 10.14.6
> > (Mojave).
> >
> > According to the tests I have run using the WebAIM WAVE tool, the
> > accessibility of the generated HTML is reasonable. (I need to give some
> > attention to places in the Markdown input where I use tables and alt
> text.)
> >
> > For the generated docx, I am using Word for Mac's builtin accessibility
> > checker. I found that the generated docx is in compatibility mode. Word
> for
> > Mac's accessibility checker cannot process that kind of file. If I load
> the
> > file into Word and then save as a normal docx, the checker will run.
> >
> > Is there a less inconvenient way to get the generated output into the
> > normal docx mode? I would like to get the final output by running a
> shell
> > script on the Markdown input.
> >
> > The issues I have found so far in my limited tests are warnings about
> > insufficient color contrasts and sequences of blank characters. Some of
> > these (e.g., colors in section headers and hyperlinks) seem to be
> fixable
> > by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warnings
> > associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/677959fb-29b8-4eaa-837f-c53e5ea5ab51%40googlegroups.com
> .
>
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/yh480k1rwk6r2b.fsf%40johnmacfarlane.net
> .
>

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Re: Accessibility of Generated Docx

[Conrad Cunningham]

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Thanks. 

It is useful that Pandoc’s docx writer generates files in compatibility mode and that the generated documents are accessible. 

Given my institution’s push to make all public documents accessible, I am looking at convenient (automatable) ways to get my Pandoc-flavored course documents into accessible PDFs and other accessible formats. Unfortunately, mLaTeX-to-PDF support for PDF/UA seems “not ready for prime time”. 

> On Sep 13, 2019, at 3:00 PM, BP Jonsson <bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> I believe compatibility mode is helpful also when opening docx files in LibreOffice. At least even quite large files produced by Pandoc open much faster than some DOCX files people send me.
> 
> 
> Den fre 13 sep. 2019 19:31John MacFarlane <jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org> skrev:
>> 
>> We use compatibility mode so that the docx pandoc produces
>> will be readable by the widest variety of Word versions (even
>> quite old ones).
>> 
>> This isn't itself an issue with accessibility; it's just an
>> issue with the Mac's checker I guess, and I don't think we should
>> modify pandoc just to work around that.
>> 
>> We could change pandoc to avoid compatibility mode, but that
>> would mean our docxs can't be read by older Word versions.
>> At some point it may be worth having this conversation.
>> 
>> In principle we could have a flag to generate either
>> compatibility mode or not, but that adds a lot of complexity
>> for little gain.
>> 
>> > by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warnings 
>> > associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic.
>> 
>> The code coloring is affected by the --highlight-style option. We
>> provide several styles out of the box, including a monochrome
>> style which is very high contrast. You can also create and use
>> your own style. See the docs.
>> 
>> 
>> Conrad Cunningham <hcc.olemiss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:
>> 
>> > I use pandoc to convert Pandoc-flavored Markdown documents to HTML 
>> > (primarily), Word docx, PDF (via LaTeX), etc. I am currently using pandoc 
>> > 2.7.3. Microsoft Word for Mac 16.16.14, and MacTeX 2019 on MacOS 10.14.6 
>> > (Mojave).
>> >
>> > According to the tests I have run using the WebAIM WAVE tool, the 
>> > accessibility of the generated HTML is reasonable. (I need to give some 
>> > attention to places in the Markdown input where I use tables and alt text.)
>> >
>> > For the generated docx, I am using Word for Mac's builtin accessibility 
>> > checker. I found that the generated docx is in compatibility mode. Word for 
>> > Mac's accessibility checker cannot process that kind of file. If I load the 
>> > file into Word and then save as a normal docx, the checker will run.
>> >
>> > Is there a less inconvenient way to get the generated output into the 
>> > normal docx mode? I would like to get the final output by running a shell 
>> > script on the Markdown input.
>> >
>> > The issues I have found so far in my limited tests are warnings about 
>> > insufficient color contrasts and sequences of blank characters. Some of 
>> > these (e.g., colors in section headers and hyperlinks) seem to be fixable 
>> > by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warnings 
>> > associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic.
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/677959fb-29b8-4eaa-837f-c53e5ea5ab51%40googlegroups.com.
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
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Re: Accessibility of Generated Docx

[John MacFarlane]

You can try using alternative paths to pdf (--pdf-engine supports
a number of options, some via HTML, and they may do better for
accessibility, I'm not sure).

Conrad Cunningham <hcc.olemiss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Thanks. 
>
> It is useful that Pandoc’s docx writer generates files in compatibility mode and that the generated documents are accessible. 
>
> Given my institution’s push to make all public documents accessible, I am looking at convenient (automatable) ways to get my Pandoc-flavored course documents into accessible PDFs and other accessible formats. Unfortunately, mLaTeX-to-PDF support for PDF/UA seems “not ready for prime time”. 
>
>> On Sep 13, 2019, at 3:00 PM, BP Jonsson <bpjonsson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I believe compatibility mode is helpful also when opening docx files in LibreOffice. At least even quite large files produced by Pandoc open much faster than some DOCX files people send me.
>> 
>> 
>> Den fre 13 sep. 2019 19:31John MacFarlane <jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org> skrev:
>>> 
>>> We use compatibility mode so that the docx pandoc produces
>>> will be readable by the widest variety of Word versions (even
>>> quite old ones).
>>> 
>>> This isn't itself an issue with accessibility; it's just an
>>> issue with the Mac's checker I guess, and I don't think we should
>>> modify pandoc just to work around that.
>>> 
>>> We could change pandoc to avoid compatibility mode, but that
>>> would mean our docxs can't be read by older Word versions.
>>> At some point it may be worth having this conversation.
>>> 
>>> In principle we could have a flag to generate either
>>> compatibility mode or not, but that adds a lot of complexity
>>> for little gain.
>>> 
>>> > by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warnings 
>>> > associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic.
>>> 
>>> The code coloring is affected by the --highlight-style option. We
>>> provide several styles out of the box, including a monochrome
>>> style which is very high contrast. You can also create and use
>>> your own style. See the docs.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Conrad Cunningham <hcc.olemiss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:
>>> 
>>> > I use pandoc to convert Pandoc-flavored Markdown documents to HTML 
>>> > (primarily), Word docx, PDF (via LaTeX), etc. I am currently using pandoc 
>>> > 2.7.3. Microsoft Word for Mac 16.16.14, and MacTeX 2019 on MacOS 10.14.6 
>>> > (Mojave).
>>> >
>>> > According to the tests I have run using the WebAIM WAVE tool, the 
>>> > accessibility of the generated HTML is reasonable. (I need to give some 
>>> > attention to places in the Markdown input where I use tables and alt text.)
>>> >
>>> > For the generated docx, I am using Word for Mac's builtin accessibility 
>>> > checker. I found that the generated docx is in compatibility mode. Word for 
>>> > Mac's accessibility checker cannot process that kind of file. If I load the 
>>> > file into Word and then save as a normal docx, the checker will run.
>>> >
>>> > Is there a less inconvenient way to get the generated output into the 
>>> > normal docx mode? I would like to get the final output by running a shell 
>>> > script on the Markdown input.
>>> >
>>> > The issues I have found so far in my limited tests are warnings about 
>>> > insufficient color contrasts and sequences of blank characters. Some of 
>>> > these (e.g., colors in section headers and hyperlinks) seem to be fixable 
>>> > by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The warnings 
>>> > associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more problematic.
>>> >
>>> > -- 
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/677959fb-29b8-4eaa-837f-c53e5ea5ab51%40googlegroups.com.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/yh480k1rwk6r2b.fsf%40johnmacfarlane.net.
>> 
>> -- 
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>
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Re: Accessibility of Generated Docx

[mb21]

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You can try:

pandoc --pdf-engine=context -M pdfa -o output.pdf

see the description of pdfa in 
https://pandoc.org/MANUAL.html#variables-for-context

Maybe the pdfa part is not even needed, since the default pandoc context 
template includes \setuptagging[state=start]



On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 7:54:29 PM UTC+2, John MacFarlane wrote:
>
>
> You can try using alternative paths to pdf (--pdf-engine supports 
> a number of options, some via HTML, and they may do better for 
> accessibility, I'm not sure). 
>
> Conrad Cunningham <hcc.o...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org <javascript:>> writes: 
>
> > Thanks. 
> > 
> > It is useful that Pandoc’s docx writer generates files in compatibility 
> mode and that the generated documents are accessible. 
> > 
> > Given my institution’s push to make all public documents accessible, I 
> am looking at convenient (automatable) ways to get my Pandoc-flavored 
> course documents into accessible PDFs and other accessible formats. 
> Unfortunately, mLaTeX-to-PDF support for PDF/UA seems “not ready for prime 
> time”. 
> > 
> >> On Sep 13, 2019, at 3:00 PM, BP Jonsson <bpjo...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org 
> <javascript:>> wrote: 
> >> 
> >> I believe compatibility mode is helpful also when opening docx files in 
> LibreOffice. At least even quite large files produced by Pandoc open much 
> faster than some DOCX files people send me. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Den fre 13 sep. 2019 19:31John MacFarlane <j...-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org 
> <javascript:>> skrev: 
> >>> 
> >>> We use compatibility mode so that the docx pandoc produces 
> >>> will be readable by the widest variety of Word versions (even 
> >>> quite old ones). 
> >>> 
> >>> This isn't itself an issue with accessibility; it's just an 
> >>> issue with the Mac's checker I guess, and I don't think we should 
> >>> modify pandoc just to work around that. 
> >>> 
> >>> We could change pandoc to avoid compatibility mode, but that 
> >>> would mean our docxs can't be read by older Word versions. 
> >>> At some point it may be worth having this conversation. 
> >>> 
> >>> In principle we could have a flag to generate either 
> >>> compatibility mode or not, but that adds a lot of complexity 
> >>> for little gain. 
> >>> 
> >>> > by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The 
> warnings 
> >>> > associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more 
> problematic. 
> >>> 
> >>> The code coloring is affected by the --highlight-style option. We 
> >>> provide several styles out of the box, including a monochrome 
> >>> style which is very high contrast. You can also create and use 
> >>> your own style. See the docs. 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Conrad Cunningham <hcc.o...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org <javascript:>> writes: 
> >>> 
> >>> > I use pandoc to convert Pandoc-flavored Markdown documents to HTML 
> >>> > (primarily), Word docx, PDF (via LaTeX), etc. I am currently using 
> pandoc 
> >>> > 2.7.3. Microsoft Word for Mac 16.16.14, and MacTeX 2019 on MacOS 
> 10.14.6 
> >>> > (Mojave). 
> >>> > 
> >>> > According to the tests I have run using the WebAIM WAVE tool, the 
> >>> > accessibility of the generated HTML is reasonable. (I need to give 
> some 
> >>> > attention to places in the Markdown input where I use tables and alt 
> text.) 
> >>> > 
> >>> > For the generated docx, I am using Word for Mac's builtin 
> accessibility 
> >>> > checker. I found that the generated docx is in compatibility mode. 
> Word for 
> >>> > Mac's accessibility checker cannot process that kind of file. If I 
> load the 
> >>> > file into Word and then save as a normal docx, the checker will run. 
> >>> > 
> >>> > Is there a less inconvenient way to get the generated output into 
> the 
> >>> > normal docx mode? I would like to get the final output by running a 
> shell 
> >>> > script on the Markdown input. 
> >>> > 
> >>> > The issues I have found so far in my limited tests are warnings 
> about 
> >>> > insufficient color contrasts and sequences of blank characters. Some 
> of 
> >>> > these (e.g., colors in section headers and hyperlinks) seem to be 
> fixable 
> >>> > by using a custom reference document with modified styles. The 
> warnings 
> >>> > associated with code blocks, highlighting, etc., seem more 
> problematic. 
> >>> > 
> >>> > -- 
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> Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. 
> >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
> send an email to pandoc-...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org <javascript:>. 
> >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/677959fb-29b8-4eaa-837f-c53e5ea5ab51%40googlegroups.com. 
>
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
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>
> >> 
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>
> > 
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>
>

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Re: Accessibility of Generated Docx

[Conrad Cunningham]

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Thanks. 

I tried most of the pdf-engine options on a small test file. The context 
engine seemed to work well according to the Tingtun pdf checker, but the 
PAVE checker seemed to find more issues. (Any suggestions on free pdf 
checkers?) 

However, when I processed a couple of longer chapters of my notes that 
formatted with Pandoc-flavored Markdown, the tex processor died with an 
input error. I am not sure yet what is causing that to occur.

On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 5:10:24 AM UTC-5, mb21 wrote:
>
> You can try:
>
> pandoc --pdf-engine=context -M pdfa -o output.pdf
>
> see the description of pdfa in 
> https://pandoc.org/MANUAL.html#variables-for-context
>
> Maybe the pdfa part is not even needed, since the default pandoc context 
> template includes \setuptagging[state=start]
>

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