* Proposed new list type @ 2021-05-04 14:29 Milan Bracke [not found] ` <4e936aa2-41d6-4d68-ba5a-bea916754922n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Milan Bracke @ 2021-05-04 14:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: pandoc-discuss [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1457 bytes --] Hi, Both docx and HTML have a list type named "none", where no marker is shown. However, Pandoc doesn't support these types of lists and will put numbers instead. See the attached docx file for an example. We would like to add a ListNumberStyle called None in pandoc-types and use it in the docx reader and HTML writer. For HTML5, we can't use the "type" attribute so we will have to fall back on the "list-style-type" CSS as described here: https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_ol_type.asp, and for docx the change seems simple since all the types can be set with w:numFmt. We'd prefer not to implement the usage of the new type in the other readers and writers yet. (We'll of course avoid breaking them.) We only need it in the two mentioned above and we don't master all the file types in Pandoc. Is this OK and should we make an issue to track the progress in the other readers and writers when people implement the new type there? Do you have any feedback or objections? If there are no objections, we'll make a pull request soon. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/4e936aa2-41d6-4d68-ba5a-bea916754922n%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1791 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: list_without_markers.docx --] [-- Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document, Size: 13049 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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* Re: Proposed new list type [not found] ` <4e936aa2-41d6-4d68-ba5a-bea916754922n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> @ 2021-05-04 17:39 ` John MacFarlane [not found] ` <m2mtta1jr7.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: John MacFarlane @ 2021-05-04 17:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Milan Bracke, pandoc-discuss I guess I do have objections to features that get implemented in just a couple of formats, leaving the work of implementing them in others to other people. There's also a question whether it makes sense to support this kind of list -- that depends on whether it has a reasonable rendering in enough of the formats we support. (Particularly in Markdown, which is supposed to be expressive enough for everything in the AST, with the current exception of some of the new table features.) What about parsing these docx lists as just lists of regular paragraphs? Then they'll render pretty well in every output format. Milan Bracke <milan.bracke-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes: > Hi, > > Both docx and HTML have a list type named "none", where no marker is shown. > However, Pandoc doesn't support these types of lists and will put numbers > instead. See the attached docx file for an example. > > We would like to add a ListNumberStyle called None in pandoc-types and use > it in > the docx reader and HTML writer. For HTML5, we can't use the "type" > attribute so > we will have to fall back on the "list-style-type" CSS as described here: > https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_ol_type.asp, and for docx the change > seems > simple since all the types can be set with w:numFmt. > > We'd prefer not to implement the usage of the new type in the other readers > and > writers yet. (We'll of course avoid breaking them.) We only need it in the > two > mentioned above and we don't master all the file types in Pandoc. Is this > OK and > should we make an issue to track the progress in the other readers and > writers > when people implement the new type there? > > Do you have any feedback or objections? If there are no objections, we'll > make > a pull request soon. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/4e936aa2-41d6-4d68-ba5a-bea916754922n%40googlegroups.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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* Re: Proposed new list type [not found] ` <m2mtta1jr7.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org> @ 2021-05-11 14:04 ` Milan Bracke [not found] ` <11e20690-21cc-4287-81b0-e5f3e191cf1bn-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Milan Bracke @ 2021-05-11 14:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: pandoc-discuss [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3733 bytes --] Hi, Thanks for your feedback, and sorry for taking a while to respond. Your objections are very reasonable and parsing these lists as regular paragraphs is a decent alternative, but it also has its drawbacks. So I came up with a third solution. The main drawback was that these lists without markers are often used to add paragraphs in a list item without visually adding a new list element or ending the list. By using paragraphs, we would visually end the list. My solution to this is to add the list items without markers as paragraphs to the last item of the list immediately before if there is one. In the other cases we propose to just use paragraphs as you suggested. I have attached a docx file and an HTML file to demonstrate both cases and how they would be rendered with my solution. What are your thoughts on this solution? If you think it's good I'll send a pull request either Friday or in two weeks. On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 7:39:23 PM UTC+2 John MacFarlane wrote: > > I guess I do have objections to features that get implemented > in just a couple of formats, leaving the work of implementing > them in others to other people. > > There's also a question whether it makes sense to support > this kind of list -- that depends on whether it has a reasonable > rendering in enough of the formats we support. (Particularly > in Markdown, which is supposed to be expressive enough for > everything in the AST, with the current exception of some of > the new table features.) > > What about parsing these docx lists as just lists of regular > paragraphs? Then they'll render pretty well in every output > format. > > Milan Bracke <milan....-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes: > > > Hi, > > > > Both docx and HTML have a list type named "none", where no marker is > shown. > > However, Pandoc doesn't support these types of lists and will put numbers > > instead. See the attached docx file for an example. > > > > We would like to add a ListNumberStyle called None in pandoc-types and > use > > it in > > the docx reader and HTML writer. For HTML5, we can't use the "type" > > attribute so > > we will have to fall back on the "list-style-type" CSS as described here: > > https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_ol_type.asp, and for docx the change > > seems > > simple since all the types can be set with w:numFmt. > > > > We'd prefer not to implement the usage of the new type in the other > readers > > and > > writers yet. (We'll of course avoid breaking them.) We only need it in > the > > two > > mentioned above and we don't master all the file types in Pandoc. Is > this > > OK and > > should we make an issue to track the progress in the other readers and > > writers > > when people implement the new type there? > > > > Do you have any feedback or objections? If there are no objections, > we'll > > make > > a pull request soon. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/4e936aa2-41d6-4d68-ba5a-bea916754922n%40googlegroups.com > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/11e20690-21cc-4287-81b0-e5f3e191cf1bn%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 5303 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: desired_output.html --] [-- Type: text/html, Size: 312 bytes --] [-- Attachment #3: list_without_markers.docx --] [-- Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document, Size: 13414 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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* Re: Proposed new list type [not found] ` <11e20690-21cc-4287-81b0-e5f3e191cf1bn-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> @ 2021-05-25 13:20 ` Milan Bracke 2021-05-25 16:49 ` John MacFarlane 1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Milan Bracke @ 2021-05-25 13:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: pandoc-discuss [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4048 bytes --] Hi, This thread seems to have been forgotten. What do you think about my last proposal? On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 4:04:45 PM UTC+2 Milan Bracke wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks for your feedback, and sorry for taking a while to respond. > > Your objections are very reasonable and parsing these lists as regular > paragraphs is a decent alternative, but it also has its drawbacks. So I > came up > with a third solution. The main drawback was that these lists without > markers > are often used to add paragraphs in a list item without visually adding a > new > list element or ending the list. By using paragraphs, we would visually > end the > list. My solution to this is to add the list items without markers as > paragraphs to the last item of the list immediately before if there is > one. In > the other cases we propose to just use paragraphs as you suggested. > > I have attached a docx file and an HTML file to demonstrate both cases and > how > they would be rendered with my solution. > > What are your thoughts on this solution? If you think it's good I'll send a > pull request either Friday or in two weeks. > On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 7:39:23 PM UTC+2 John MacFarlane wrote: > >> >> I guess I do have objections to features that get implemented >> in just a couple of formats, leaving the work of implementing >> them in others to other people. >> >> There's also a question whether it makes sense to support >> this kind of list -- that depends on whether it has a reasonable >> rendering in enough of the formats we support. (Particularly >> in Markdown, which is supposed to be expressive enough for >> everything in the AST, with the current exception of some of >> the new table features.) >> >> What about parsing these docx lists as just lists of regular >> paragraphs? Then they'll render pretty well in every output >> format. >> >> Milan Bracke <milan....-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > Both docx and HTML have a list type named "none", where no marker is >> shown. >> > However, Pandoc doesn't support these types of lists and will put >> numbers >> > instead. See the attached docx file for an example. >> > >> > We would like to add a ListNumberStyle called None in pandoc-types and >> use >> > it in >> > the docx reader and HTML writer. For HTML5, we can't use the "type" >> > attribute so >> > we will have to fall back on the "list-style-type" CSS as described >> here: >> > https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_ol_type.asp, and for docx the >> change >> > seems >> > simple since all the types can be set with w:numFmt. >> > >> > We'd prefer not to implement the usage of the new type in the other >> readers >> > and >> > writers yet. (We'll of course avoid breaking them.) We only need it in >> the >> > two >> > mentioned above and we don't master all the file types in Pandoc. Is >> this >> > OK and >> > should we make an issue to track the progress in the other readers and >> > writers >> > when people implement the new type there? >> > >> > Do you have any feedback or objections? If there are no objections, >> we'll >> > make >> > a pull request soon. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/4e936aa2-41d6-4d68-ba5a-bea916754922n%40googlegroups.com. >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/cbd38158-110b-4ecb-8fa4-ee87f1b886e5n%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 5713 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposed new list type [not found] ` <11e20690-21cc-4287-81b0-e5f3e191cf1bn-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> 2021-05-25 13:20 ` Milan Bracke @ 2021-05-25 16:49 ` John MacFarlane [not found] ` <m2czte21xq.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org> 1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: John MacFarlane @ 2021-05-25 16:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Milan Bracke, pandoc-discuss > with a third solution. The main drawback was that these lists without > markers > are often used to add paragraphs in a list item without visually adding a > new > list element or ending the list. By using paragraphs, we would visually end > the > list. My solution to this is to add the list items without markers as > paragraphs to the last item of the list immediately before if there is one. I don't really like this, because it modifies the structure, and pandoc is about preserving structure. Conceptually, these items aren't children of the last list item with a marker, even they render similarly. Besides, what if the entire list consists of these unmarked items, and there isn't a marked item to put them under? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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* Re: Proposed new list type [not found] ` <m2czte21xq.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org> @ 2021-05-26 8:40 ` Milan Bracke 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Milan Bracke @ 2021-05-26 8:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: pandoc-discuss [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1534 bytes --] OK, I understand. I'm still wondering whether interpreting these lists as paragraphs would be an improvement over the current situation. It also breaks the structure to some extent. In any case, someone who wants to render these lists correctly will have to add a custom style. On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 6:50:08 PM UTC+2 John MacFarlane wrote: > > > with a third solution. The main drawback was that these lists without > > markers > > are often used to add paragraphs in a list item without visually adding > a > > new > > list element or ending the list. By using paragraphs, we would visually > end > > the > > list. My solution to this is to add the list items without markers as > > paragraphs to the last item of the list immediately before if there is > one. > > I don't really like this, because it modifies the structure, and > pandoc is about preserving structure. Conceptually, these items > aren't children of the last list item with a marker, even they > render similarly. Besides, what if the entire list consists > of these unmarked items, and there isn't a marked item to put > them under? > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/3b5da2fc-5a6e-46b0-a248-3070e754382en%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2139 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2021-05-26 8:40 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2021-05-04 14:29 Proposed new list type Milan Bracke [not found] ` <4e936aa2-41d6-4d68-ba5a-bea916754922n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> 2021-05-04 17:39 ` John MacFarlane [not found] ` <m2mtta1jr7.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org> 2021-05-11 14:04 ` Milan Bracke [not found] ` <11e20690-21cc-4287-81b0-e5f3e191cf1bn-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> 2021-05-25 13:20 ` Milan Bracke 2021-05-25 16:49 ` John MacFarlane [not found] ` <m2czte21xq.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org> 2021-05-26 8:40 ` Milan Bracke
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