From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/28218 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John MacFarlane Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: question on suppress-author citation variant Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 21:22:16 -0700 Message-ID: References: <8553e982-3a50-4c67-b94a-20796b539de1n@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35093"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Bruce D'Arcus , pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBCJZJHG45QDBBBN2R2CAMGQEWA7R6LA-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Sat Apr 24 06:22:31 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from mail-ot1-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1la9oN-000901-Ge for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 06:22:31 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-f61.google.com with SMTP id f19-20020a9d5f130000b0290289bfcbd479sf18705623oti.16 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 21:22:31 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1619238150; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=WgF6k0/pvomaU/asdftkIM5VSo0H9d2KJVXayqgJmpZdwbjBZKvJ8o5yJI2rKyE4tt 4O5XxgWh+I1Y5S7ODwi+cPkQGL7hXQYJW+Kcn2DSj5oxNLMo6O4w8qwCsu1aF7lMKuZE /0azUrt4SLt956ljp10HR1e2z+T5KVvB6Zh2YTu03jzBlL7f9cIZRpq5Jf6KAUq/nyzl fKBKDFYgLlZdfwueW+W3YgZMXD7/vzCeGOe3TZtCri4cHV2SY+PdAQ+LXTkYZ8BircDr 2AeQdE4MNhYq/mQ5PcEyFREX8zI/M/+qkVQciUSZd1KqrPgfBpCvHJvAcxuZe34eXf2F a2BQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:mime-version:message-id :date:references:in-reply-to:subject:to:from:sender:dkim-signature; bh=69uZozhD2By3auZyl0Thr/+0HD+qTlVZCXdR6DdvbOY=; b=px6QFqfsVZBpbWpTNgPnstHg/tMTuvozH/yqvuFX/gzwc4Pk/Ei+1kD0YtXz/VoNlC ctB6EnEeltfvifM9DfRi1bOr/plJx5pO8ow6OL8cYky0L5QlEKaUrcQ7W+2v4oMPtwHn z2F9RWnt+yk8+KafLRW47f3je5aHjvIxX18R+ERijS4s2Y4uvWfa3JBTGOJ+g4lx0R0Z 4vsj8WqigFVtgyTOE9swFenElgijfiMHmng0i2EObsSYDDPYxZYo8Iz1QxXEG0npPmWa 7BNrAJQz4BqZkAvBbH3Ewdo1SOf9a8gwR5jAaGV6WTTIBubLk3WG+54psJjKPHnrfSaI PqcA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@berkeley-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b="KJo79T3/"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=69uZozhD2By3auZyl0Thr/+0HD+qTlVZCXdR6DdvbOY=; b=LoAyv5sW7j8TF380DmgbUP8rHACH75FnjZitJ9vcxncdsLID64L4cdI93+3Id/pvqQ PgPnyX4ddGDzmanrHZ1q50sUTBHXytTAEcie4iTSQQy2pChhAIVfI6tKp4QdrUpHfqk6 BuSgZ1WE2jMUgA+EEGUgg/zKiQnDkdpxCmettZ7QaOV8n2sCmg3u00Z3+O72XDcBv1E9 +R3QU2YqcXoYrwsa6jM8n8X+ldq6CRkPvLBxkeii+vHQKF6rILwPvaqBFILa38qB8HhP OfKM7/DF9tW3pFTb0hbjaFlD4JgzqeZT9e1aX9Ai+gnGVJ8azMs6bNou4ApqYz2I8ilO y+pQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=69uZozhD2By3auZyl0Thr/+0HD+qTlVZCXdR6DdvbOY=; b=WBNR9LivWKz1yyVOKZ4SvqdvaKSpgcfiMba+AbiQ6DpN766cTX2iHVa2UiJbM8WVGR 7fxbbe43SM3zb1OONN3/sYq6GiizsK7N8ruHThRTg2a+0hVqFIehBthq8V0imNu3EcPZ f9904znCq0wSOKDQQg5QSwHdSz+zz3GnM/8LlaEcFxl3Q1iCHSDMAyxJOMVU7XFpso9D 2xhncSl3zlDYoyr+cYs0c0Ef8n4gHrhu0TJR4K3Hn4LbNi+j99hyuIeB+cbj+8Z9+qXA iDKbXamxvcmutrJXemzh7s1mt8EIWj4o1e4X/sFPwkgy6XtTv9sp5hOP14VcKUWmuWZP pFPg== Original-Sender: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5313PP5WmNf08LIobv+5Rzd/He8Fw+FrmOy+Z1opYhkT/crPNlCV veVAKjN1BXfAhrG6mOc3AiA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwmsnWST2ZV7m2WHpu/s2KVJLcSxoA9vyTxCovvWRSAfLWDl3UPSVWwIrBo29CxRA+WclbZYw== X-Received: by 2002:aca:b645:: with SMTP id g66mr6165825oif.64.1619238150540; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 21:22:30 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 2002:a4a:5147:: with SMTP id s68ls775577ooa.11.gmail; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 21:22:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a4a:b79a:: with SMTP id a26mr5198549oop.75.1619238148906; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 21:22:28 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1619238148; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=ZfUKfsBRiV+nJZ4Yhyhp/F1AuzYmB89OAYhD38CPL7NM0ZkFrxD0MBRO9cktCXkH7q +iV/Gn6fRfC/Zmr3gyubdS2W+o5JyimKzM2+b5AUj7uww6YlIxh10+euMS2kUhZnyDlf MxxRv6O3ri1kQHfwE4bvSO40SGOUsi26UEOq9NvZg1980Hgn+Onn/qISsvwQvK+pOhUN rZV4TTH2oFlcqRs0jrqItN/EYaR3kdWGiY2OrYeuiuFUo+EI4xc1BPaJdOpET7p7tgg2 JyqbtBBbkyxKTuJV6q0bmRPfJbzGrTzYSt9aXHe5LqB758WQ+IysW84KQsS9nn/Ayex6 C/WQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:to:from :dkim-signature; bh=UCOb3CMrGUgJFqBdeQ1Za2F/GWpg8L5TP/PBDYxf+64=; b=Q0ZLcshSWe6OULPzLaOEFp/fE2OnQwKkBd2Qb4O+6ZahersRR3Jb6s1eSpgHzNVGpL r1qcSOLERhkQqOqxpE81B01bSzHXgJBV8BIaMZObiuZGexYI32h5xzfu4pOfIoFuf28f CdgI0bOs3sM3BLLqN3bic+wu0qAvwRGyoQndsb6u4okA7KoFoe6quuDVmMGmJXQ2/sCG jKHe8tUs0rpIxTE1Wlg/BxZ/qEiMVzuZvPfIqjXnLPZoxv8Nd8ZGu/CUWDIJif2YNSSB LhuDTlkg7myYaBCdjWoB1W+L+hp3/PvmPd8xcY+EgSUO7iYLvq/qMHkesHZBzGVeLfPr NY/A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@berkeley-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b="KJo79T3/"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x1035.google.com (mail-pj1-x1035.google.com. [2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u14si1099328otg.0.2021.04.23.21.22.28 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 23 Apr 2021 21:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035; Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x1035.google.com with SMTP id nk8so10947321pjb.3 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 21:22:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:2acb:: with SMTP id i11mr7837952pjg.131.1619238147950; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 21:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from johnmacfarlane.net (li55-134.members.linode.com. [74.82.3.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y14sm5630046pfm.123.2021.04.23.21.22.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 23 Apr 2021 21:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by johnmacfarlane.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 59F9AA231; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 00:22:16 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@berkeley-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b="KJo79T3/"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.text.pandoc:28218 Archived-At: I do think that conceptually, suppress-author makes more sense on the whole citation rather than on individual citation-items. The way pandoc does things is derived from ancient lore from pandoc-citeproc, and I think some of the thinking behind it may be hard to recover now. We reduce an "in-text" citation like "Jones (1989, p. 33)" to a combination author-only + suppress-author But really that whole combination should be the thing you specify on the citation.