Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Lloyd R. Prentice]

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Pandoc is an extraordinary productivity tool for indie publishers.  But indie publishers of fiction and non-fiction books need a detailed step-by-step tutorial to help them publish beautiful books. 

So who can help me create one?

Idea:

1. Download Jane Austin’s Pride and Prejudice from Project Gutenberg. Pride and Prejudice is at the top of Project Gutenberg’s popularity list:

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?sort_order=downloads

2. Show how to convert from eBook to Pandoc markdown.

3. Show in step-by-step detail how to create a beautiful PDF version with Pandoc.

4. Repeat with a public domain technical book that includes diagrams and computer code.

Ideally these tutorials would include book-design conventions and wisdom drawn from say:

https://ctan.org/pkg/memoir?lang=en

This project could generate a fairly lengthy document. In this case we could publish it on LeanPub with all proceeds going to further Pandoc development and maintenance.

Ideas and collaboration very welcome.

LRP

Sent from my iPad

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Joseph Zitt]

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One suggestion: I would start with a smaller book. Alice's Adventures in 
Wonderland, #5 on the list, might do well. It also has poetry, I believe, 
and some other peculiarities that might make for good examples.

On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 8:16:14 PM UTC+3 LRP wrote:

> Pandoc is an extraordinary productivity tool for indie publishers.  But 
> indie publishers of fiction and non-fiction books need a detailed 
> step-by-step tutorial to help them publish beautiful books. 
>
> So who can help me create one?
>
> Idea:
>
> 1. Download Jane Austin’s Pride and Prejudice from Project Gutenberg. 
> Pride and Prejudice is at the top of Project Gutenberg’s popularity list:
>
> https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?sort_order=downloads
>
> 2. Show how to convert from eBook to Pandoc markdown.
>
> 3. Show in step-by-step detail how to create a beautiful PDF version with 
> Pandoc.
>
> 4. Repeat with a public domain technical book that includes diagrams and 
> computer code.
>
> Ideally these tutorials would include book-design conventions and wisdom 
> drawn from say:
>
> https://ctan.org/pkg/memoir?lang=en
>
> This project could generate a fairly lengthy document. In this case we 
> could publish it on LeanPub with all proceeds going to further Pandoc 
> development and maintenance.
>
> Ideas and collaboration very welcome.
>
> LRP
>
> Sent from my iPad
>

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[John MacFarlane]

It's a good idea. I could help out. I've typeset two books with memoir.
Here's a start.

Step 1:

pandoc https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1342/1342-h/1342-h.htm -t commonmark-raw_html -f html -s -o PrideAndPrejudice.md

Step 2:  Edit md file, delete everything before Chapter 1.  Add

License
-------
\scriptsize


after the last paragraph of content and before the ```.

Step 3:  Add the following at the top of the file, with a blank
line following:

---
lang: en
title: Pride and Prejudice
author: Jane Austen
...

Step 4: Make the PDF!

pandoc PrideAndPrejudice.md -o PrideAndPrejudice.pdf --pdf-engine=xelatex -Vdocumentclass=memoir -Vmainfont='Hoefler Text' -Vfontsize=12pt -Vgeometry='papersize={6in,9in},centering,margin=0.75in' --shift-heading-level=-1 -Vheader-includes='\setsecnumdepth{none}' -Vheader-includes='\chapterstyle{dowding}' -Vheader-includes='\midsloppy' -Vheader-includes='\pagestyle{ruled}'





"Lloyd R. Prentice" <lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4jcM+WK4BI3xw@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Pandoc is an extraordinary productivity tool for indie publishers.  But indie publishers of fiction and non-fiction books need a detailed step-by-step tutorial to help them publish beautiful books. 
>
> So who can help me create one?
>
> Idea:
>
> 1. Download Jane Austin’s Pride and Prejudice from Project Gutenberg. Pride and Prejudice is at the top of Project Gutenberg’s popularity list:
>
> https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?sort_order=downloads
>
> 2. Show how to convert from eBook to Pandoc markdown.
>
> 3. Show in step-by-step detail how to create a beautiful PDF version with Pandoc.
>
> 4. Repeat with a public domain technical book that includes diagrams and computer code.
>
> Ideally these tutorials would include book-design conventions and wisdom drawn from say:
>
> https://ctan.org/pkg/memoir?lang=en
>
> This project could generate a fairly lengthy document. In this case we could publish it on LeanPub with all proceeds going to further Pandoc development and maintenance.
>
> Ideas and collaboration very welcome.
>
> LRP
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/3636BA4F-52F8-4423-9531-4AF96B2603E5%40writersglen.com.

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Joseph Zitt]

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> Step 4: Make the PDF!

> pandoc PrideAndPrejudice.md -o PrideAndPrejudice.pdf --pdf-engine=xelatex
-Vdocumentclass=memoir -Vmainfont='Hoefler Text' -Vfontsize=12pt
-Vgeometry='papersize={6in,9in},centering,margin=0.75in'
--shift-heading-level=-1 -Vheader-includes='\setsecnumdepth{none}'
-Vheader-includes='\chapterstyle{dowding}' -Vheader-includes='\midsloppy'
-Vheader-includes='\pagestyle{ruled}'

As seen by a relative newbie, that line's a bit terrifying -- but that's
OK! The trick would be for the tutorial to break it down so that by the
end, the reader understands what it does, and, most importantly, how and
why it does it.


On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 9:50 PM John MacFarlane <jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>
> It's a good idea. I could help out. I've typeset two books with memoir.
> Here's a start.
>
> Step 1:
>
> pandoc https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1342/1342-h/1342-h.htm -t
> commonmark-raw_html -f html -s -o PrideAndPrejudice.md
>
> Step 2:  Edit md file, delete everything before Chapter 1.  Add
>
> License
> -------
> \scriptsize
>
>
> after the last paragraph of content and before the ```.
>
> Step 3:  Add the following at the top of the file, with a blank
> line following:
>
> ---
> lang: en
> title: Pride and Prejudice
> author: Jane Austen
> ...
>
> Step 4: Make the PDF!
>
> pandoc PrideAndPrejudice.md -o PrideAndPrejudice.pdf --pdf-engine=xelatex
> -Vdocumentclass=memoir -Vmainfont='Hoefler Text' -Vfontsize=12pt
> -Vgeometry='papersize={6in,9in},centering,margin=0.75in'
> --shift-heading-level=-1 -Vheader-includes='\setsecnumdepth{none}'
> -Vheader-includes='\chapterstyle{dowding}' -Vheader-includes='\midsloppy'
> -Vheader-includes='\pagestyle{ruled}'
>
>
>
>
>
> "Lloyd R. Prentice" <lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4jcM+WK4BI3xw@public.gmane.org> writes:
>
> > Pandoc is an extraordinary productivity tool for indie publishers.  But
> indie publishers of fiction and non-fiction books need a detailed
> step-by-step tutorial to help them publish beautiful books.
> >
> > So who can help me create one?
> >
> > Idea:
> >
> > 1. Download Jane Austin’s Pride and Prejudice from Project Gutenberg.
> Pride and Prejudice is at the top of Project Gutenberg’s popularity list:
> >
> > https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?sort_order=downloads
> >
> > 2. Show how to convert from eBook to Pandoc markdown.
> >
> > 3. Show in step-by-step detail how to create a beautiful PDF version
> with Pandoc.
> >
> > 4. Repeat with a public domain technical book that includes diagrams and
> computer code.
> >
> > Ideally these tutorials would include book-design conventions and wisdom
> drawn from say:
> >
> > https://ctan.org/pkg/memoir?lang=en
> >
> > This project could generate a fairly lengthy document. In this case we
> could publish it on LeanPub with all proceeds going to further Pandoc
> development and maintenance.
> >
> > Ideas and collaboration very welcome.
> >
> > LRP
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/3636BA4F-52F8-4423-9531-4AF96B2603E5%40writersglen.com
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/m27drzfd3v.fsf%40MacBook-Pro.hsd1.ca.comcast.net
> .
>


-- 
Joseph Zitt :: http://www.josephzitt.com
"Write what you dream. Shoot what you can. Edit what you have." -- Unknown

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Leonard Rosenthol]

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Alternatively, all of those variables could be put in a .yaml file and then
the command line would just have a `-d`.  So all that complexity gets
hidden...

Leonard

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 4:02 PM Joseph Zitt <jzitt-MRAhuyli6BiLyEy2LckgMg@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> > Step 4: Make the PDF!
>
> > pandoc PrideAndPrejudice.md -o PrideAndPrejudice.pdf
> --pdf-engine=xelatex -Vdocumentclass=memoir -Vmainfont='Hoefler Text'
> -Vfontsize=12pt -Vgeometry='papersize={6in,9in},centering,margin=0.75in'
> --shift-heading-level=-1 -Vheader-includes='\setsecnumdepth{none}'
> -Vheader-includes='\chapterstyle{dowding}' -Vheader-includes='\midsloppy'
> -Vheader-includes='\pagestyle{ruled}'
>
> As seen by a relative newbie, that line's a bit terrifying -- but that's
> OK! The trick would be for the tutorial to break it down so that by the
> end, the reader understands what it does, and, most importantly, how and
> why it does it.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 9:50 PM John MacFarlane <jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> It's a good idea. I could help out. I've typeset two books with memoir.
>> Here's a start.
>>
>> Step 1:
>>
>> pandoc https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1342/1342-h/1342-h.htm -t
>> commonmark-raw_html -f html -s -o PrideAndPrejudice.md
>>
>> Step 2:  Edit md file, delete everything before Chapter 1.  Add
>>
>> License
>> -------
>> \scriptsize
>>
>>
>> after the last paragraph of content and before the ```.
>>
>> Step 3:  Add the following at the top of the file, with a blank
>> line following:
>>
>> ---
>> lang: en
>> title: Pride and Prejudice
>> author: Jane Austen
>> ...
>>
>> Step 4: Make the PDF!
>>
>> pandoc PrideAndPrejudice.md -o PrideAndPrejudice.pdf --pdf-engine=xelatex
>> -Vdocumentclass=memoir -Vmainfont='Hoefler Text' -Vfontsize=12pt
>> -Vgeometry='papersize={6in,9in},centering,margin=0.75in'
>> --shift-heading-level=-1 -Vheader-includes='\setsecnumdepth{none}'
>> -Vheader-includes='\chapterstyle{dowding}' -Vheader-includes='\midsloppy'
>> -Vheader-includes='\pagestyle{ruled}'
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Lloyd R. Prentice" <lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4jcM+WK4BI3xw@public.gmane.org> writes:
>>
>> > Pandoc is an extraordinary productivity tool for indie publishers.  But
>> indie publishers of fiction and non-fiction books need a detailed
>> step-by-step tutorial to help them publish beautiful books.
>> >
>> > So who can help me create one?
>> >
>> > Idea:
>> >
>> > 1. Download Jane Austin’s Pride and Prejudice from Project Gutenberg.
>> Pride and Prejudice is at the top of Project Gutenberg’s popularity list:
>> >
>> > https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?sort_order=downloads
>> >
>> > 2. Show how to convert from eBook to Pandoc markdown.
>> >
>> > 3. Show in step-by-step detail how to create a beautiful PDF version
>> with Pandoc.
>> >
>> > 4. Repeat with a public domain technical book that includes diagrams
>> and computer code.
>> >
>> > Ideally these tutorials would include book-design conventions and
>> wisdom drawn from say:
>> >
>> > https://ctan.org/pkg/memoir?lang=en
>> >
>> > This project could generate a fairly lengthy document. In this case we
>> could publish it on LeanPub with all proceeds going to further Pandoc
>> development and maintenance.
>> >
>> > Ideas and collaboration very welcome.
>> >
>> > LRP
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/3636BA4F-52F8-4423-9531-4AF96B2603E5%40writersglen.com
>> .
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "pandoc-discuss" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/m27drzfd3v.fsf%40MacBook-Pro.hsd1.ca.comcast.net
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
> Joseph Zitt :: http://www.josephzitt.com
> "Write what you dream. Shoot what you can. Edit what you have." -- Unknown
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CAGG3uu0enB4gWx42Ur3LA21h1h61%2BR51AJx5NEv6-D_RB2V5cg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[John MacFarlane]

Leonard Rosenthol <leonardr-bM6h3K5UM15l57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Alternatively, all of those variables could be put in a .yaml file and then
> the command line would just have a `-d`.  So all that complexity gets
> hidden...

Yes.  I normally do this.  I also normally put all of the LaTeX
stuff in a custom .sty or even .cls, rather than using
header-includes variables.

If you create a custom style or documentclass with the settings
appropriate for a book, then on the pandoc side it could be as
simple as:

pandoc PrideAndPrejudice.md -o PrideAndPrejudice.pdf --defaults book.yaml

book.yaml:
---
variables:
  documentclass: pandocbook
  classoptions:
  - papersize={6in,9in}
  - margin=0.75in
  - chapterstyle=dowding
  - pagestyle=ruled
  fontsize: 12pt
  mainfont: Hoefler Text
pdf-engine: xelatex
...

Alternatively, one could use a custom latex template and put the
customizations there. This would allow you to use the template
language to make customization even more intuitive, e.g.

---
template: pandocbook
pdf-engine: xelatex
variables:
  papersize: 6in,9in
  margin: 0.75in
  chapterstyle: dowding
  pagestyle: ruled
  fontsize: 12pt
  mainfont: Hoefler Text
  cover-image: flower.jpg
...

Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Lloyd R. Prentice]

Thank you, John,

I’m continuing to flesh out the outline I proposed, but no feedback yet from experts on the list. I’m hoping we can address the why as well as how-to of book design and production. This is an ambitious vision, but many among the 1.6 million self publishers struggle with basic skills.

As I see it, for this project to succeed we’ll need four areas of expertise:

* Book design
* LaTeX
* CSS
* Pandoc

I’m sure deep talent in all of these areas exists across the Pandoc community. With arguable exception of CSS, my own skills fall short of what we’ll need. So I’m hoping generous gurus will step up to contribute.

Among other things, it would be great to have polished templates—-good examples of beautiful fiction and another of a professional/academic non-fiction book—-to inspire our how-to narrative. This would enable us to talk about why as well as how.

I’ll do my best to coordinate collaborative efforts. But hope talented folks step up to complement your much appreciated contributions. 

If we can pull this off, I do believe an authoritative book published through Leanpub and maybe KDP can generate a revenue to help support Pandoc into the future.

Thanks,

LRP

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 10, 2020, at 2:32 PM, John MacFarlane <jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> Leonard Rosenthol <leonardr-bM6h3K5UM15l57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> writes:
> 
>> Alternatively, all of those variables could be put in a .yaml file and then
>> the command line would just have a `-d`.  So all that complexity gets
>> hidden...
> 
> Yes.  I normally do this.  I also normally put all of the LaTeX
> stuff in a custom .sty or even .cls, rather than using
> header-includes variables.
> 
> If you create a custom style or documentclass with the settings
> appropriate for a book, then on the pandoc side it could be as
> simple as:
> 
> pandoc PrideAndPrejudice.md -o PrideAndPrejudice.pdf --defaults book.yaml
> 
> book.yaml:
> ---
> variables:
>  documentclass: pandocbook
>  classoptions:
>  - papersize={6in,9in}
>  - margin=0.75in
>  - chapterstyle=dowding
>  - pagestyle=ruled
>  fontsize: 12pt
>  mainfont: Hoefler Text
> pdf-engine: xelatex
> ...
> 
> Alternatively, one could use a custom latex template and put the
> customizations there. This would allow you to use the template
> language to make customization even more intuitive, e.g.
> 
> ---
> template: pandocbook
> pdf-engine: xelatex
> variables:
>  papersize: 6in,9in
>  margin: 0.75in
>  chapterstyle: dowding
>  pagestyle: ruled
>  fontsize: 12pt
>  mainfont: Hoefler Text
>  cover-image: flower.jpg
> ...
> 

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Joseph Zitt]

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I have designed a few published books using LaTeX, though it's mostly been
trial and error plus stumbling about in the dark :-)

On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 11:29 PM Lloyd R. Prentice <lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4jcM+WK4BI3xw@public.gmane.org>
wrote:

> Thank you, John,
>
> I’m continuing to flesh out the outline I proposed, but no feedback yet
> from experts on the list. I’m hoping we can address the why as well as
> how-to of book design and production. This is an ambitious vision, but many
> among the 1.6 million self publishers struggle with basic skills.
>
> As I see it, for this project to succeed we’ll need four areas of
> expertise:
>
> * Book design
> * LaTeX
> * CSS
> * Pandoc
>
> I’m sure deep talent in all of these areas exists across the Pandoc
> community. With arguable exception of CSS, my own skills fall short of what
> we’ll need. So I’m hoping generous gurus will step up to contribute.
>
> Among other things, it would be great to have polished templates—-good
> examples of beautiful fiction and another of a professional/academic
> non-fiction book—-to inspire our how-to narrative. This would enable us to
> talk about why as well as how.
>
> I’ll do my best to coordinate collaborative efforts. But hope talented
> folks step up to complement your much appreciated contributions.
>
> If we can pull this off, I do believe an authoritative book published
> through Leanpub and maybe KDP can generate a revenue to help support Pandoc
> into the future.
>
> Thanks,
>
> LRP
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Oct 10, 2020, at 2:32 PM, John MacFarlane <jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> > Leonard Rosenthol <leonardr-bM6h3K5UM15l57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> writes:
> >
> >> Alternatively, all of those variables could be put in a .yaml file and
> then
> >> the command line would just have a `-d`.  So all that complexity gets
> >> hidden...
> >
> > Yes.  I normally do this.  I also normally put all of the LaTeX
> > stuff in a custom .sty or even .cls, rather than using
> > header-includes variables.
> >
> > If you create a custom style or documentclass with the settings
> > appropriate for a book, then on the pandoc side it could be as
> > simple as:
> >
> > pandoc PrideAndPrejudice.md -o PrideAndPrejudice.pdf --defaults book.yaml
> >
> > book.yaml:
> > ---
> > variables:
> >  documentclass: pandocbook
> >  classoptions:
> >  - papersize={6in,9in}
> >  - margin=0.75in
> >  - chapterstyle=dowding
> >  - pagestyle=ruled
> >  fontsize: 12pt
> >  mainfont: Hoefler Text
> > pdf-engine: xelatex
> > ...
> >
> > Alternatively, one could use a custom latex template and put the
> > customizations there. This would allow you to use the template
> > language to make customization even more intuitive, e.g.
> >
> > ---
> > template: pandocbook
> > pdf-engine: xelatex
> > variables:
> >  papersize: 6in,9in
> >  margin: 0.75in
> >  chapterstyle: dowding
> >  pagestyle: ruled
> >  fontsize: 12pt
> >  mainfont: Hoefler Text
> >  cover-image: flower.jpg
> > ...
> >
>
> --
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> "pandoc-discuss" group.
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> .
>


-- 
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"Write what you dream. Shoot what you can. Edit what you have." -- Unknown

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Pranesh Prakash]

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On Sunday, 11 October, 2020 at 1:59:07 am UTC+5:30 LRP wrote:

> As I see it, for this project to succeed we’ll need four areas of 
> expertise: 
>
> * Book design 
> * LaTeX 
> * CSS 
> * Pandoc 
>


You may wish to take a look at the Standard Ebooks project:
1. https://standardebooks.org/about
2. https://standardebooks.org/manual
3. https://github.com/standardebooks/tools

While they do not use Pandoc or LaTeX, they do use CSS (to create EPUBv2, 
EPUBv3, AZW3 and KEPUB files) and they do pay close attention to book 
design.

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Lloyd R. Prentice]

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Hi Pranesh,

Thanks for the links.

This suggests that we would profit by pulling together a resource list to focus our work. I’ll add your links to my straw man outline—would welcome other excellent sources covering book design, LaTeX, CSS, and Pandoc. Ideally we’ll want to winnow this list down to the best-of-the-best resources.

The next challenge will be to pull out, as succinctly as possible, the insights and wisdom that can help Pandoc users publish beautiful e- and print books as efficiently as possible.

These are challenging tasks that can easily spin out of control. Ideas of how to best organize this project are welcome.

Meanwhile, Pranesh, do you have time and energy to synthesize what our readers need to know about CSS to publish beautiful eBooks?

Thanks again,

LRP 

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 11, 2020, at 9:07 AM, Pranesh Prakash <the.solipsist-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sunday, 11 October, 2020 at 1:59:07 am UTC+5:30 LRP wrote:
>> As I see it, for this project to succeed we’ll need four areas of expertise: 
>> 
>> * Book design 
>> * LaTeX 
>> * CSS 
>> * Pandoc 
> 
> 
> You may wish to take a look at the Standard Ebooks project:
> 1. https://standardebooks.org/about
> 2. https://standardebooks.org/manual
> 3. https://github.com/standardebooks/tools
> 
> While they do not use Pandoc or LaTeX, they do use CSS (to create EPUBv2, EPUBv3, AZW3 and KEPUB files) and they do pay close attention to book design.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[iandol]

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Another route is via Pandoc > HTML+CSS > PDF using PrinceXML — they have a 
specialised set of information for book production and some 
samples: https://www.princexml.com/doc/prince-for-books/ — I think CSS is 
far more intuitive than the bizarre arcana of LaTeX that depends on layers 
and layers of knowledge. But then again, people have got LaTeX to work 
wonders...

On Sunday, 11 October 2020 at 22:24:41 UTC+8 LRP wrote:

> Hi Pranesh,
>
> Thanks for the links.
>
> This suggests that we would profit by pulling together a resource list to 
> focus our work. I’ll add your links to my straw man outline—would welcome 
> other excellent sources covering book design, LaTeX, CSS, and Pandoc. 
> Ideally we’ll want to winnow this list down to the best-of-the-best 
> resources.
>
> The next challenge will be to pull out, as succinctly as possible, the 
> insights and wisdom that can help Pandoc users publish beautiful e- and 
> print books as efficiently as possible.
>
> These are challenging tasks that can easily spin out of control. Ideas of 
> how to best organize this project are welcome.
>
> Meanwhile, Pranesh, do you have time and energy to synthesize what our 
> readers need to know about CSS to publish beautiful eBooks?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> LRP 
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 11, 2020, at 9:07 AM, Pranesh Prakash <the.so...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> On Sunday, 11 October, 2020 at 1:59:07 am UTC+5:30 LRP wrote:
>
>> As I see it, for this project to succeed we’ll need four areas of 
>> expertise: 
>>
>> * Book design 
>> * LaTeX 
>> * CSS 
>> * Pandoc 
>>
>
>
> You may wish to take a look at the Standard Ebooks project:
> 1. https://standardebooks.org/about
> 2. https://standardebooks.org/manual
> 3. https://github.com/standardebooks/tools
>
> While they do not use Pandoc or LaTeX, they do use CSS (to create EPUBv2, 
> EPUBv3, AZW3 and KEPUB files) and they do pay close attention to book 
> design.
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "pandoc-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/8063d9a0-8ddf-4a04-bed3-a4954dff690fn%40googlegroups.com 
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/8063d9a0-8ddf-4a04-bed3-a4954dff690fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
>

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[krulis....-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org]

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Well, correct me if I am wrong, but isnt this software only proprietary?
Eventhough I would be very interested working with this technology as a 
-personal-home-user-tinkerer- I dont think it is possible without investing 
in licence (with pretty remarkable price tag).
Samples look nice.

Dne pondělí 12. října 2020 v 11:28:41 UTC+2 uživatel iandol napsal:

> Another route is via Pandoc > HTML+CSS > PDF using PrinceXML — they have a 
> specialised set of information for book production and some samples: 
> https://www.princexml.com/doc/prince-for-books/ — I think CSS is far more 
> intuitive than the bizarre arcana of LaTeX that depends on layers and 
> layers of knowledge. But then again, people have got LaTeX to work 
> wonders...
>
> On Sunday, 11 October 2020 at 22:24:41 UTC+8 LRP wrote:
>
>> Hi Pranesh,
>>
>> Thanks for the links.
>>
>> This suggests that we would profit by pulling together a resource list to 
>> focus our work. I’ll add your links to my straw man outline—would welcome 
>> other excellent sources covering book design, LaTeX, CSS, and Pandoc. 
>> Ideally we’ll want to winnow this list down to the best-of-the-best 
>> resources.
>>
>> The next challenge will be to pull out, as succinctly as possible, the 
>> insights and wisdom that can help Pandoc users publish beautiful e- and 
>> print books as efficiently as possible.
>>
>> These are challenging tasks that can easily spin out of control. Ideas of 
>> how to best organize this project are welcome.
>>
>> Meanwhile, Pranesh, do you have time and energy to synthesize what our 
>> readers need to know about CSS to publish beautiful eBooks?
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> LRP 
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2020, at 9:07 AM, Pranesh Prakash <the.so...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> On Sunday, 11 October, 2020 at 1:59:07 am UTC+5:30 LRP wrote:
>>
>>> As I see it, for this project to succeed we’ll need four areas of 
>>> expertise: 
>>>
>>> * Book design 
>>> * LaTeX 
>>> * CSS 
>>> * Pandoc 
>>>
>>
>>
>> You may wish to take a look at the Standard Ebooks project:
>> 1. https://standardebooks.org/about
>> 2. https://standardebooks.org/manual
>> 3. https://github.com/standardebooks/tools
>>
>> While they do not use Pandoc or LaTeX, they do use CSS (to create EPUBv2, 
>> EPUBv3, AZW3 and KEPUB files) and they do pay close attention to book 
>> design.
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "pandoc-discuss" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/8063d9a0-8ddf-4a04-bed3-a4954dff690fn%40googlegroups.com 
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/8063d9a0-8ddf-4a04-bed3-a4954dff690fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Pranesh Prakash]

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On Monday, 12 October, 2020 at 7:36:53 pm UTC+5:30 krulis....-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org 
wrote:

> Well, correct me if I am wrong, but isnt this software only proprietary?
> Eventhough I would be very interested working with this technology as a 
> -personal-home-user-tinkerer- I dont think it is possible without investing 
> in licence (with pretty remarkable price tag).
> Samples look nice.
>

Yes, Prince is proprietary (gratis for non-commercial use), but it along 
with its CSS extensions, is super-powerful, as evidenced by the examples on 
the css4.pub page.[1] Interestingly, Håkon Wium Lie, the co-inventor of CSS 
/ former CTO of Opera / founding member of the Norwegian Pirate Party, is 
and has been the chairman of the company behind Prince for more than a 
decade. Lie & Bos's book on CSS was typeset using CSS all the way back in 
2005.[2]  One can only hope that eventually those extensions will make 
their way to CSS proper. Bert Bos has a put together a list of features 
needed to make CSS fit enough for print typesetting.[3]

[1]: https://css4.pub/
[2]: https://alistapart.com/article/boom/
[3]: https://www.w3.org/Style/2013/paged-media-tasks

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Lloyd R. Prentice]

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It would be interesting and maybe informative to see Pride and Prejudice and/or Alice in Wonderland rendered with different approaches along with details of how it was accomplished and time it took.

Best,

LRP

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 12, 2020, at 1:01 PM, Pranesh Prakash <the.solipsist-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Monday, 12 October, 2020 at 7:36:53 pm UTC+5:30 krulis....-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org wrote:
>> Well, correct me if I am wrong, but isnt this software only proprietary?
>> Eventhough I would be very interested working with this technology as a -personal-home-user-tinkerer- I dont think it is possible without investing in licence (with pretty remarkable price tag).
>> Samples look nice.
> 
> Yes, Prince is proprietary (gratis for non-commercial use), but it along with its CSS extensions, is super-powerful, as evidenced by the examples on the css4.pub page.[1] Interestingly, Håkon Wium Lie, the co-inventor of CSS / former CTO of Opera / founding member of the Norwegian Pirate Party, is and has been the chairman of the company behind Prince for more than a decade. Lie & Bos's book on CSS was typeset using CSS all the way back in 2005.[2]  One can only hope that eventually those extensions will make their way to CSS proper. Bert Bos has a put together a list of features needed to make CSS fit enough for print typesetting.[3]
> 
> [1]: https://css4.pub/
> [2]: https://alistapart.com/article/boom/
> [3]: https://www.w3.org/Style/2013/paged-media-tasks
> -- 
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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Joseph Zitt]

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I like this idea. That could really illustrate the difference between
various options.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:14 PM Lloyd R. Prentice <lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4jcM+WK4BI3xw@public.gmane.org>
wrote:

> It would be interesting and maybe informative to see Pride and Prejudice
> and/or Alice in Wonderland rendered with different approaches along with
> details of how it was accomplished and time it took.
>
> Best,
>
> LRP
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 12, 2020, at 1:01 PM, Pranesh Prakash <the.solipsist-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
>
> 
> On Monday, 12 October, 2020 at 7:36:53 pm UTC+5:30 krulis....-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
> wrote:
>
>> Well, correct me if I am wrong, but isnt this software only proprietary?
>> Eventhough I would be very interested working with this technology as a
>> -personal-home-user-tinkerer- I dont think it is possible without investing
>> in licence (with pretty remarkable price tag).
>> Samples look nice.
>>
>
> Yes, Prince is proprietary (gratis for non-commercial use), but it along
> with its CSS extensions, is super-powerful, as evidenced by the examples on
> the css4.pub page.[1] Interestingly, Håkon Wium Lie, the co-inventor of CSS
> / former CTO of Opera / founding member of the Norwegian Pirate Party, is
> and has been the chairman of the company behind Prince for more than a
> decade. Lie & Bos's book on CSS was typeset using CSS all the way back in
> 2005.[2]  One can only hope that eventually those extensions will make
> their way to CSS proper. Bert Bos has a put together a list of features
> needed to make CSS fit enough for print typesetting.[3]
>
> [1]: https://css4.pub/
> [2]: https://alistapart.com/article/boom/
> [3]: https://www.w3.org/Style/2013/paged-media-tasks
>
> --
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> .
>
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> .
>


-- 
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"Write what you dream. Shoot what you can. Edit what you have." -- Unknown

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Alan Tyree]

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I have used weasyprint to make ebooks. I would say that it is not quite as
complete as prince, but it is open source.

The only problem I have had with it is that the css "counter-reset: page;"
scheme does not work with weasyprint. It needs to be fixed so that
front-matter can be set up with small roman numerals, then reset to use
arabic numbers for the main text.

Except for that, it seems to have all the parts necessary for using the
HTML+CSS route for making good books. And, unlike prince, it is open source.

Cheers,
Alan



On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 at 06:17, Joseph Zitt <jzitt-MRAhuyli6BiLyEy2LckgMg@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I like this idea. That could really illustrate the difference between
> various options.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:14 PM Lloyd R. Prentice <lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4jcM+WK4BI3xw@public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
>
>> It would be interesting and maybe informative to see Pride and Prejudice
>> and/or Alice in Wonderland rendered with different approaches along with
>> details of how it was accomplished and time it took.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> LRP
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 1:01 PM, Pranesh Prakash <the.solipsist-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> On Monday, 12 October, 2020 at 7:36:53 pm UTC+5:30 krulis....-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, correct me if I am wrong, but isnt this software only proprietary?
>>> Eventhough I would be very interested working with this technology as a
>>> -personal-home-user-tinkerer- I dont think it is possible without investing
>>> in licence (with pretty remarkable price tag).
>>> Samples look nice.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, Prince is proprietary (gratis for non-commercial use), but it along
>> with its CSS extensions, is super-powerful, as evidenced by the examples on
>> the css4.pub page.[1] Interestingly, Håkon Wium Lie, the co-inventor of CSS
>> / former CTO of Opera / founding member of the Norwegian Pirate Party, is
>> and has been the chairman of the company behind Prince for more than a
>> decade. Lie & Bos's book on CSS was typeset using CSS all the way back in
>> 2005.[2]  One can only hope that eventually those extensions will make
>> their way to CSS proper. Bert Bos has a put together a list of features
>> needed to make CSS fit enough for print typesetting.[3]
>>
>> [1]: https://css4.pub/
>> [2]: https://alistapart.com/article/boom/
>> [3]: https://www.w3.org/Style/2013/paged-media-tasks
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "pandoc-discuss" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/fc9ba1ee-6f5b-4792-96fb-4d1e29eb567bn%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/fc9ba1ee-6f5b-4792-96fb-4d1e29eb567bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
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>> .
>>
>
>
> --
> Joseph Zitt :: http://www.josephzitt.com
> "Write what you dream. Shoot what you can. Edit what you have." -- Unknown
>
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> .
>


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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Alan Tyree]

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Oops. I meant printed books.

On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 at 06:59, Alan Tyree <alantyree-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I have used weasyprint to make ebooks. I would say that it is not quite as
> complete as prince, but it is open source.
>
> The only problem I have had with it is that the css "counter-reset: page;"
> scheme does not work with weasyprint. It needs to be fixed so that
> front-matter can be set up with small roman numerals, then reset to use
> arabic numbers for the main text.
>
> Except for that, it seems to have all the parts necessary for using the
> HTML+CSS route for making good books. And, unlike prince, it is open source.
>
> Cheers,
> Alan
>
>
>
> On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 at 06:17, Joseph Zitt <jzitt-MRAhuyli6BiLyEy2LckgMg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> I like this idea. That could really illustrate the difference between
>> various options.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:14 PM Lloyd R. Prentice <lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4hj7iBST8pzdg@public.gmane.orgm>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It would be interesting and maybe informative to see Pride and Prejudice
>>> and/or Alice in Wonderland rendered with different approaches along with
>>> details of how it was accomplished and time it took.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> LRP
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 1:01 PM, Pranesh Prakash <the.solipsist-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> On Monday, 12 October, 2020 at 7:36:53 pm UTC+5:30 krulis....-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, correct me if I am wrong, but isnt this software only proprietary?
>>>> Eventhough I would be very interested working with this technology as a
>>>> -personal-home-user-tinkerer- I dont think it is possible without investing
>>>> in licence (with pretty remarkable price tag).
>>>> Samples look nice.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, Prince is proprietary (gratis for non-commercial use), but it along
>>> with its CSS extensions, is super-powerful, as evidenced by the examples on
>>> the css4.pub page.[1] Interestingly, Håkon Wium Lie, the co-inventor of CSS
>>> / former CTO of Opera / founding member of the Norwegian Pirate Party, is
>>> and has been the chairman of the company behind Prince for more than a
>>> decade. Lie & Bos's book on CSS was typeset using CSS all the way back in
>>> 2005.[2]  One can only hope that eventually those extensions will make
>>> their way to CSS proper. Bert Bos has a put together a list of features
>>> needed to make CSS fit enough for print typesetting.[3]
>>>
>>> [1]: https://css4.pub/
>>> [2]: https://alistapart.com/article/boom/
>>> [3]: https://www.w3.org/Style/2013/paged-media-tasks
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/fc9ba1ee-6f5b-4792-96fb-4d1e29eb567bn%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/fc9ba1ee-6f5b-4792-96fb-4d1e29eb567bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
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>>> an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
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>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joseph Zitt :: http://www.josephzitt.com
>> "Write what you dream. Shoot what you can. Edit what you have." -- Unknown
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "pandoc-discuss" group.
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>> email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CAGG3uu1VqS%2BjHZ%2BcFA3Qcw%3DimteW%3DNjeX72o9zPq4SQWh6tZ1g%40mail.gmail.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pandoc-discuss/CAGG3uu1VqS%2BjHZ%2BcFA3Qcw%3DimteW%3DNjeX72o9zPq4SQWh6tZ1g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
> Alan L Tyree                    http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
>
>

-- 
Alan L Tyree                    http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Daniel Staal]

On 10/12/20 3:17 PM, Joseph Zitt wrote:
> I like this idea. That could really illustrate the difference between 
> various options.
> 
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:14 PM Lloyd R. Prentice 
> <lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4jcM+WK4BI3xw@public.gmane.org <mailto:lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4jcM+WK4BI3xw@public.gmane.org>> wrote:
> 
>>     It would be interesting and maybe informative to see Pride and
>>     Prejudice and/or Alice in Wonderland rendered with different
>>     approaches along with details of how it was accomplished and time it
>>     took.

One though: if this is supposed to be a guide for new users, there 
should probably be several 'end step's: One for a pure-pandoc solution 
that can be implemented with no other dependency installs, one 'this is 
gorgeous' solution with everything thrown in, and maybe one 
middle-of-the-road with a couple of extra niceties, but still has no 
more than one-two dependencies.

Then the guide can work through to each: Steps to get to the 
pure-solution, then show how to expand that, and then show just what the 
toolchain is fully capable of.

Daniel T. Staal

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Lloyd R. Prentice]

Hi Daniel,

The reader I have in mind is striving to self-publish a book that meets the production standards of a jaded bookseller. Or, if an eBook, that displays flawlessly across the many display device in reader hands.

I like your idea of several end steps if, as I understand, you mean alternative technical solutions. This suggests that we may need a companion website or GitHub repository to enable the reader to see results for themselves. However we pull it off, we do need examples of good design to inspire the reader and would welcome your proposed examples.

Our challenge, however, is to get from here to there. As first cut I would see focusing on the default LaTeX and CSS templates and giving the reader step-by-step overview of each parameter—what it does and how to apply it to achieve a beautiful design of their own creation. How can we push the defaults to the limits?

Many thanks,

LRP



Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 13, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Daniel Staal <DStaal-Jdbf3xiKgS8@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> On 10/12/20 3:17 PM, Joseph Zitt wrote:
>> I like this idea. That could really illustrate the difference between various options.
>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:14 PM Lloyd R. Prentice <lloyd@writersglen.com <mailto:lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4jcM+WK4BI3xw@public.gmane.org>> wrote:
>>>    It would be interesting and maybe informative to see Pride and
>>>    Prejudice and/or Alice in Wonderland rendered with different
>>>    approaches along with details of how it was accomplished and time it
>>>    took.
> 
> One though: if this is supposed to be a guide for new users, there should probably be several 'end step's: One for a pure-pandoc solution that can be implemented with no other dependency installs, one 'this is gorgeous' solution with everything thrown in, and maybe one middle-of-the-road with a couple of extra niceties, but still has no more than one-two dependencies.
> 
> Then the guide can work through to each: Steps to get to the pure-solution, then show how to expand that, and then show just what the toolchain is fully capable of.
> 
> Daniel T. Staal
> 
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> This email copyright the author.  Unless otherwise noted, you
> are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use
> the contents for non-commercial purposes.  This copyright will
> expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years,
> whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of
> local copyright law.
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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Gabriel Nützi]

Just to send some maybe unimportant 5c in: Maybe as working startpoint 
and test bench which is already a Pandoc-to-Latex/HTML workbench: See 
https://github.com/gabyx/TechnicalMarkdown. Tried to structure this 
project pretty clearly, and its pandoc only...

Would be cool to have a CSS Book setup there...

BR

Am 13.10.2020 um 17:10 schrieb Lloyd R. Prentice:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> The reader I have in mind is striving to self-publish a book that meets the production standards of a jaded bookseller. Or, if an eBook, that displays flawlessly across the many display device in reader hands.
>
> I like your idea of several end steps if, as I understand, you mean alternative technical solutions. This suggests that we may need a companion website or GitHub repository to enable the reader to see results for themselves. However we pull it off, we do need examples of good design to inspire the reader and would welcome your proposed examples.
>
> Our challenge, however, is to get from here to there. As first cut I would see focusing on the default LaTeX and CSS templates and giving the reader step-by-step overview of each parameter—what it does and how to apply it to achieve a beautiful design of their own creation. How can we push the defaults to the limits?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> LRP
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 13, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Daniel Staal <DStaal-Jdbf3xiKgS8@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 10/12/20 3:17 PM, Joseph Zitt wrote:
>>> I like this idea. That could really illustrate the difference between various options.
>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:14 PM Lloyd R. Prentice <lloyd@writersglen.com <mailto:lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4jcM+WK4BI3xw@public.gmane.org>> wrote:
>>>>     It would be interesting and maybe informative to see Pride and
>>>>     Prejudice and/or Alice in Wonderland rendered with different
>>>>     approaches along with details of how it was accomplished and time it
>>>>     took.
>> One though: if this is supposed to be a guide for new users, there should probably be several 'end step's: One for a pure-pandoc solution that can be implemented with no other dependency installs, one 'this is gorgeous' solution with everything thrown in, and maybe one middle-of-the-road with a couple of extra niceties, but still has no more than one-two dependencies.
>>
>> Then the guide can work through to each: Steps to get to the pure-solution, then show how to expand that, and then show just what the toolchain is fully capable of.
>>
>> Daniel T. Staal
>>
>> --
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> This email copyright the author.  Unless otherwise noted, you
>> are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use
>> the contents for non-commercial purposes.  This copyright will
>> expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years,
>> whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of
>> local copyright law.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[krulis....-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org]

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I second that idea.

I can put some hand in this at least for LaTeX, ConTeXt, with some grain of 
salt also for `docx` and `odt`. If you dont have anyone better ;).

Dne pondělí 12. října 2020 v 21:14:08 UTC+2 uživatel LRP napsal:

> It would be interesting and maybe informative to see Pride and Prejudice 
> and/or Alice in Wonderland rendered with different approaches along with 
> details of how it was accomplished and time it took.
>
> Best,
>
> LRP
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 12, 2020, at 1:01 PM, Pranesh Prakash <the.so...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> On Monday, 12 October, 2020 at 7:36:53 pm UTC+5:30 krulis....-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org 
> wrote:
>
>> Well, correct me if I am wrong, but isnt this software only proprietary?
>> Eventhough I would be very interested working with this technology as a 
>> -personal-home-user-tinkerer- I dont think it is possible without investing 
>> in licence (with pretty remarkable price tag).
>> Samples look nice.
>>
>
> Yes, Prince is proprietary (gratis for non-commercial use), but it along 
> with its CSS extensions, is super-powerful, as evidenced by the examples on 
> the css4.pub page.[1] Interestingly, Håkon Wium Lie, the co-inventor of CSS 
> / former CTO of Opera / founding member of the Norwegian Pirate Party, is 
> and has been the chairman of the company behind Prince for more than a 
> decade. Lie & Bos's book on CSS was typeset using CSS all the way back in 
> 2005.[2]  One can only hope that eventually those extensions will make 
> their way to CSS proper. Bert Bos has a put together a list of features 
> needed to make CSS fit enough for print typesetting.[3]
>
> [1]: https://css4.pub/
> [2]: https://alistapart.com/article/boom/
> [3]: https://www.w3.org/Style/2013/paged-media-tasks
>
> -- 
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "pandoc-discuss" group.
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>
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> .
>
>

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Lloyd R. Prentice]

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Hi Tomas,

Your experience and skills are heartily welcome. I can’t vouch that my own experience generalizes, but for me LaTeX/PDF styling are a major hurdle. 

My hope is that our book can provide indie publishers with sufficient conceptual understanding to create and implement professional-quality book designs. We need to do more than provide black-box recipes and say, “just do this.” We need to provide a framework that gives the publisher creative control over the many parameters of quality book design—both fiction and nonfiction.

It’s still not clear to me how to pull this off as a community project. But my assumption is that the design and technical skills are widely distributed across the community. Your LaTeX/ConTeXt experience could be an invaluable contribution.

I hope within a day or two to post a revision of the straw man outline I posted a week or so ago.  Among other things I’m striving to define more precisely intended readers and to provide a crisp definition of a “beautiful book.”

Many thanks,

LRP

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 13, 2020, at 3:19 AM, krulis....-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org <krulis.tomas.tk@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I second that idea.
> 
> I can put some hand in this at least for LaTeX, ConTeXt, with some grain of salt also for `docx` and `odt`. If you dont have anyone better ;).
> 
> Dne pondělí 12. října 2020 v 21:14:08 UTC+2 uživatel LRP napsal:
>> It would be interesting and maybe informative to see Pride and Prejudice and/or Alice in Wonderland rendered with different approaches along with details of how it was accomplished and time it took.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> LRP
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 1:01 PM, Pranesh Prakash <the.so...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> On Monday, 12 October, 2020 at 7:36:53 pm UTC+5:30 krulis....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Well, correct me if I am wrong, but isnt this software only proprietary?
>>>>> Eventhough I would be very interested working with this technology as a -personal-home-user-tinkerer- I dont think it is possible without investing in licence (with pretty remarkable price tag).
>>>>> Samples look nice.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, Prince is proprietary (gratis for non-commercial use), but it along with its CSS extensions, is super-powerful, as evidenced by the examples on the css4.pub page.[1] Interestingly, Håkon Wium Lie, the co-inventor of CSS / former CTO of Opera / founding member of the Norwegian Pirate Party, is and has been the chairman of the company behind Prince for more than a decade. Lie & Bos's book on CSS was typeset using CSS all the way back in 2005.[2]  One can only hope that eventually those extensions will make their way to CSS proper. Bert Bos has a put together a list of features needed to make CSS fit enough for print typesetting.[3]
>>>> 
>>>> [1]: https://css4.pub/
>>>> [2]: https://alistapart.com/article/boom/
>>>> [3]: https://www.w3.org/Style/2013/paged-media-tasks
>>> -- 
>> 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pandoc-discuss" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discus...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
>> 
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> 
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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

[Lloyd R. Prentice]

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Hi Joseph,

Alice in Wonderland would be fine with me. Re step 4: Absolutely! We need to know how to control every detail of quality book design.

Thanks John,

Your input will be invaluable. And I can’t thank you enough for Pandoc.

Perhaps we can trash out a detailed outline then take it from there. I’ll try to submit my straw-man outline later tonight or tomorrow.

Interesting facts: More than 1.6 million books were self-published in 2019.

http://www.bowker.com/news/2019/Self-Publishing-Grew-40-Percent-in-2018-New-Report--Reveals.html

LRP

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 9, 2020, at 1:16 PM, Lloyd R. Prentice <lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4jcM+WK4BI3xw@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Pandoc is an extraordinary productivity tool for indie publishers.  But indie publishers of fiction and non-fiction books need a detailed step-by-step tutorial to help them publish beautiful books. 
> 
> So who can help me create one?
> 
> Idea:
> 
> 1. Download Jane Austin’s Pride and Prejudice from Project Gutenberg. Pride and Prejudice is at the top of Project Gutenberg’s popularity list:
> 
> https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?sort_order=downloads
> 
> 2. Show how to convert from eBook to Pandoc markdown.
> 
> 3. Show in step-by-step detail how to create a beautiful PDF version with Pandoc.
> 
> 4. Repeat with a public domain technical book that includes diagrams and computer code.
> 
> Ideally these tutorials would include book-design conventions and wisdom drawn from say:
> 
> https://ctan.org/pkg/memoir?lang=en
> 
> This project could generate a fairly lengthy document. In this case we could publish it on LeanPub with all proceeds going to further Pandoc development and maintenance.
> 
> Ideas and collaboration very welcome.
> 
> LRP
> 
> Sent from my iPad

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Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial

['denismaier' via pandoc-discuss]

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Hi,that is a good idea.I just want to add that ConTeXt might be a reasonable path to beautiful books. There's an amazing series of blog posts here: https://dave.autonoma.ca/blog/2019/05/22/typesetting-markdown-part-1/When using ConTeXt you can also use pandoc to produce html files and typeset those directly,  see http://www.from-pandoc-to-context.tkBest,Denis
-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------Von: "Lloyd R. Prentice" <lloyd-l7gIAb2iU4jcM+WK4BI3xw@public.gmane.org> Datum: 09.10.20  22:22  (GMT+01:00) An: pandoc-discuss@googlegroups.com Betreff: Re: Markdown to Pandoc to beautiful books — we need a definitive step-by-step tutorial Hi Joseph,Alice in Wonderland would be fine with me. Re step 4: Absolutely! We need to know how to control every detail of quality book design.Thanks John,Your input will be invaluable. And I can’t thank you enough for Pandoc.Perhaps we can trash out a detailed outline then take it from there. I’ll try to submit my straw-man outline later tonight or tomorrow.Interesting facts: More than 1.6 million books were self-published in 2019.http://www.bowker.com/news/2019/Self-Publishing-Grew-40-Percent-in-2018-New-Report--Reveals.htmlLRPSent from my iPadOn Oct 9, 2020, at 1:16 PM, Lloyd R. Prentice <lloyd@writersglen.com> wrote:Pandoc is an extraordinary productivity tool for indie publishers.  But indie publishers of fiction and non-fiction books need a detailed step-by-step tutorial to help them publish beautiful books. So who can help me create one?Idea:1. Download Jane Austin’s Pride and Prejudice from Project Gutenberg. Pride and Prejudice is at the top of Project Gutenberg’s popularity list:https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?sort_order=downloads2. Show how to convert from eBook to Pandoc markdown.3. Show in step-by-step detail how to create a beautiful PDF version with Pandoc.4. Repeat with a public domain technical book that includes diagrams and computer code.Ideally these tutorials would include book-design conventions and wisdom drawn from say:https://ctan.org/pkg/memoir?lang=enThis project could generate a fairly lengthy document. In this case we could publish it on LeanPub with all proceeds going to further Pandoc development and maintenance.Ideas and collaboration very welcome.LRPSent from my iPad



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