From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/16059 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Kolen Cheung Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: Markdown, tables and CSV Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 02:39:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <047d7b86ebe83c062b05332eab9b@google.com> <20BF19CB-A2B0-4B19-A749-D750CDD89736@martinfenner.org> <78b88082-90cb-4ec8-ab45-9e2be24d6dc4@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_81_855580518.1479465555080" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1479465557 21722 195.159.176.226 (18 Nov 2016 10:39:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 10:39:17 +0000 (UTC) To: pandoc-discuss Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBCS252WXTEIBBU5UXPAQKGQEQBCOINA-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Fri Nov 18 11:39:13 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-oi0-f58.google.com ([209.85.218.58]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c7gZc-00053x-V6 for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Nov 2016 11:39:13 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-oi0-f58.google.com with SMTP id 128sf34100470oih.0 for ; Fri, 18 Nov 2016 02:39:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=sender:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=56xIKTIHReisQAmq2Rpcu2u07Oci3IO+Pra7I/G6UFs=; b=Rce8MWxvxbofiuEKnKbeDGLZzWY1f3TvVAaNktUEM4pGQZAreqKjFCnALa3eI3To6Y RHB5iU89KwXkg8mpn+LRUDInYHk7jDFMCSceFYtbi7GCZ4twrzT/nD8StIVHfBzVxFfI Wgo/bcfSF2Mh8ReSaut/260FoS/f8aQjZfssq8FWeNzn2+vRvVyKIQcCDC6QJ2VEVYXL TDSRnssj7KNzjWEW+cSAwWtZbH7dsyL0BZMOM/1Vk7kJS064khtzfsCGmp0ENEatPheJ JurZserXGd2h8kO1V2bWTtUNHFltjkZ+J6T3MTZihsY2LaxrkrqJnaEobCrnvOUIhSL2 h4xA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=56xIKTIHReisQAmq2Rpcu2u07Oci3IO+Pra7I/G6UFs=; b=NdHnPzpR4zNNim3xFdkVWIgnfufUqLsemVbWXinbxvij6kyyQ83Z0TYi1DsQlwjkEJ Mo7Rk4D5eTD4lhgspF8xAVLGsGe0oYTCJn7Zx7FPR/x2i553cuHV2fVakodkTZ/SzYi/ HfQqu0puFoMMEMdet2Xp/t0T/kEgymy1xjxjSko6aEnFlNnfHvraNES6j/GJYRO0PQBa 7mGJex/HWI4aTilZLU8SWiMAdTNgyO4HACyIN14ndGhut78GaGvIsTdHHP8oT1GNq0G0 mL0vAO+SIzYuCfI0J+thZVmSB7DtSX4KtOopAy3PFnXVsjfBpsSHQEspOYmdWA27SxM7 F6Qw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=56xIKTIHReisQAmq2Rpcu2u07Oci3IO+Pra7I/G6UFs=; b=i9VSalzxVWTWVOcnLa9a6GbKEBuBIgQ1q2n52u77QAzWj0Zm+QKemv859XLtFBElnK z3god9vyCM+5+js0QRvtpPu20oJIyNjQ+p0cCaT6griEeyFDOv9CysJkEBclIB1SaAu4 XN6YTTufamFequoSs8TM7TuI4Xyj44VUEk6JTWFz3BEv26j1fXwG1e0M88tFwhZZb/bY I/eY6v09w9wbJJbhV7cXfAuHtZ6f0OYeeu+HANOCZGJz/oJXRPp7c9V2oObPGFzA1ovJ ghFh7FevW9p+wh+VMqeYkCsPeqGChmNo4VyO2jrsxULHRGLkuGvP+gJkJtcTrf2kWqoj uzow== Original-Sender: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC0238jODQN1UHfBsXKoUYkwDKVuoyP15jktlv5NN5BXXg8+tGr1Hb4AghiJtTKVEeg== X-Received: by 10.157.39.129 with SMTP id c1mr746231otb.15.1479465556194; Fri, 18 Nov 2016 02:39:16 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 10.157.36.65 with SMTP id p59ls6518625ota.40.gmail; Fri, 18 Nov 2016 02:39:15 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.157.11.248 with SMTP id 111mr752600oth.4.1479465555619; Fri, 18 Nov 2016 02:39:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <78b88082-90cb-4ec8-ab45-9e2be24d6dc4-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> X-Original-Sender: christian.kolen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.text.pandoc:16059 Archived-At: ------=_Part_81_855580518.1479465555080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The panflute filter I wrote on csv-tables is almost finishing, I wrote exte= nsive testing today, and probably I would submit it to PyPI tomorrow. Some = of the unique features is auto width and talb-width, design not to fail on = crappy source (following pandoc's practice). I decided to call it pantable = as a wordplay on pandoc, and means a subset of pandoc, and probably will su= pport xlsx or html_tables with slight modification. I understand that "yet another pandoc csv table filter" seems not a good id= ea. And believe me, I strongly believe in streamlining pandoc experience, a= nd hope to integrate filters to work together in harmony. So may be let me = explain why I wrote mine: I've been considering writing (and re-writing) filters in haskwell or pytho= n with panflute. Haskell almost won me over with the performance and tigher= interaction with pandoc. But, (besides learning curve on picking up Haskel= l) the main difficulties I have around haskell filters is distribution, bas= ically only those who have programming and command-line background can hand= le it. This might not be a big deal for some situation. But for the project= I'm working on, it is extremely important. My department hired me this sem= ester to rewrite one of the introductory physics course workbooks. What the= y ask for is the "traditional" way of writing workbooks. The old sources we= re partly Word partly TeX. Last update is about a decade ago. And they hire= one person for a semester to finish the job and that's it. So the quality = of the workbook is, as you can imagine, sub-par. But my idea is to: 1. turn it into GitHub repo, openning it up for all GSIs teaching those cou= rses for download and edit. (open-source is under consideration, but I can = guess it is not their priority even if they don't object to the idea) 2. use of pandoc, rather than pure LaTeX, so that multiple output can be si= multaneously targetted. It also lower the barrier for any GSIs to contribut= e (many new graduate students do not know LaTeX) All these is supposed to accerlerate development, partly by platform and pa= rtly by lowering the barrier (technological, mental, etc.). The last thing = I want is to make the build process daunting or fragile (cabal dependency h= ell?) I have suggested on the first meeting to use pandoc, and they amost immedia= tely rejected it. But since I need to use pandoc to convert the doc (not do= cx! i.e. indirectly), I demostrated the capability of pandoc and what it is= . I prepared it to be an intermediate process only. And in my design of the= makefile, I prepare to nuke any existance of pandoc and leave a way to exp= ort the project in pure LaTeX only. However, "they" are convinced to use p= andoc markdown as the source after seeing what it is capable of. Even after we settled for using pandoc, there's still a lot of uncertaintie= s. The "they" I refered to who are convinced to adopt pandoc, are fired dea= l to budget cut. Who knows who is to take over and what he will think about= pandoc (probably will be an old senior staff, used to old tools). And also= because of the budget cut, they probably are not hiring me to continue to = develop the workbook (I got teaching offer instead). (a hint on the poor (i= n both sense) university that got so much budget cut since 2009, it is the = same as pandoc's author's university.) That's the primary reason I've been thinking about the pandoc ecosystem and= how to lower the barrier to use filters. The last thing I want to see is w= hoever the future hired person to work on the project nuke the pandoc sourc= e (and yes, I will provide the "nuke button"). (I even afraid they will nuk= e my makefile and the whole build process that I keep perfecting for weeks = to handle single source to develop multiple series of workbooks. You know, = I can imagine someone picking it up and say, "What's that makefile? Let's d= ouble click the tex and build in TeXShop" (or even worse convert it to LyX)= .) P.S. However, the situation of pandoc filters might get brighter soon. Ther= e's some sort of pandoc package manager in development (so far panflute onl= y). And I have a vague idea on a pre-build big binaries to include some of = the useful filters (including those in Haskell). Using TeX terminologies, t= hey are something like tlmgr and texlive distribution. I personally believe= that these are very important for the longevity of the tool we all loves a= bout: they are all about lower barrier, easier to use, easier to write filt= ers (I believe addressed by panflute), zero maintenance, easier configurati= on, even GUI (say, Atom packages). (Right now pandoc seems to be for "hacke= rs" only.) And let's not to mention ARM and appstore compatibility (podoc s= eems to have limited capability to parse pandoc in Python and has an appsto= re friendly license). --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pandoc-discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To post to this group, send email to pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= pandoc-discuss/d847d3af-73fd-41d1-96e8-2c3a0dc9d70a%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_81_855580518.1479465555080--