Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)

[Scot Mcphee <scot.mcphee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>]

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No it makes no sense. Zotero and Mendeley and Papers don’t care about my document, just as Bibdesk doesn’t. They don’ even know it exists and happily fulfil all their functional requirements without it. That’s because Zotero and Mendeley and Papers themselves don’t have anything to do with inserting bibliography into documents. They may ship with additional components that enable this to occur, but this isn’t a core function of the tool itself, and one that is not used by all their users.

That is my material point.


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Scot Mcphee
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From: Rintze Zelle rintze.zelle-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
Reply: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
Date: 17 April 2014 at 00:56:45  
To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
Subject:  Re: Suppressing bibliography (Was: [xbiblio-devel] season/issue in chicago-fullnote-bibliography?)  

(sorry, but I don't really understand your point in the first three sentences)

Just to explain how this works in Zotero and Mendeley. Since word processor documents aren't very structured, Zotero and Mendeley both rely on the user to indicate *where* to insert the bibliography. As long as the user doesn't indicate the bibliography location in the document, there is no bibliography, even if the user already inserted citations in the document. Does that make sense?

Rintze

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:45:42 PM UTC-4, Scot Mcphee wrote:
How does Mendeley, or Zotero for that matter (only slightly familiar with Zotero), care if I have a bibliography in my document or not? It's the source of the bibliographic information, not the thing that contains the bibliography. It's a fail at the domain level to insist on Bibliographies in CSL when it's optional. There are journals that require note-style inserts of references and no Bibliography. That's the reality that the tools have to conform to. Unless there is some piece of the picture that I don't follow properly.

regards
Scot.



Scot Mcphee. 
Computer programmer. Classics PhD.
p +61 412 957414
e scot.mcphee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
w http://autonomous.org/



On 16 April 2014 02:19, Rintze Zelle <rintze...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 11:53:33 AM UTC-4, Joseph wrote:
On 04/15/2014 11:37 AM, Rintze Zelle wrote:
> they had a bibliography defined. Since Zotero relies on explicit
> insertion of a bibliography, the CSL style variant without a
> bibliography was deemed redundant and removed from the style
> repository. I'd like to keep it that way, since having more styles
> makes the repository harder to maintain. See
> https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/10878/styles-for-inclusion-in-20-final/?Focus=52220#Comment_52220
> for the relevant discussion.

Thank you for the explanation. I'll note that for folks that are using
an app that doesn't provide for this (like pandoc, presently) that means
the individual user has to maintain these no-bib style sheets
individually, which is even worse...

I realize that. If there really isn't a way to suppress a bibliography in pandoc, we could revisit our position. That said, we already have 10 CMoS variants ( https://zotero.org/styles?q=chicago%2016th ), and having even more is also confusing to users, especially if the with-bib and without-bib versions behave the same for users of Zotero, Mendeley, and the like, with the exception that the no-bib version won't be able to generate a bibliography.

Rintze
 
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