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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM>
To: Supervision <supervision@list.skarnet.org>
Subject: Re: Essex: A simple command line interface for managing s6 services, using the s6 toolset
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:54:49 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <158d0032-fba1-9a70-056f-546136cd3630@NTLWorld.COM> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAO4D9E=F==cHUuV0P3mANHQvQVhVU_DBWjXvO6rkaAVtxi86Qg@mail.gmail.com>

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The |cat| subcommand is the one that seems to get most people.  I have 
seen more objections to that in systemd's |systemctl| than to any of the 
others, because it really isn't concatenation as people are used to.  I 
provide it in my toolset because I provide migration paths for people 
familiar with systemd.  I would not have chosen |cat| myself, if I had 
had the choice.  (It is actually |grep| under the covers, not |cat|, for 
starters.)  If you are /not/ looking to have similar commands as a 
systemd migration path, which seems to be the case from the other 
subcommands that you have, you would probably do well to come up with a 
better name than |cat|.

I went with |reset| rather than |sync|. |preset| sets the /enable/ state 
from configuration information. |reset| sets the /start/ state from 
configuration information, and as the manual says can be thought of as 
"reset to however the service is configured to be at bootstrap" with 
respect to start/stop. |sync| is not a bad name, but |system-control| 
<http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/system-control.xml> can 
do /system/-level stuff (e.g. |poweroff|) as well as /service/-level 
stuff, and there is a definite quite different meaning to |sync| when 
one is operating at system level which would not be a good idea to 
overlap.  You're providing service management and not system management, 
and contrastingly are probably alright here.

Your |reload| is not what people have come to know and to think of by 
that name, and will probably confuse people. What people have come to 
know by that name is sending a "reload" signal (of some kind, the exact 
signal varies) to the service telling the service to /keep running/ but 
reload stuff. What you have is more akin to what people know as 
|condrestart| or |try-restart|, although it is not quite those either, 
because (for one thing) they do not have the side-effect of starting 
currently stopped services as your |reload| subcommand does.  See the 
Debian /Policy Manual/ 
<https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html#writing-the-scripts> 
and the Fedora wiki 
<https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL:SysVInitScripts?rd=Packaging:SysVInitScript#Required_Actions> 
for the long standing meanings of the |try-restart| and |reload| 
subcommands.

Placing the generation of the information that your |reload| operates on 
actually in the |run| script itself is a bit of a layering violation.  
Really, a framework to detect changes to |run| scripts should have no 
effect on the |run| scripts contents themselves, certainly not the 
requirement that they be modified to inject special extra commands.  You 
end up with user problems, with users setting up vanilla |run| scripts 
that they get from elsewhere 
<http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/creating-bundles.html#collections> 
and then not being able to successfully employ your tools on top of 
that.  You end up with mechanism problems, with a /single change/ to a 
|run| script resulting in potentially /repeated/ termination signals (if 
|reload| is called more than once, which people inevitably /will/ do) 
until the part of the |run| script that regenerates the signature 
actually re-runs, and takes.

Observe how I designed service bundles.  They are layered on top of 
|supervise/| and |service/| directories.  Before/after orderings, 
wants/conflicts dependencies, and the rest are all /outwith/ the 
scripts, and do not require modifying them.  Only |system-control| has 
dealings in them.  The scripts, the lower-level |service-control| 
<http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/service-control.xml>/|svc|, 
and indeed the |service-manager| 
<http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/service-manager.xml> 
itself, have no notion of /any/ of that.  Indeed, it is one of /two/ 
ways of deciding what services to run, the other of which would be 
adversely affected if all of the scripts had to incorporate tooling for 
the first mechanism.  Maintaining layering allows drop-in replacement, 
and the administrator a choice of the |system-control| way or a 
daemontools-style |service-dt-scanner| 
<http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/service-dt-scanner.xml>/|svscan| 
way.

Maintaining layering allows further forms of drop-in replacement, too.  
My nosh toolset does not require that |run| scripts use the toolset's 
own chain-loading utilities.  It is just as happy with |run| scripts 
that use execline, or the perp tools, or runit's |chpst|.  The service 
manager only cares that it's a program that it can |fexecve()|. Whereas 
your tooling forces execline for everything, because you've built it 
around having a snippet of execline code embedded in an execline script 
as a part of the mechanism.

For a restart-if-the-|run|-script-has-changed framework, I suggest a 
similar approach.  The simplest approach is surely to have a per-service 
|Makefile.essex|, or a set of redo |.do| scripts, that embodies the 
if-file-X-changed-take-action-Y logic.  That is after all what those 
tools do.  Then it is a matter of running |make -f Makefile.essex 
restart-if-changed|, or |redo ||restart-if-changed|, against each 
service.  Or (alternatively) make a tool that knows about the extra 
|.md5| files and like |make| and |redo| does the whole of the job in one 
place, i.e. put all of the /(re-)generation/ logic into |EssexReload| 
/as well//as/ the testing logic.

Then when you fix it to also take into account changes to environment 
directories, which it does not at the moment (and so does not really 
restart /all/ services whose definitions have changed), your users will 
not have to go and laboriously fix all of their own |run| scripts to 
include even more extra commands.  Rather, your tooling fixes the 
|Makefile.essex| or the |restart-if-changed.do| file (or the 
|EssexReload| logic) that /belongs to it/, and the improvements happen 
as a matter of course.

You also should think about what happens if someone makes two services 
that share a single |service/| directory (but have their own 
|supervise/| directories), and about whether making all services write 
to files (with no precautionary checking that they are regular files) 
before they drop superuser privileges has introduced an exploitable 
security hole.  (One has to at least do the analysis, even if the answer 
turns out to be no.  I've been musing on the idea of a |--write-new| 
option to |fdredir| 
<http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/fdredir.xml> for this; 
although in 601 services as of version 1.39 only two even use it to 
write, they both write to files in |/run/| where only the superuser 
could place malicious links anyway, and one of them is obsoleted by the 
klogd-read service.  If the other were to become a problem, giving the 
dynamic Message Of The Day its own user account, that could only update 
that one file, would be an alternative solution.  Although a better 
solution yet is /not/ to have this as a service at all, consider it also 
obsolete, and use |/etc/system-control/convert/motd|.  The regeneration 
point for the Debian-style dynamic Message Of The Day is when a file has 
changed in |/etc/update-motd.d/| or the operating system has been 
upgraded, not bootstrap.)


      reply	other threads:[~2019-01-28 10:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 2+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-01-28  2:43 Andy Kluger
2019-01-28 10:54 ` Jonathan de Boyne Pollard [this message]

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