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From: John MacFarlane <jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org>
To: Bastien DUMONT
	<bastien.dumont-VwIFZPTo/vqsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>,
	'Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss
	<pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: Error compiling with icu support / possible workaround?
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 16:38:55 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2h7kjoueo.fsf@MacBook-Pro.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YGylIXTe6M3FSBIl@localhost>


I just checked my 2006 Le Robert Micro: it has

cote < côte < côté

coté appears as a subheading of cote, so I'm not sure it's
clear from this how it is to be ordered.  Not inconsistent
with the French Academy anyway.

Bastien DUMONT <bastien.dumont-VwIFZPTo/vqsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Honestly, these are such subtleties that, as a native French speaker, I have no precise ideas about it. I would say that accents are only a secondary criterium for sorting (cote < côte < coteau). Actually the Wikipedia page about the French alphabet agrees with that: "diacritics and ligatures are taken into account only at a third level, after the second level (case). [...] In Quebec French diacritics are considered more important than case." (I hope my translation is not too bad.) Unfortunately they give no reference. As for the "last syllable" rule, I have never heard of it, but the French Academy's dictionary online has cote < côte < coté < côté (https://www.dictionnaire-academie.fr/article/A9C4445?history=2). Anyway I guess that it rarely applies. I will check a recent Robert whenever possible (maybe tomorrow): they introduced a lot of changes in 2010.
>
> The French Association for Normalization produced a norm in 1969 about proper names' sorting, but it is behind a paywall and I am not sure that it is really in use.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bastien
>
> Le Tuesday 06 April 2021 à 04:42:40PM, 'Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss a écrit :
>> Concerning French, I checked a few more sources, and some of them seem to hold different views on French collation: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabet_fran%C3%A7ais states that diacritics should be disregarded when sorting, except in Quebec French, where accented characters are to appear after their unaccented counterparts. No "last syllable" rule is mentioned at all. In addition, in a printed French dictionary, Le Nouveau Petit Robert (1994), I couldn’t find any explicit rules on sorting, but entries are ordered "cote < coté < côte < côté". Hopefully some native speakers of French will chime in here.
>>
>> As to supporting multiple collations, I tend to think that the default collation (which usually seems to follow the most recent rules for a given language) would usually be sufficient.
>>
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  reply	other threads:[~2021-04-06 23:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-03-21 13:04 'Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss
2021-03-22  5:55 ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]   ` <m25z1jpw9n.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-03-22 20:29     ` jcr
     [not found]       ` <5035db2e-16b9-4923-8e38-d95b81d27840n-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
2021-03-23 19:04         ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]           ` <m2o8f9ofmw.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-03-23 19:53             ` 'Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss
2021-03-25 19:45               ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]                 ` <m2pmznm2zk.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-04-04 18:52                   ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]                     ` <m2sg457ugn.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-04-05 23:17                       ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]                         ` <m21rbos4nd.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-04-06  9:21                           ` 'Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss
2021-04-06 16:18                             ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]                               ` <m27dlfqtd1.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-04-06 16:42                                 ` 'Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss
2021-04-06 18:14                                   ` Bastien DUMONT
2021-04-06 23:38                                     ` John MacFarlane [this message]
     [not found]                                       ` <m2h7kjoueo.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-04-07  7:52                                         ` BPJ
     [not found]                                           ` <CADAJKhBpFS7Mq7NriLc8wexqwwLsEy+9OmBiNWbPaMgYKy8jbw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2021-04-07  9:37                                             ` BPJ
2021-04-07  9:35                                   ` 'Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss
2021-04-07 10:02                                     ` Bastien DUMONT
2021-04-07 12:32                                     ` BPJ
2021-04-08  1:41                                     ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]                                       ` <m2wntdo8m2.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-04-08  2:23                                         ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]                                           ` <m2o8epo6p8.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-04-08  7:12                                             ` Bastien DUMONT
2021-04-09 15:34                                             ` John MacFarlane
2021-03-22  5:59 ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]   ` <m235wnpw3l.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-03-22  6:08     ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]       ` <m2wntzoh3n.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-03-22 14:29         ` 'Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss
2021-04-17 23:19           ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]             ` <m2eef8ebyx.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-04-19  9:54               ` 'Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss
2021-04-19 11:10                 ` Bastien DUMONT
2021-04-19 12:56                   ` 'Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss
2021-04-19 13:16                     ` Bastien DUMONT
2021-04-19 16:19                       ` John MacFarlane
2021-04-19 16:16                 ` John MacFarlane
     [not found]                   ` <m235vmdzbh.fsf-jF64zX8BO08an7k8zZ43ob9bIa4KchGshsV+eolpW18@public.gmane.org>
2021-04-19 16:31                     ` 'Nick Bart' via pandoc-discuss
2021-04-19 18:08                       ` John MacFarlane

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