Thoughts on GitHub Discussions?

Thoughts on GitHub Discussions?

[christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org]

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Too early to think about replacing Google Groups here, but I think it would 
be nice to have an alternative to the issue tracker on GitHub directly, 
which might help having less spam on the issue tracker.

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Re: Thoughts on GitHub Discussions?

[John MacFarlane]

"christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org" <christian.kolen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Too early to think about replacing Google Groups here, but I think it would 
> be nice to have an alternative to the issue tracker on GitHub directly, 
> which might help having less spam on the issue tracker.

Isn't it still in beta?

One big drawback is that you would need a GitHub account to
contribute.

By contrast, it's possible to ask a question using this group
without signing up for a new account.  You can even do it by
sending an email.

Re: Thoughts on GitHub Discussions?

[christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org]

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Yes, so as I said it is too early to think about replacing Google Groups. 
It is more of a supplement, especially for those who don't know this Google 
Groups exists and may spam the issue trackers instead.

*May be* it is ok to test run and see how useful it is, *or not* because 
that might causes too much confusions...

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 5:16:57 PM UTC-8 John MacFarlane wrote:

> "christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org" <christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:
>
> > Too early to think about replacing Google Groups here, but I think it 
> would 
> > be nice to have an alternative to the issue tracker on GitHub directly, 
> > which might help having less spam on the issue tracker.
>
> Isn't it still in beta?
>
> One big drawback is that you would need a GitHub account to
> contribute.
>
> By contrast, it's possible to ask a question using this group
> without signing up for a new account. You can even do it by
> sending an email.
>

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Re: Thoughts on GitHub Discussions?

[jmuc...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org]

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Please don’t create more than one place for discussion. I’m happy to do 
either Google groups or a discourse server, but not both.

On Thursday, 10 December 2020 at 22:52:42 UTC-5 christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org wrote:

> Yes, so as I said it is too early to think about replacing Google Groups. 
> It is more of a supplement, especially for those who don't know this Google 
> Groups exists and may spam the issue trackers instead.
>
> *May be* it is ok to test run and see how useful it is, *or not* because 
> that might causes too much confusions...
>
> On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 5:16:57 PM UTC-8 John MacFarlane wrote:
>
>> "christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org" <christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:
>>
>> > Too early to think about replacing Google Groups here, but I think it 
>> would 
>> > be nice to have an alternative to the issue tracker on GitHub directly, 
>> > which might help having less spam on the issue tracker.
>>
>> Isn't it still in beta?
>>
>> One big drawback is that you would need a GitHub account to
>> contribute.
>>
>> By contrast, it's possible to ask a question using this group
>> without signing up for a new account. You can even do it by
>> sending an email.
>>
>

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AW: Thoughts on GitHub Discussions?

[denis.maier-FfwAq0itz3ofv37vnLkPlQ]

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Yes, too many places would be a bad idea.

Von: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org <pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> Im Auftrag von jmuc...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
Gesendet: Freitag, 11. Dezember 2020 17:16
An: pandoc-discuss <pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
Betreff: Re: Thoughts on GitHub Discussions?

Please don’t create more than one place for discussion. I’m happy to do either Google groups or a discourse server, but not both.
On Thursday, 10 December 2020 at 22:52:42 UTC-5 christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org<mailto:christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Yes, so as I said it is too early to think about replacing Google Groups. It is more of a supplement, especially for those who don't know this Google Groups exists and may spam the issue trackers instead.

*May be* it is ok to test run and see how useful it is, *or not* because that might causes too much confusions...
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 5:16:57 PM UTC-8 John MacFarlane wrote:
"christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org<mailto:christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>" <christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org<mailto:christi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>> writes:

> Too early to think about replacing Google Groups here, but I think it would
> be nice to have an alternative to the issue tracker on GitHub directly,
> which might help having less spam on the issue tracker.

Isn't it still in beta?

One big drawback is that you would need a GitHub account to
contribute.

By contrast, it's possible to ask a question using this group
without signing up for a new account. You can even do it by
sending an email.
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Re: Thoughts on GitHub Discussions?

[John MacFarlane]

"jmuc...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org" <jmuccigr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Please don’t create more than one place for discussion. I’m happy to do 
> either Google groups or a discourse server, but not both.

That's my instinct too.  Once the feature is out of Beta, maybe
we could consider it.  But I do see some potential drawbacks:

1) as noted, requires a GitHub login
2) less easy to work with via email, which some may prefer
3) unless there's some way to import the discussion threads from
   a google group, we lose the history on this list (or at least
   it becomes less obvious)

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Re: AW: Thoughts on GitHub Discussions?

[TRS-80]

On 2020-12-11 11:17, denis.maier-FfwAq0itz3ofv37vnLkPlQ@public.gmane.org wrote:
> Please don’t create more than one place for discussion. I’m happy
> to do either Google groups or a discourse server, but not both.

>> On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 5:16:57 PM UTC-8 John MacFarlane
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> One big drawback is that you would need a GitHub account to
>>> contribute.
>>> 
>>> By contrast, it's possible to ask a question using this group
>>> without signing up for a new account. You can even do it by sending
>>> an email.

In addition to excellent points others already made, I personally do not
think that, just because Microsoft is in full swing on their
"Extend"[0] phase, that we[1] need to oblige them in any way...

In fact moving discussion from mailing list format (which is quite open
and standardized) onto a proprietary platform[2] would be a huge step
backwards IMO, for all reasons already mentioned, and more.

Cheers,
TRS-80

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish

[1] I use the royal "we" liberally, as I am quite new member on this
list.

[2] I am aware the irony the mailing list is hosted at Google Groups;
however I consider this an just implementation detail; as John already
pointed out, you can still interact in the "normal" way without
requiring a Google account (this is what I do in fact).

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Re: AW: Thoughts on GitHub Discussions?

[Kolen Cheung]

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I think as long as the mentality is to replace Google Groups with GitHub Discussions, we should just stop even considering GitHub discussions. It currently is not such a replacement, and will never be.

Regarding email use, I have all the GitHub notifications directed to my email too. So I can see how many spam there are from the pandoc issue tracker. Not a lot, but not negligible.

Historically pandoc has Google groups, and it has been mentioned in the website this should be the de facto place for pandoc questions, but there’s also a new bleed of pandoc users that just surf over GitHub and don’t even go to pandoc.org. Those are the GitHub issue spammers.

So the mentality here is if you can’t beat them, join them. Give them a place to put non issue on GitHub directly.
On Dec 11, 2020, 9:09 AM -0800, TRS-80 <lists.trs-80-C7oIis/24ff2zvSPaPeTFA@public.gmane.org>, wrote:
> On 2020-12-11 11:17, denis.maier-FfwAq0itz3ofv37vnLkPlQ@public.gmane.org wrote:
> > Please don’t create more than one place for discussion. I’m happy
> > to do either Google groups or a discourse server, but not both.
>
> > > On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 5:16:57 PM UTC-8 John MacFarlane
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > One big drawback is that you would need a GitHub account to
> > > > contribute.
> > > >
> > > > By contrast, it's possible to ask a question using this group
> > > > without signing up for a new account. You can even do it by sending
> > > > an email.
>
> In addition to excellent points others already made, I personally do not
> think that, just because Microsoft is in full swing on their
> "Extend"[0] phase, that we[1] need to oblige them in any way...
>
> In fact moving discussion from mailing list format (which is quite open
> and standardized) onto a proprietary platform[2] would be a huge step
> backwards IMO, for all reasons already mentioned, and more.
>
> Cheers,
> TRS-80
>
> [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
>
> [1] I use the royal "we" liberally, as I am quite new member on this
> list.
>
> [2] I am aware the irony the mailing list is hosted at Google Groups;
> however I consider this an just implementation detail; as John already
> pointed out, you can still interact in the "normal" way without
> requiring a Google account (this is what I do in fact).
>
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Re: AW: Thoughts on GitHub Discussions?

[Kolen Cheung]

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By the way, I don’t know if you know this, but on GitHub an issue can be converted to a discussion. That’s the anti spam feature I was talking about.
On Dec 11, 2020, 9:09 AM -0800, TRS-80 <lists.trs-80-C7oIis/24ff2zvSPaPeTFA@public.gmane.org>, wrote:
> On 2020-12-11 11:17, denis.maier-FfwAq0itz3ofv37vnLkPlQ@public.gmane.org wrote:
> > Please don’t create more than one place for discussion. I’m happy
> > to do either Google groups or a discourse server, but not both.
>
> > > On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 5:16:57 PM UTC-8 John MacFarlane
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > One big drawback is that you would need a GitHub account to
> > > > contribute.
> > > >
> > > > By contrast, it's possible to ask a question using this group
> > > > without signing up for a new account. You can even do it by sending
> > > > an email.
>
> In addition to excellent points others already made, I personally do not
> think that, just because Microsoft is in full swing on their
> "Extend"[0] phase, that we[1] need to oblige them in any way...
>
> In fact moving discussion from mailing list format (which is quite open
> and standardized) onto a proprietary platform[2] would be a huge step
> backwards IMO, for all reasons already mentioned, and more.
>
> Cheers,
> TRS-80
>
> [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
>
> [1] I use the royal "we" liberally, as I am quite new member on this
> list.
>
> [2] I am aware the irony the mailing list is hosted at Google Groups;
> however I consider this an just implementation detail; as John already
> pointed out, you can still interact in the "normal" way without
> requiring a Google account (this is what I do in fact).
>
> --
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Re: AW: Thoughts on GitHub Discussions?

[John MacFarlane]

Kolen Cheung <christian.kolen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> By the way, I don’t know if you know this, but on GitHub an issue can be converted to a discussion. That’s the anti spam feature I was talking about.

That's interesting, didn't know. I still think, though, that
it's probably best not to fragment discussions into two different
places.

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