From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.text.pandoc/26791 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John MacFarlane Newsgroups: gmane.text.pandoc Subject: Re: Formatting of "ibid" in v2.11.x Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 10:01:07 -0800 Message-ID: References: <965d161d-db68-439f-acab-c035c89ec0dfn@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39664"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Joshua , pandoc-discuss Original-X-From: pandoc-discuss+bncBCJZJHG45QDBB4ONWD6QKGQE4BNUJUQ-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 19:01:25 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from mail-ot1-f56.google.com ([209.85.210.56]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kcuQu-000ACv-W7 for gtp-pandoc-discuss@m.gmane-mx.org; 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[74.82.3.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p19sm3184111pjv.32.2020.11.11.10.01.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 11 Nov 2020 10:01:19 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by johnmacfarlane.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EE13BA18A; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 13:01:07 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <965d161d-db68-439f-acab-c035c89ec0dfn-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> X-Original-Sender: jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@berkeley-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=L8X6OsHt; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jgm-TVLZxgkOlNX2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list pandoc-discuss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact pandoc-discuss+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1007024079513 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.text.pandoc:26791 Archived-At: Joshua writes: > (This is a followup to "Removing parentheses around citations in > footnotes": *thank you so much* for the fix there. The behavior I'm > noticing now is different enough that I thought it worth a separate thread.) > > There seems to be an issue with "ibid." I'm using > chicago-note-bibliography-with-ibid.csl and a dummy file as an example. > Here's what I get with v2.11.1.1: > [1] Dodds, *Euripedes*; see also Augustine, *The City of God*. > [2] Augustine, *The City of God*, 72. > [3] Augustine, ibid, 46. > Note that there are two problems here: (1) it repeats the source in note 2 > instead of using "ibid", It's not clear that's a problem. Indeed, we made a change to get just this behavior. See https://github.com/jgm/citeproc/commit/5aafa0e58ce37d56677bf88f52c4e6591e867703 https://github.com/jgm/pandoc#6813 https://github.com/citation-style-language/documentation#121 According to the spec, ibid is supposed to be triggered only when the cited item (a) immediately follows another cite to the same source within the same citation or (b) the previous citation "consists of a single cite referencing the same item." In this case there is some ambiguity about whether (b) is satisfied -- technically, it is, because the previous citation is just "Augustine, The City of God." However, that in-text citation occurs in a note with another citation, such that the whole thing is indistinguishable from a note citation containing the two items. So we treat the item as not a "single cite" in this case. > and (2) it repeats the author in note 3. That's because (I assume) you've used an author-in-text citation form, which always prints the author. Note the difference between blah blah [@augustine:city]. and blah blah^[@augustine:city]. IN the first case you have a normal citation, and the author name will be suppressed. In the second case, you have a footnote with an author-in-text citation. We need this behavior because you might say "@augustine:city says blah" in the main text, and we'd want to get "Augustine(1) says blah" with a note "(1) Ibid." This structure (author name + note with "ibid") gets transformed to "Augustine, ibid." when it is found within a note.