CSL for natbib

CSL for natbib

[Zelphir Kaltstahl]

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As far as I know the `--natbib` switch in command line calls to Pandoc only 
works properly when converting from markdown to tex but not from markdown 
to PDF (correct me if I'm wrong). When used with output PDF, it will only 
show question marks as citation keys in the text of the PDF. Somewhere I 
read, that no efforts for correcting this will be made, because (if I 
remember the reason correctly) by that point the user is assumed to have 
their own build procedure, which at some point includes manually using 
bibtex and that would make it right.

Since I am not a pro with all the latex stuff and want to keep things 
simple, without multiple manually triggered compilation processes, which 
yield a hundred confusing warnings, I am searching for a CSL file, which 
simulates the natbib style. I read that CSL is a bit lacking in 
abbreviating author names, but maybe there is a workaround or something I 
don't know about.

So is there any way, by which I can get the same citation style with 
pandoc-citeproc as I'd get with converting from markdown to tex using the 
natbib switch and then some multiple compilations and bibtex using process? 
If there is not, is there another easy one-pandoc-command-and-be-done way 
to achieve natbib formatting of citations?

(I have a perfectly fine compiling markdown source and a wonderful pandoc 
template in which I invested many hours already, and there is no warning at 
all when I use pandoc-citeproc to compile in one pandoc command, but there 
is a LOAD of warnings, if I use natbib switch, then bibtex and then xelatex 
twice! I don't see the reason why and it would probably take many hours to 
get it running without any errors or warnings. It is simply not my current 
compilation process and I'd dislike having to go that way.)

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Re: CSL for natbib

[John MacFarlane]

+++ Zelphir Kaltstahl [Nov 06 16 12:24 ]:
>   As far as I know the `--natbib` switch in command line calls to Pandoc
>   only works properly when converting from markdown to tex but not from
>   markdown to PDF (correct me if I'm wrong).

Right, because pandoc does not attempt to call bibtex or
biber when creating a PDF.  If you want to do this, generate
latex from pandoc and process it as you like.  You might
look into latexmk as a way of making this simpler.

>   which yield a hundred confusing warnings, I am searching for a CSL
>   file, which simulates the natbib style. I read that CSL is a bit
>   lacking in abbreviating author names, but maybe there is a workaround
>   or something I don't know about.

natbib offers several different styles, so I assume you mean
the default?  And which is that?
https://www.sharelatex.com/learn/Natbib_bibliography_styles

You can search for CSL styles here:
https://www.zotero.org/styles
You can restrict to author-date styles.
Then hover over each link and you'll see a preview.

It's also pretty easy to modify things like the brace style
in an existing style.

Re: CSL for natbib

[Zelphir Kaltstahl]

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Right, because pandoc does not attempt to call bibtex or 
> biber when creating a PDF.  If you want to do this, generate 
> latex from pandoc and process it as you like.  You might 
> look into latexmk as a way of making this simpler. 
>

I think you're suggesting to produce latex with pandoc and then use latexmk 
to compile the PDF -- Did I understand correctly?
 

> natbib offers several different styles, so I assume you mean 
> the default?  And which is that? 
> https://www.sharelatex.com/learn/Natbib_bibliography_styles 
>
> You can search for CSL styles here: 
> https://www.zotero.org/styles 
> You can restrict to author-date styles. 
> Then hover over each link and you'll see a preview. 
>
> It's also pretty easy to modify things like the brace style 
> in an existing style. 
>

Yes, I've already been exploring many citation styles there, but none has 
abbreviated author names for example only the initials of the first and 
last names of authors =( That's why I wrote about possible limitations of 
the CSL format. But I could be wrong about that. I also played with with 
CSL visual editor already, but could not find any way to abbreviate author 
names in the in-text citation key.
Then I thought maybe here someone knows how to use CSL for this.

I'll take a look at latexmk and see if I can get it running, thanks.

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Re: CSL for natbib

[Zelphir Kaltstahl]

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>
> natbib offers several different styles, so I assume you mean 
> the default?  And which is that? 
> https://www.sharelatex.com/learn/Natbib_bibliography_styles 
> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sharelatex.com%2Flearn%2FNatbib_bibliography_styles&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNF3MULzNX6OqzmK9DqqxvythuayFA> 
>

I am a bit confused by the different styles right now. I thought `alphadin` 
was one of the natbib styles. Maybe I am looking for the wrong thing here, 
but I don't know yet. I am looking for a style which has something like 
this:

... (stuff) ...

Text Text Text Text Text [AB1990 p. 160].

... (some chapters and their contents) ...

REFERENCES CHAPTER

[AB1990]: full description.

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Re: CSL for natbib

[John MacFarlane]

There are CSL experts who sometimes read this group, so
maybe someone will help.

I can tell you for sure that CSL supports author name
initialization.  See the docs here
http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/specification.html#name

Re: CSL for natbib

[nickbart1980-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w]

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There seems to be exactly one CSL style that uses labels: “DIN 1505-2 
(alphanumeric, German)” (see https://www.zotero.org/styles?format=label).

On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 11:11:32 AM UTC, John MacFarlane wrote:
>
> There are CSL experts who sometimes read this group, so 
> maybe someone will help. 
>
> I can tell you for sure that CSL supports author name 
> initialization.  See the docs here 
> http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/specification.html#name 
>
>

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Re: CSL for natbib

[Zelphir Kaltstahl]

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This looks like indeed like something I could use. It seems to limit the 
length of the author name to 4 characters and even if that is not the same 
as only initials, it does make the whole citation key in text short and it 
at least always includes the last name (abbreviated or not).

Thanks, I'll try it later : )

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Re: CSL for natbib

[Zelphir Kaltstahl]

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I found out, that pandoc-citeproc does not work with the following style: 
https://www.zotero.org/styles/din-1505-2-alphanumeric

The square brackets simply remain empty. As soon as I switch to another CSL 
style in the command used to invoke pandoc, for example 
https://www.zotero.org/styles/chicago-author-date it works again.

I am not sure whether this is an error in the CSL definition, which is 
tolerated by the zotero website (because it is still showing text in the 
brackets in the JS popup for that style) or pandoc-citeproc simply cannot 
handle this style.

I think I need another style, which abbreviates names and sorts them 
alphabetically in the table of references.

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