text like "circa" and "BCE" in BibTeX year field

text like "circa" and "BCE" in BibTeX year field

[Steve Petersen]

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Hi Pandoc experts, thanks again in advance for help.

Basically from what I can tell, BibTeX can handle year fields like

year = {circa 350 BCE}

(if, suppose, one were citing Aristotle). But I can't seem to get this to 
work in pandoc 2.2.1.

year = {-350}

will cite as "350BC", which is close ... but is there an easy way to get 
the more specific citation?

Thanks again,
Steve

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Re: text like "circa" and "BCE" in BibTeX year field

[Joseph Reagle]

On 6/25/18 4:57 PM, Steve Petersen wrote:
> will cite as "350BC", which is close ... but is there an easy way to
> get the more specific citation?

I don't know the answer, but this issue might be of help:

https://github.com/jgm/pandoc-citeproc/issues/240

Re: text like "circa" and "BCE" in BibTeX year field

['Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss]

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If it’s biblatex (rather than bibtex) you’re using as a biblio db input format (either with pandoc-citeproc, or by running a latex engine and biber on a .tex file calling the biblatex package), try

date = {-0349~}

For details, see the biblatex manual (in v3.9, the relevant section is “2.3.8 Date and Time Specifications”).

As to “BCE”, if using pandoc-citeproc, you’d have to include something like

<term name="ad"> CE</term>
<term name="bc"> BCE</term>

in your CSL style file.

https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/issues/124

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On June 25, 2018 8:57 PM, Steve Petersen <spetey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hi Pandoc experts, thanks again in advance for help.
>
> Basically from what I can tell, BibTeX can handle year fields like
>
> year ={circa 350 BCE}
>
> (if, suppose, one were citing Aristotle). But I can't seem to get this to work in pandoc 2.2.1.
>
> year ={-350}
>
> will cite as "350BC", which is close ... but is there an easy way to get the more specific citation?
>
> Thanks again,
> Steve
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
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Re: text like "circa" and "BCE" in BibTeX year field

[Steve Petersen]

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Thanks for the help - I had found the page you pointed me to, Joseph, but 
didn't find my solution on skimming.

Alas the '{-0349~}' version doesn't work in either LaTeX or pandoc. (It 
gives "Aristotle (-0349)" in LaTeX, and "n.d." in pandoc.)

I should confess I understand very little of citeproc / csl. Digging around 
it looks like it uses 'chicago-author-date.csl' as default, but I didn't 
see a natural place to add the lines suggested.

For what it's worth, I also noticed LaTeX does not handle "{circa 350 BCE}" 
all that well; though it shows up fine in the bibliography, the inline 
citation shows as "Aristotle (BCE)".

Thanks again for any further thoughts.

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Re: text like "circa" and "BCE" in BibTeX year field

[pandoc-only-Mmb7MZpHnFY]

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From an academic viewpoint, you shouldn't have this problem at all, since the go-to sources for the ancient philosophers are editions from more recent centuries. (Me, I still consider it odd to see these recent dates in the bibliographies, but that's just me.)
Unless, of course, you are discussing specific fragments. That might pose different challenges for bibliography tools.

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Re: text like "circa" and "BCE" in BibTeX year field

['Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss]

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I don’t know what you have been trying (as always, some MWEs would have been immensely helpful), but for me pandoc works as expected:

With the following `test-date-bce.bib`:

@article{item1,
author = {Doe, Jane},
date = {-0349~},
title = {The Title},
}

running the following script:

pandoc -F pandoc-citeproc -t plain << EOT

Blah blah blah [@item1].

---
# csl: water-sa.csl
bibliography: test-date-bce.bib
reference-section-title: References
...
EOT

outputs the following:

Blah blah blah (Doe 350BC).

REFERENCES

Doe, Jane. 350BC. “The Title.”

(Try uncommenting the water-sa.csl line to see that rendering a term for “circa” is possible, too; this just hasn’t been implemented in the default chicago-author-date.csl and many other styles. You may want to report this as a bug at https://forums.zotero.org/, together with the missing space in front of “BC”. Suggesting the use of “CE/BCE” as default terms might be a good idea, too.)

As to latex, you’d best provide us with an MWE of your own.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On June 27, 2018 6:08 AM, Steve Petersen <spetey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Thanks for the help - I had found the page you pointed me to, Joseph, but didn't find my solution on skimming.
>
> Alas the '{-0349~}' version doesn't work in either LaTeX or pandoc. (It gives "Aristotle (-0349)" in LaTeX, and "n.d." in pandoc.)
>
> I should confess I understand very little of citeproc / csl. Digging around it looks like it uses 'chicago-author-date.csl' as default, but I didn't see a natural place to add the lines suggested.
>
> For what it's worth, I also noticed LaTeX does not handle "{circa 350 BCE}" all that well; though it shows up fine in the bibliography, the inline citation shows as "Aristotle (BCE)".
>
> Thanks again for any further thoughts.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
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Re: text like "circa" and "BCE" in BibTeX year field

[Joost Kremers]

On Wed, Jun 27 2018, Steve Petersen wrote:
> Alas the '{-0349~}' version doesn't work in either LaTeX or 
> pandoc. (It 
> gives "Aristotle (-0349)" in LaTeX, and "n.d." in pandoc.)

That probably means you're using BibTeX, which you really 
shouldn't... BibTeX is old and (AFAIK) unmaintained, at least in 
the sense that it doesn't support modern things such as Unicode / 
utf encodings, etc.

If you want do to bibliographies with LaTeX use biblatex instead. 
Pandoc can output LaTeX code that uses biblatex (use the 
--biblatex option), though it requires that you run latex - biber 
- latex on the output file yourself. With biblatex, `date = 
{-0348~}' will work. (See e.g., Table 5, p. 39 of the biblatex 
manual).

HTH

-- 
Joost Kremers
Life has its moments

Re: text like "circa" and "BCE" in BibTeX year field

[Steve Petersen]

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I suspect those of us who think it's odd to cite as "Aristotle (1995)" are 
in a silent majority. When my editor lets me get away with it I like to 
cite "Aristotle (350 BCE), ... 1995 edition" as a proposed compromise.

On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 5:11:18 AM UTC-4, pando...-Mmb7MZpHnFY@public.gmane.org wrote:
>
> From an academic viewpoint, you shouldn't have this problem at all, since 
> the go-to sources for the ancient philosophers are editions from more 
> recent centuries. (Me, I still consider it odd to see these recent dates in 
> the bibliographies, but that's just me.)
> Unless, of course, you are discussing specific fragments. That might pose 
> different challenges for bibliography tools.

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Re: text like "circa" and "BCE" in BibTeX year field

[Steve Petersen]

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Hmm ... I didn't know that BibTeX was deprecated! It's been fine for me for 
almost a couple decades now ... I guess I grew complacent that I didn't 
need to do any more damn tinkering with style files and such.

I have no `biblatex` command, but apparently I have `biber` with my MacTeX 
package, which from what I googled seems related to BibLaTeX somehow. But I 
can't get even a minimal example to run properly with it. (The minimal 
example 
<https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/13509/biblatex-in-a-nutshell-for-beginners> 
I found online doesn't work - the `\printbibliography` makes an undefined 
control sequence.)

Anyway thanks to the wonder of pandoc, I rarely use straight-up LaTeX these 
days. It sounds like editing the right CSL file in the right place, with 
`year = {-350}` in the bib file, might be the best combination of easy + 
acceptable. Any further thoughts are appreciated - and thanks for your 
patience.

On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 5:45:23 AM UTC-4, Joost wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 27 2018, Steve Petersen wrote: 
> > Alas the '{-0349~}' version doesn't work in either LaTeX or 
> > pandoc. (It 
> > gives "Aristotle (-0349)" in LaTeX, and "n.d." in pandoc.) 
>
> That probably means you're using BibTeX, which you really 
> shouldn't... BibTeX is old and (AFAIK) unmaintained, at least in 
> the sense that it doesn't support modern things such as Unicode / 
> utf encodings, etc. 
>
> If you want do to bibliographies with LaTeX use biblatex instead. 
> Pandoc can output LaTeX code that uses biblatex (use the 
> --biblatex option), though it requires that you run latex - biber 
> - latex on the output file yourself. With biblatex, `date = 
> {-0348~}' will work. (See e.g., Table 5, p. 39 of the biblatex 
> manual). 
>
> HTH 
>
> -- 
> Joost Kremers 
> Life has its moments 
>

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Re: text like "circa" and "BCE" in BibTeX year field

['Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss]

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I don’t know what you have been trying (as always, some MWEs would have been immensely helpful), but for me pandoc works as expected:

With the following `test-date-bce.bib`:

@article{item1,
author = {Doe, Jane},
date = {-0349~},
title = {The Title},
}

running the following script:

pandoc -F pandoc-citeproc -t plain << EOT

Blah blah blah [@item1].

---
# csl: water-sa.csl
bibliography: test-date-bce.bib
reference-section-title: References
...
EOT

outputs the following:

Blah blah blah (Doe 350BC).

REFERENCES

Doe, Jane. 350BC. “The Title.”

(Try uncommenting the water-sa.csl line to see that rendering a term for “circa” is possible, too; this just hasn’t been implemented in the default chicago-author-date.csl and many other styles. You may want to report this as a bug at https://forums.zotero.org/, together with the missing space in front of “BC”. Suggesting the use of “CE/BCE” as default terms might be a good idea, too.)

As to latex, you’d best provide us with an MWE of your own.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On June 27, 2018 6:08 AM, Steve Petersen <spetey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Thanks for the help - I had found the page you pointed me to, Joseph, but didn't find my solution on skimming.
>
> Alas the '{-0349~}' version doesn't work in either LaTeX or pandoc. (It gives "Aristotle (-0349)" in LaTeX, and "n.d." in pandoc.)
>
> I should confess I understand very little of citeproc / csl. Digging around it looks like it uses 'chicago-author-date.csl' as default, but I didn't see a natural place to add the lines suggested.
>
> For what it's worth, I also noticed LaTeX does not handle "{circa 350 BCE}" all that well; though it shows up fine in the bibliography, the inline citation shows as "Aristotle (BCE)".
>
> Thanks again for any further thoughts.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
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