Why Calibri 10pt in Word blockquote?

Why Calibri 10pt in Word blockquote?

[Joseph Reagle]

When I create Word docs from markdown, I often cringe at the Calibri 10pt font for blockquote and wonder about its origins. Is there a reason we don't follow a standard convention from Chicago, APA, or MLA? I don't think any of those change the font family, and certainly don't change the font size by 2pt. They often change the left margin, and might change the spacing if the body is using more than single-space.

(I know I can use my own `--reference-doc` but then it takes work to update and this just seems so odd.)

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Re: Why Calibri 10pt in Word blockquote?

[John MacFarlane]

Lots of academic books use a smaller font for block quotes (and without
changing the margin).

However, the choice to change typeface is odd.  I don't recall
whether there was a reason for that.  I may have been basing this
on some kind of standard Word style?

I would't mind changing it, in any case.

Joseph Reagle <joseph.2011-T1oY19WcHSwdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> writes:

> When I create Word docs from markdown, I often cringe at the Calibri 10pt font for blockquote and wonder about its origins. Is there a reason we don't follow a standard convention from Chicago, APA, or MLA? I don't think any of those change the font family, and certainly don't change the font size by 2pt. They often change the left margin, and might change the spacing if the body is using more than single-space.
>
> (I know I can use my own `--reference-doc` but then it takes work to update and this just seems so odd.)
>
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Re: Why Calibri 10pt in Word blockquote?

[Joseph Reagle]

On 9/26/19 5:58 PM, John MacFarlane wrote:
> Lots of academic books use a smaller font for block quotes (and
> without changing the margin).

Agreed. MIT Press uses a smaller font when typeset. However, from
authors, they and most publishers I've encountered want simple
formatting: "12-point type Times New Roman"; "Use the indent function,
not tabs, for setting off block quotations"; "do not use Calibri or
Cambria [for figures]" [1]. They then format it.

[1]: https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/inline-files/author_guidelines_extended_1-18.pdf

I suppose it's a question of whether people conceive the docx of being
input to other formatting or the final product. I prefer the former,
and even if there's an argument for the latter, the current design is
odd. Another example, H2 is the same size H1 (Calibri 16pt) and
lighter/brighter, which, to my eye, gives it a higher priority.

> I would't mind changing it, in any case.

I think I'd recommend:

- blockquote
	- definitely same font type; 
	- definitely 0.5" left margin
	- recommend same size; 
- headings: 
	- no color changes, but proportionate font size changes and/or use
	  of italics

Re: Why Calibri 10pt in Word blockquote?

[Joseph Reagle]

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On 9/27/19 8:36 AM, Joseph Reagle wrote:
> I think I'd recommend:
> - blockquote
>       - definitely same font type;
>       - definitely 0.5" left margin
>       - recommend same size;
> - headings:
>       - no color changes, but proportionate font size changes and/or
>       use of italics

I've attached a reference.docx with minimal tweaks toward the above. Is ODT supposed to have a equivalent structure/styling? (When I open custom-reference.odt -- in Word -- I don't see the similar exemplars that the docx helpfully provides.)


Should people be open to Chicago or APA heading styling:

# APA

https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/apa_style/apa_formatting_and_style_guide/apa_headings_and_seriation.html

1. Centered, Boldface, Uppercase and Lowercase Headings
2. Left-aligned, Boldface, Uppercase and Lowercase Heading
3. Indented, boldface, lowercase heading with a period.
4. Indented, boldface, italicized, lowercase heading with a period.
5. Indented, italicized, lowercase heading with a period.

# Chicago/Turabian

https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/chicago_manual_17th_edition/cmos_formatting_and_style_guide/general_format.html

1. Centered, Boldface or Italic Type, Headline-style Capitalization
2. Centered, Regular Type, Headline-style Capitalization
3. Flush Left, Boldface or Italic Type, Headline-style Capitalization
4. Flush left, roman type, sentence-style capitalization
5. Run in at beginning of paragraph (no blank line after), boldface or italic type, sentence-style capitalization, terminal period.

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Re: Why Calibri 10pt in Word blockquote?

[John MacFarlane]

Why don't you submit an issue on our GitHub tracker with these
suggestions, so they don't get lost?  They can be discussed
further there.

Joseph Reagle <joseph.2011-T1oY19WcHSwdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> writes:

> On 9/27/19 8:36 AM, Joseph Reagle wrote:
>> I think I'd recommend:
>> - blockquote
>>       - definitely same font type;
>>       - definitely 0.5" left margin
>>       - recommend same size;
>> - headings:
>>       - no color changes, but proportionate font size changes and/or
>>       use of italics
>
> I've attached a reference.docx with minimal tweaks toward the above. Is ODT supposed to have a equivalent structure/styling? (When I open custom-reference.odt -- in Word -- I don't see the similar exemplars that the docx helpfully provides.)
>
>
> Should people be open to Chicago or APA heading styling:
>
> # APA
>
> https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/apa_style/apa_formatting_and_style_guide/apa_headings_and_seriation.html
>
> 1. Centered, Boldface, Uppercase and Lowercase Headings
> 2. Left-aligned, Boldface, Uppercase and Lowercase Heading
> 3. Indented, boldface, lowercase heading with a period.
> 4. Indented, boldface, italicized, lowercase heading with a period.
> 5. Indented, italicized, lowercase heading with a period.
>
> # Chicago/Turabian
>
> https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/chicago_manual_17th_edition/cmos_formatting_and_style_guide/general_format.html
>
> 1. Centered, Boldface or Italic Type, Headline-style Capitalization
> 2. Centered, Regular Type, Headline-style Capitalization
> 3. Flush Left, Boldface or Italic Type, Headline-style Capitalization
> 4. Flush left, roman type, sentence-style capitalization
> 5. Run in at beginning of paragraph (no blank line after), boldface or italic type, sentence-style capitalization, terminal period.
>
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Re: Why Calibri 10pt in Word blockquote?

[John MacFarlane]

Added issue at https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/issues/5883


John MacFarlane <jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Why don't you submit an issue on our GitHub tracker with these
> suggestions, so they don't get lost?  They can be discussed
> further there.
>
> Joseph Reagle <joseph.2011-T1oY19WcHSwdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> writes:
>
>> On 9/27/19 8:36 AM, Joseph Reagle wrote:
>>> I think I'd recommend:
>>> - blockquote
>>>       - definitely same font type;
>>>       - definitely 0.5" left margin
>>>       - recommend same size;
>>> - headings:
>>>       - no color changes, but proportionate font size changes and/or
>>>       use of italics
>>
>> I've attached a reference.docx with minimal tweaks toward the above. Is ODT supposed to have a equivalent structure/styling? (When I open custom-reference.odt -- in Word -- I don't see the similar exemplars that the docx helpfully provides.)
>>
>>
>> Should people be open to Chicago or APA heading styling:
>>
>> # APA
>>
>> https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/apa_style/apa_formatting_and_style_guide/apa_headings_and_seriation.html
>>
>> 1. Centered, Boldface, Uppercase and Lowercase Headings
>> 2. Left-aligned, Boldface, Uppercase and Lowercase Heading
>> 3. Indented, boldface, lowercase heading with a period.
>> 4. Indented, boldface, italicized, lowercase heading with a period.
>> 5. Indented, italicized, lowercase heading with a period.
>>
>> # Chicago/Turabian
>>
>> https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/chicago_manual_17th_edition/cmos_formatting_and_style_guide/general_format.html
>>
>> 1. Centered, Boldface or Italic Type, Headline-style Capitalization
>> 2. Centered, Regular Type, Headline-style Capitalization
>> 3. Flush Left, Boldface or Italic Type, Headline-style Capitalization
>> 4. Flush left, roman type, sentence-style capitalization
>> 5. Run in at beginning of paragraph (no blank line after), boldface or italic type, sentence-style capitalization, terminal period.
>>
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>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pandoc-discuss+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org
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